Auto Progressive Core Seating

[b2riesel]

Well boys and girls let me share a little picture with you and then do some explaining.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc454/b2riesel/btap.jpg


Yep, a 5 station setup for automating my 9mm to 40 S&W boolit making.

Station 1 is the expansion mandrel. It isn't seated but halfway down due to:

Station 2 is another expansion mandrel set deeper. Expanding in a two step process allows me to not lube the mandrels and this saves me time and effort.

I place lead bullet in upside down between Station 2 and Station 3. I was using a bullet feeder die but I can do it just as fast by hand and I wanted to do case expansion in a two step process.

Station 3 is the Core Seat Die. I seat the lead to about 1.5 tenths of an inch below the mouth.

Station 4 I bell over the end of the case mouth rounding the brass over the top of the lead.

Station 5 I use the Notch Punch and put a small XTP like notch in the top of the brass. It doesn't appear to be notched enough until after you swage it...then it really stands out. If I need it to be deeper I'll swage the boolit, notch it..and then gently swage it again.

Then it auto kicks into the hopper and every 50 or so I just dump them into a bigger container. I'm doing over 500 core seats an hour. The case feeder is a dream and as always the Hornady LNL AP is a joy to use. Thru the whole process there isn't much force being applied to any of the stations as long as the brass is annealed properly.

All these will be placed in the Rock Chucker and I can do several hundred an hour in the final swaging part of the process. A special thanks to BTSniper for getting me started and helping me with all the necessary parts for the above.

[ReloaderFred]

That's funny, since I was eyeing my LNL just last night as I was seating cores on my Rockchucker next to it and wondering if it would work. The only problem for me is I was weighing the cases and cores and adding shot as necessary. I wouldn't be able to do that if seating progressively.

Fred

[b2riesel]

I found that when I separate my brass by headstamp...and use my lead poured frosty...my overall weights vary only about a half a grain on average...however...if I mix my headstamps and use lead from the beginning of the pour...I'll vary as much as three grains...which is fine for me for 99% of my uses. I'll hand weigh each component....not only for the boolit but for powder and what not for competition use...but for shooting inside of 50 yards...I'm not seeing any deviation in point of impact that can truly be blamed on the ammo and not on me.

[BT Sniper]

Looks great. I may have to look into getting a set up like the Hornady LNL.

Where you able to make yourself a threaded ram and auto ejector yet? That will really speed up the bullet forming process. Let me know if you need any help or thoughts on design.

Station 4, the concaved punch, working out well for you?

Nice work, Swage On!

BTSniper

[b2riesel]

Yea, I used a design off this site to make me an auto ejector and I finally got around to center drilling and tapping my replacement ram for the RC IV. I made about 11,000 boolits using the rubber mallet before I got around to doing it though..heh.

Station 4's concave punch is working our pretty well for me. I think it allows me to put the notch where I want it...how I want it....it also keeps the mouth from flaring out when I swage and a case has more inside volume than most and you have that gap between the mouth and the lead. I just get a more uniform look overall when using it.

Now, using the threaded concave bottom punch when swaging is doing a great job rounding off the bottoms and when dropping into the 40 case with the bullet feeder they go in like butter. The CH4D cannalure tool is getting a work out. I need to sit down and redesign this thing though. I bet if I could put in a bolt lock with a tension spring to hold the knurling tool head in place....then use a cordless drill to turn it....nah...needs a motor...anyway...that part needs some automation.

[BT Sniper]

11,000 BULLETS !!!! THATS WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT !!!

:2gunsfiring_v1:

I'm not convinced a 40 S&W needs a cannalure grove. With a taper crimp we should be good to go. With our long bullets the chance of the bullet actually seating further into the case from recoil or feeding is pretty slim in my opinion.

If you can find a used corbin powered cannalure machine it will pay for it's self in the first bullet you grove, no kidding :)

I suppose I could be talked into putting the cannalure on the bullets for anyone in need for a small cost or percentage of bullets made :) Seriously though with over 10k worth of bullets to cannalure.......... just let me know it goes pretty quick with power. Say maybe 15% fee in bullets kept on my end or so. Somthing to think about.

Great post.

Swage on,

BT

[Intel6]

Do the same thing with my Dillon 650, works great with the case feeder.

