How old is this IDEAL lube/sizer?

[GARCIA]

Picked this up the other day and I have no idea as to how old it might be.

Sure would be great to get it back up and running.

Can I use Lyman sizeing dies and top punches? Or do I need something special?

Any help, information or anything about this old sizer would be appreciated!!

Tom

[badgeredd]

More knowledgable folks will chime in eventually but...

It looks to be nearly the same as the Lyman 45 so it would date back to the time before Ideal became Lyman. It appears to be very similar so I'd guess the top punches and sizing dies will interchange. Exactly when that was I don't know but it had to be over 50 years ago. I have an early Lyman that has much the same appearance except the base is integral with screw holes for mounting and of course it is orange.

Edd

[462]

That's a No.1 and any Lyman top punch and sizer die will work.

[GARCIA]

Has an old patent date of May 31'st 1892 on the reverse side of the handle.

You think LBT Blue soft would be too much for this old man?

Going to honor the late Elmer Keith but doing up some 358429's if it still works!!!

Tom

[scrapcan]

Yep 462 is right on. that is an ideal No.1 sizer. And it is like most you will ever see, it is missing the original lube wrench. I was lucky as mind has the wrench.

Garcia,

I have one set up running exactly what you want to use, excep tI am not using the 358429 bullet. What diameter doe sthe mould throw and what size will you be sizing them too?

[GARCIA]

manleyjt would you be kind enough to post a picture of the lube wrench so I can have some idea as too what to look for?

Drops from the NOE mold right at .359'ish and be sized to .358. Not going to put a lot of pressure on the old guy that is for sure.

Tom

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have a couple Lyman/Ideal #1 lubesizers just like the one in your photo.
I made a wrench using a piece of round stainless tubing that I formed a square
on one end, then welded the other end to a cheapo socket, works great !
the other one is an original Ideal wrench.
Good luck finding one.
If you make one, the inner square needs to be tapered to match the pressure screw.
Jon

PS. Yes they use Lyman sizers dies and top punches.



http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1809reduced.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1810reduced.jpg

[Pressman]

You got the bench clamp whis nearly always missing - congrats.
The No1 replaced the Armory press based lubesizer before the start od WWI and continued till it was replaced by the 45 in 1947.
I recently aquired a instruction sheet for this tool, undated, but very early. I have it available as a pdf if you are interested, e-mail me.
Ken
herters@netins.net

[midnight]

I have the same one. It uses all the dies and top punches my 450 does. I just use it for softer lubes. It has BAC in it and will probably stay that way. The 450 has a heater and the RCBS is just for SPG. Is this a great decadent country or what. Three sizers for three types of lube. That old #1 is a great old machine. You were lucky and got the clamp, I didn't. I'll bet Garcia is the guy who outbid me on E-Bay last week for that #1.

Bob

[scrapcan]

Garcia,

The wrench that John B showed is the correct one. If you are interested you should take Pressman up on the offer of the pdf, it is nice to see the paperwork of the same vintage.

[GARCIA]

midnight, I am sorry if you lost out on the infamous flea-bay.

Guys thanks to all for the info.

Nice to own a real piece of reloading history.

Really makes me wonder how many individuals actually used it.

Tom

[Green Frog]

I got lucky and found the wrench on flea-Bay. I had dealt with the seller before and in our post-auction settlement he mentioned that he almost didn't run it for fear no one would be interested. I finished my otherwise complete unit with that wrench and gladly paid $25 to do it! :D

Froggie

[shaggist]

I have the exact same luber/sizer, with clamp and without wrench. Go to your local welding supply house and ask them for a 'double ended box wrench' for acetylene gas cylinders & you will have what you need for the lube pressure screw. Remember, it tightens by turning counter-clockwise.

[Bradley]

Picked this up the other day and I have no idea as to how old it might be.

Sure would be great to get it back up and running.

Can I use Lyman sizeing dies and top punches? Or do I need something special?

Any help, information or anything about this old sizer would be appreciated!!

Tom

I think that the proper name for this is the 45. It was the second Ideal/Lyman lubricator/sizer. Their first one was the Armory Model which is very very hard to find.

[scrapcan]

Bradley,

The one shown is the ideal no.1 lubricator and sizer. I have an original set of paperwork for it in the files, Pressman has original documents also that he scanned. The 45 is a different model. See Ken's comments in Post #8, they are right on. Progression in models is armory, then No.1, then 45, then 4500.

It sounds like you are interested in the old tools also, you should take Ken up on the offer for a set of the scans.

[MtGun44]

This is the design that the Saeco is modeled after, but with their own incompatible die type.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Manley, ya missed one......

Armory, No. 1, 45, 450, 4500.

[scrapcan]

Good catch Al. Yep I always forget the 450.

So now we need to put dates to those models. for future reference.

[jrmartin1964]

The No1 replaced the Armory press based lubesizer before the start od WWI and continued till it was replaced by the 45 in 1947.herters@netins.net

Perhaps this is nit-picking, but that statement has bothered me for long enough now. I am unclear what evidence this chronology is based upon, but the Ideal handbooks tell a different story. The Ideal Bullet Lubricator and Sizer (later to be known as The No.1) appeared in Ideal's Handbook No.13 (c.1901). It remained as the ONLY lubricator and sizer cataloged until Handbook No.17 (c.1906), when it was formally renamed as the No.1, and the No.2 (based upon the Armory Press) was first illustrated. The No.1 and No.2 Lubricator and Sizers remained cataloged simultaneously in Ideal handbooks through Handbook No.30 (1931), with the No.2 disappearing with the publication of Handbook No.31 in 1935. As stated above, the No.1 did indeed continue on until 1947 or '48, when it was replaced by the No.45, which in turn was replaced by the 450 and finally the 4500.

Jim

[Pressman]

Oh my, JR that is 6 years ago. :wink: Anyway you are right.
I really need to get a complete set of the Ideal handbooks. I have a small number, some copies, but not enough to get the complete linage right.
I/we have been working on it with some newer finds, like an #2 sizer and a sizing only press. But, much more work needs to be done.
Can you help?
Ken

[Oklahoma Rebel]

what years were the 450's made in?

[jrmartin1964]

Oh my, JR that is 6 years ago. :wink: Anyway you are right.
I really need to get a complete set of the Ideal handbooks. I have a small number, some copies, but not enough to get the complete linage right.
I/we have been working on it with some newer finds, like an #2 sizer and a sizing only press. But, much more work needs to be done.
Can you help?
Ken

Ken,
I apologize for resurrecting such an old thread, but it's the little details that bug me! I have all of the Ideal handbooks from No.1 onward - a number of originals, the gaps filled in with copies and reprints - as well as the first three editions of the Cast Bullet handbooks. No antique Ideal tool makes it into my meager hoard without my having obsessively consulted the old handbooks for every scrap of information I can squeeze from them.

If there is any way I can contribute to the work you are doing, I will be more than happy to provide whatever assistance I can. Please don't hesitate to contact me.

Jim

[jrmartin1964]

what years were the 450's made in?

My resources for later Lyman products are somewhat limited, but it appears the 450 was first offered in either 1967 or '68. It was still in Lyman's catalog for 1999, but had been replaced by the 4500 in the 2003 catalog. I'm missing the catalogs for 2000 through 2002, so I can't nail it down any closer for you.

Hope this helps,
Jim