Optical lens for rear peep (SR MicroSight - Phased Zone Plate)

[ohland]

http://www.sbsdistributing.com/9.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_179094dc1851c410b1.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=762)

This is a development by a high power shooter that just happens to work at a federal research lab. David Crandall at Idaho National Laboratory

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/idl/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/05/breakthrough-microsight-technology-improves-iron-sights/

Now if they came threaded 7/32 - 40, that would fit my Williams Foolproof FP-788-TK.

:2 drunk buddies:

[BruceB]

Doing a search for "Idaho laboratory" will bring up a thread on this subject from May of last year.

The possibilities are fascinating!

[nicholst55]

High Power shooters have been using this basic concept for many years. His version is a bit different than what I'm familiar with, as his is a 'one-size-fits-all' application. Still, I like it!

[gnoahhh]

I keep promising myself to investigate further. It may well be the panacea for aging eyes and iron sights.

[ohland]

I keep promising myself to investigate further. It may well be the panacea for aging eyes and iron sights.

http://www.bjonessights.com/
http://www.bjonessights.com/INTL.html

For use with an aperture rear sight, it's screwed into the front of the 7/32-40 threads. It does not specifically state it is a phased zone lens, but an email should confirm this...

http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html

Merit Lens Disc

For the rifleman who requires, or desires, an optical lens to further sharpen his sight picture. This disc utilizes the #3 aperture assembly and provides a cavity to mount a prescription ground lens.

Lens is properly cushioned to protect it from shock of recoil.
May be easily removed for cleaning or replacement.
You are always sighting through the optical center of the lens.
Eliminates steaming of glasses.

Your eye doctor can prescribe the appropriate correction for the lens. Most opticians can grind a lens for you locally. If unavailable though, contact:

Bob Jones
5115 East Edgemont
Phoenix, AZ 85008
(602)840-2176 6-10pm MST

The Merit Lens Discs are available with or without the rubber Lightshield.

[ohland]

http://www.stallingsmachine.com/

Look under product. Fly in the ointment, the MicroSight is readily available in 1/4x32 and I think 1/4x28. My Williams FP uses 7/32x40, which is a smaller diameter. Got a note out to Stallings, asking if they couldn't offer one in 7/32x40.

Failing that, I'd like to find an email address for Williams Gunsight Company. Their website contact info seems to totally lack an email link. If they could make a replacement aperture for the FP of 1/4x32, it would solve the conundrum.

[nanuk]

could you drill it and re-tap?

[ohland]

could you drill it and re-tap?

Hmm, looking at my KB&C Tools index, the tap for a 1/4x32 is 7/32. Since the OD of the 7/32 screw would be 7/32, you could drill out the threads with a 7/32 and tap with a 1/4x32.

Where is my copy of Machinerys Handbook... grrr...

[ohland]

I called Williams Gunsight today, and got right through to their tech support.

First, the aperture housings are ONLY available fully finished, tapped for 7/32x40. End of story. In my words, if you don't want 7/32x40, you are SOOL

The "Big Game" apertures have an ID of .300", which is way above the .21875 tap drill used for 1/4x32. Snap.

I ordered a replacement aperture housing (and an elevation Gib Lock screw).

Sent a note to Stallings Machine, and I asked if I could send the housing to them, get it drilled and tapped 1/4x32, have a MicroSight installed, and sent back.

Yes, I probably could chuck it up and drill/tap it, but I bet Stallings has equipment with much better alignment than my chinese stuff.

Updates as I get them...

:kissarse:

[ohland]

Doing a search for "Idaho laboratory" will bring up a thread on this subject from May of last year.

The possibilities are fascinating!

Went thru the thread, it does show the technical stuff, but little on product availability. FWIW - The "Wonder Sight" is a screw on rear sight mount for S&W revolvers.