Neal in AZ

[b2riesel]

BT, I don't cannalure the 40 S&W because they need it...I put the cannalure on there for cosmetic reasons. You know those you get where you have the small line ...a wrinkle under where the brass is pushing into where the lube groove was on the lead bullet? When I cannalure the boolit it presses that out and the boolit just looks pretty. I got about 300-400 of boolits with that groove after about 15,000 now..I just put them in a separate bin and cannalure when I feel like it...then throw them into my practice range stack.

I set aside 20 boxes of 1000 primers for my 40 S&W project.....and I just started box # 16. When I'm done I'll be asking you for the .45 cal dies...are you done yet? :) Then I'll be ready to make some .224.....and then...well then it's off to .308...yep...never done.

[BT Sniper]

Awesome! I knew you needed those dies more then I did :)

How are they shooting for you?

Should have some 45 cal dies avialble soon as well as some of my custom 308s. Things are going a bit slower then I had hoped for the custom BTSniper dies but things are in motion, just waiting for the custom reamers.

Swage On!

BTSniper

[b2riesel]

I think they shoot better than I can. Any deviation of point on target is me...not the boolit. When I first started shooting them I was afraid of compressed charges. I use Bullseye...and it's a pretty fluffy charge....and I've had absolutely no problems so far. I've gone from about 4.4 grains up to 5.1 grains and found a nice spot at 4.9 grains that I really like. The accuracy...the recoil...the sound...it just all feels right at 4.9 grains.

For those reading that shoot cast lead. One of the reasons I started swaging the jacketed boolits is due to the fact that I was having on and off leading problems with my cast boolits. As you know, the 40 S&W is basically shooting a .45 sized boolit at 9mm speeds and pressures....not quite..but close enough for this discussion. Instead of playing rocket scientist/ metallurgist I decided to simply make jacketed hollow points. Yes..I did get my lead problems figured out with the right blend of lead, tin, antimony but I assure you that process was much more difficult and time consuming than the process described above. Now I take my recycled range scrap with a BHN of somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 and just smelt it...pour it into muffin pans..and then when I'm ready I just drop the muffins into a 20lb Lee pot and go to town with a 6 banger 125-356-TC mold...I can knock out thousands very quickly. If my mold isn't making perfect boolits I still keep them...wrinkles and all in a separate stack...as long as they weigh near the same...within a grain...they are kept...I don't worry about slight cosmetic wrinkles....I just bam..bam..bam..bam go to town with the six banger mold and pump out my boolits. I don't have to go thru the process of lubing them..nor resizing them...they just get put upside down into a 9mm expanded case and turned into a beautiful boolit. Probably about the same amount of time for the JHP's as the cast TC's.

I still have probably 3000 rounds that have cast bullets. I've been loading my magazines with 13 cast...and the last two these JHP's....when I fire the last two they are doing a great job of removing any lead build up from the previous 13 rounds. At the end of the day I'll spray some cleaner down the barrel...shake dry...and fire off two magazines of 15 of the JHP's and the barrel is clean as can be except for powder residue...three runs with a Bore Snake and the barrel is brand new looking.

I find these boolits to be a pleasure to shoot....and after recovering some boolits...and watching the things they hit explode...it is one hell of a thumper. Many people argue that you should use factory ammo in your conceal carry...but I carry these...and hopefully we will never have to find out what kind of serious damage these things will cause...because from my tests...bad guy will be in some seriously bad shape after just one round...and he's going to have 14 more coming at him until my oh **** reflexes relax and I lay off the trigger. However, maybe I'll get a shot at a wild hog soon with some and see what they do.

[sargenv]

I do something similar, but not as involved on my Dillon 650... and in my case, I'm hand feeding the cores into the cases.. I find that I can seat about 1000 cores per hour give or take.. I've made up maybe half as many as the OP.. since I shoot a revo and only use these swaged 40's in my semi's. So at the end of Feb I had to switch production to my cast rn's.. when I switch back to the semi, I'll use some of the stock I have on hand..

[goblism]

I am going to revive a long dead thread as I recently did the same thing with my hornady LNL press. I am only using 3 stations (expand, seat, and XTP crimp) and it seems to be working pretty good. I am looking at getting a case feeder for the press and than I can start moving on making some bullets!

[Artful]

How did I miss this the first time around - I think another Dillion is in my future for that set of Corbin 45 dies I'm not going to Auction off.

[just bill]

I started to set up the lnl to make 300 blackout, then I found out I don't have a shell plate. My bad.

Any videos planned.

Bill