[ohland]

Wayne thinks he has an old Williams sight somewhere to measure. I whipped out my Starrett 799 and sent him:
Using my Starrett 799 electronic caliper:

Length of aperture housing (front to back) is .436"
Width of the aperture housing (side to side) OD is .312"

Front of aperture housing (to muzzle) is unthreaded, ID measures .201"
Rear of aperture housing (to shooter) is threaded, ID is .201"

Original wall thickness is .052"

Tap hole for 1/4x32 is min .216" - max .220", the normal drill for 75% threads is a 7/32, or .21875"

.312 - .219 is .093, halve that and a wall thickness of .046 to start with.

1/4x32 minimum diameter for interior threads min .216 - max .224

Looks promising.

:popcorn:

[ohland]

Wayne says he'll drill and tap my FP aperture housing at no charge if I buy a sight... When my replacement aperture housing arrives in @ a week, I'll do a hat trick and fire it down to GA (after confirming its the right part!!!).

Hoping that Williams understood what I was looking for.... It would have helped if they posted a parts list for the FoolProof so a customer could reference the same part that the company thinks its talking about...

:roll:

[ohland]

Well, I guessed correctly, it IS the aperture holder. Williams part # 011528, cost $9.28

Will be sending down to Stallings Machine Saturday.

:brokenima

[tonyjones]

ohland,

Please keep us updated.

Thanks,

Tony

[ohland]

FedEx wanted $15.97 to deliver a .5oz part in a 6x10 padded envelope to a business address in GA. I'm sure UPS would have been a little bit more. We are all being told there is no inflation... In the late 90s, I was having IBM servers that weighed 50 pounds (by themselves) shipped from TX to WI for $15.

A bit of a start, here is the housing in my hand, but where is the rest of the sight? Some frantic searching turned it up on the floor...

:violin:

[pilot]

I ran into something similar shipping a small part, ended up shipping USPS instead. About $8 instead of $16.

[Suo Gan]

USPS went in the hole 2 bil last month too.

[imashooter2]

FedEx wanted $15.97 to deliver a .5oz part in a 6x10 padded envelope to a business address in GA. I'm sure UPS would have been a little bit more. We are all being told there is no inflation... In the late 90s, I was having IBM servers that weighed 50 pounds (by themselves) shipped from TX to WI for $15.

A bit of a start, here is the housing in my hand, but where is the rest of the sight? Some frantic searching turned it up on the floor...

:violin:


You could have shipped it USPS first class mail for way less than 2 bucks.

[ohland]

Talked to Wayne just a short time ago. Aperture housing tapped without a problem, microsight installed. Now it's paid for, and it should be flying to my open arms... Dim the lights and put on Barry White...

:popcorn:

[ohland]

Arrived yesterday. Screwed it into the tapped housing. I pulled a 222 Remington barreled action out of a barrel vise (long story) and will mount the sights. Leave my 6mm with a scope, turn my 222 into an iron sight with a Lyman 17AHB front and a FoolProof TK with the MicroSight in back.

[tonyjones]

ohland,

Please post some photos when you're done.

Thanks,

TJ

[Von Gruff]

And not only results but if it if you have shot this combo without the micro sight installed compared to with, would be interesting.

Von Gruff.

[ohland]

Comedy of errors. Turned a replacement FP base mounting screw today (Williams used a 8-40 with a .200" diameter head!), found the Williams sight pusher (hooray!!!), yet to hack away at the stock to accept the sight.

Picked up some SR4759 for my 6mm Friday.

:popcorn:

[ohland]

Ordered a Williams FP Deluxe Target High for the Rem 540XR, sight is in transit. Snap, delivery is scheduled for Friday, by end of day. Long weekend starts very early Friday morning... Must remember to ask range personnel for an M9 front sight adjustment tool....

Anyways, the 540XR is a good candidate for the MicroSight, very accurate rifle.

PS. Brownell's usual price was @90$, dealer price was @70$, Midway normal price was @71. Go figure.

:coffee:

[ohland]

OK, the old saying that length isn't everything is FALSE.

My dad was totally unable to get the Merit Target sight to work for him on his 540XR, due to bad eyesight. Went downstairs, rummaged about, pulled out my Micro-Sight, unscrewed the windage screw, took off the stock Williams aperture housing, threaded on the 1/4x32 drilled housing, and came to a full stop. The normal shank for the Micro-Sight is full threads right into the cylindrical optics housing. The Micro-Sight in the original form will not fit no-way no-how into a Williams aperture housing.

Careless measuring shows that the Williams apertures have an unthreaded shank .100" long that spaces the disc @ .030 past the edge of the windage arm. Rear end of aperture housing is @ .070" from rear edge of windage arm. Already sent a note toStallings Machine, asking if they could do a Micro-Sight with a .100" unthreaded shank extension.

:veryconfu

[catmandu]

ohland,
How about an update?
How well does the microsight work?

Paul in WNY

[mtnman31]

I'm interested as well.
I've shot some High power and always have felt that some folks have an advantage in that they simply see better than others.

[catmandu]

Bump

Gentlemen, I really would like to hear how well did this work for you?

What would you do if you had a do-over?

Thanks,

Paul in WNY

[skeettx]

Me also
Thanks
Mike

[JLK]

I know this is mainly aimed at the rifle shooter but I wonder if the Microsight lens could be placed in to the center of a pair of shooting glasses and used for shooting a pistol with open sights?
JLK

[Jon K]

I know this is mainly aimed at the rifle shooter but I wonder if the Microsight lens could be placed in to the center of a pair of shooting glasses and used for shooting a pistol with open sights?
JLK

Merit makes a lens disc...see post #5 this thread.

Jon

[imashooter2]

I'm interested as well.
I've shot some High power and always have felt that some folks have an advantage in that they simply see better than others.

As it has been for time immemorial. :sad:

I'd like to hear some first hand reports on this lens myself...

[BD]

I'd also like to hear how this worked out. I've been hearing rumors of this sight for two years, but have yet to find one I could look through.
BD

[ohland]

Gods, what a nutroll, BUT it does fit. The insurmountable problem was how to screw the 1/4-32 Micro-Sight boss into an aperture housing and NOT have the exterior of the Micro-Sight housing run into the back of the Williams windage arm. This was not too difficult, BUT it took a bit of thinking, and thinking without alcohol HURTS. Start to finish, @ 1 hour. Most of that was setting up the fixture, finding the tap, and the target knobs, and figuring out how to fully seat the knobs over the ball bearings (having a 4" vice, or bigger, is good!)

Grab yourself a Williams 5/16 "Big Game" aperture. I used my small hole gage, and it comes out at .308 ish. Get yourself a foot of K&S Engineering #3062, 5/16 OD aluminum tubing (mics about .308 ish), with a wall thickness of .049". A 7/32 stub drill to clean up the ID. Brownells for a 1/4-32 tapered tap (yeah, aluminum likes thread forming taps, but $$$...).

The tubing snugly fits in the aperture so good it is scary. Note that the aperture has a windage mark stamped at the 6 o'clock position, this seemed to be the reason the aluminum tubing would only go in one way. Just install the aperture "backwards".

Using my trusty rotary table, and an MT2 ER-32 chuck, I co-ax'd a 5/16 drill bit to less than a thousandth off. Chucked the aluminum tube up in a lathe and hack sawed about .550 inch off. Chucked it onto the ER-32, (cut edge up) drilled it out to 7/32, then tapped it to 1/4-32. NOTE: Aluminum prefers a light touch when tapping with a normal, fluted tap, so I used a "sensitive" tap wrench with the sliding arbor, not my normal spring loaded point.

Tap went right into the tubing, no binding. Used Tap-Magic for aluminum, but any aluminum friendly tapping fluid should do (WD-40). Tubing did not slip in ER-32 chuck.

Took a file, cleaned off the flash from the hacksawing, and popped it out. Screwed the Micro-Sight into the arbor, then pushed the arbor into the aperture, using the workbench. Added the short knobs (upgraded a non-TK version) and momentarily lost one ball bearing and the teeny spring.

The Big Game aperture and the non-TK version of the Williams FP sorta cramps your fingertips when using the elevation knob. If you are into Silhouette, spring for the FP-TK version.The Big Game aperture is wider than the stock aperture, so you loose some windage. If you really need all of it, I suppose you could mill some clearance on the underside of the aperture on each side.

What would / could I do? Well, since it was in a ER-32 chuck, I could have pulled the threaded arbor out, turned it end for end, and drilled out the forward end to 1/4 inch. There are a number of flat black finishes which could be used to coat the inside of the arbor, reducing reflection (old timers, remember Em-New?)

For those with a lathe, yes you can turn a stepped arbor, to go from 7/32-40 OD to 1/4-32 ID. BUT my way can be done with a fair degree of precision and IMHO, is fairly idiot proof. If one really wanted to go minimalist, you could probably use .035 walls, and skip the 7/32 tap drill. Buy a cheap collet block and a 5/16 collet.

61534

Side

61535

Rear

61536

Top

61582

:coffee:

[ohland]

Well, found a nice light load of IMR 4895 for Sierra 130 gr HPBTs. Need to find some of my iron sights. Got a .810 Lipski barrel band, some front sight blocks, an extra globe sight (Williams?), and this FP-TC with the Micro-Sight, and another FP-TC, with a normal 7/32 aperture (with a Merit #3 Target disc).

Start with a short block, these non-TK sights have a shorter elevation stem.

:coffee:

[ohland]

Well, the best laid plans of mice and men...

In short, the G2 frame has those strengthening webs. The original Contender doesn't.... So the original G1 sight has the Micro-Sight and the new TC sight has the Merit #3.

About time the 6.8 gets some mild loads. Jacketed for now.

[ohland]

Nice thing about leaving the mill setup in place is that a little touch up is easy.

61585
Trusty Grizzly 0463 / Sieg X3 and it's little friend, the rotary table and MT2 ER-32 collet chuck. Once dialed in with a co-ax, lock the ways down... Don't forget to tighten the gib locks for the table down while indicating, because the table does move a teeny bit when you lock er down. At least mine does... Also make sure the table locks on the rotary table are locked down before indicating.

61589

Top view, measured the aperture housing (.440) and the windage arm width (.620), 620 - 440, divided by 2 to get .090 distance on each side of aperture. Measured width of aperture plus arbor, then popped arbor out to measure it separately. Found arbor was .571, a wee bit over. Chucked the arbor back into the collet chuck, and tried to face with a 5/16 mill. Wrong answer, the mill was so close to the diameter, that it pushed up a rim of flash around the circumference. Changed to a 1/2" mill, and it cut square with no flash.

61587

Much closer to the windage arm. I turned the arbor end for end, and faced off the front end, so that the OAL of the arbor was .495. I have about .030 to play with. A few turns with a case deburring tool to knock the straight 90 degree edge off, and it slides tightly back in. At this point, I see no need for any Loctite or other adhesive.

61588

From the side, at an angle.

61586

From the rear. Facing the arbor sure makes it look cleaner. If you want to use the arbor without the Micro-Sight, something must be done to knock the shiny flash down. Dykem or other layout fluid should do.

:drinks:

[imashooter2]

Thanks for resurecting this thread. Looking forward to a usage report.

[ohland]

Forlornly looking for frugal Hornady 110gr V-Max. Looks to be Sierra 1810 100 gr Pro Hunters.

[markinalpine]

ohland,
I think birchwood-Casey makes an Aluminum Black chemical.
Mark :coffeecom

UPDATE: Here it is at their web-site: http://sport.birchwoodcasey.com/Finishing/FinishingDetails.aspx?ProductID=0790cc91-b2e8-488d-a6fa-8820790beefb