So, ...What do you Old West fans think???

[klcarroll]

In a moment of boredom, I was just randomly prowling around the Internet, looking at firearms related sites: …..And over on “The Firearms Blog”, an item caught my eye.

It seems that there are at least three companies producing replicas of the “Mare’s Leg” cut down levergun. (…As made famous by Steve McQueen in the old western “Wanted Dead or Alive.)

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad334/sockmeister/MaresLeg.jpg
http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad334/sockmeister/Steve.jpg

The comments over on The Blog ranged from “Cool Toy” to super critical. Below is one of the “less enthusiastic” posts:

"If you seriously think I’m going to stand next to someone at the range as they spin that thing round like John Wayne / The Terminator, then you are sorely mistaken.
This weapon has one use and one use only, to get people accidentally shot. Hopefully only the operator.
I have a disdain for these so-called ‘pistols’ anyway, as they are neither accurate or practical. I lump the Kel-Tec PLR16 and Sig 556 pistol into this category of worse then useless as well.
If you want to wave a gun around and show off, that’s up to you, but don’t do it near me or I’ll have you ejected from the range. Spoilsport?: Yes. Alive?: Definitely. Watching some cowboy wannabe let a loaded weapon slip from his hand?: No thank you."

Now maybe it’s because I grew up during the heyday of the John Wayne / Steve McQueen / Clint Eastwood style Westerns, but my take on the whole thing was more in the “Cool Toy” category; ….But beyond that, I can actually see some of the weapons positive points!

First of all, it is quite compact, and would be handy getting in and out of vehicles. Also, when compared to many of the “Old West Era” handguns, it is also much faster to reload, and one can “top up” the magazine with a round in the chamber.

A number of people argued that this sort of weapon was too clumsy to take aimed shots with; ……But I really can’t see that as a valid criticism! …..I have fired a lot of SMG style weapons, and I have always found that one’s natural hand/eye coordination can be very effective with small, “two hand” weapons. (…..And the “Mare’s Leg” is certainly no clumsier than a T-C Contender with a 15” barrel when you hold it up to use the sights!!)

What do you guys think??? (….A question particularly aimed at the Cowboy Action shooters.)

Kent

[David LaPell]

I've been torn myself on the gun. It seems to me to be a gun without a purpose, other than as a novelty. It is too big to be carried around comfortably and too short to be used to hunt with as a rifle. The magazine capacity isn't enough vs a revolver to make me want to get something different. To me a 7 1/2 inch barreled SAA would be just as capable without all the fuss and muss of that gun. I do think that some half wit will blow a hole in themselves, but they can do that with any gun.

[timkelley]

I don't want one but, having said that, I see no reason a guy couldn't hit pretty well at 50 or less yards.
And yes, I am of that generation and there is the COOOOOL factor.

[Phillip]

Rossi makes it as well, they call it the Ranch Hand.

My self, I would rather have a 16" barrel leaver then one of these. There better balanced and just as easy to carry.

[ReloaderFred]

It's not legal for SASS use, since there's no catagory that would allow it. I believe it was addressed at one of the Territorial Governors' Summits a couple of years ago and they voted against it's use in SASS competitions.

With that said, if you want one, then buy one. It certainly couldn't be any worse than the .30 Carbine Enforcer.

As for myself, when someone gives me a hard time about something I happen to like, my reply is normally something along the lines of "your opinion only matters if I care". It's up to me, or you, to decide what we like.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Trey45]

Cool? To a certain extent, yes.
Usefull? Not for me.
Novelty? Most definitely.
If someone gave me one, I'd probably keep it. I wouldn't go out and buy one, and certainly wouldn't ruin an otherwise perfectly good lever gun to make one. I tend to agree with the "less enthusiastic" post. If I'm at the range and some yahoo starts spinning one of those things around, I'll find the R.O. and let him know what's going on and then keep something solid and bullet resistant between me and the yahoo until the yahoo stops. I've managed to go 46 years without getting shot and I'd like to keep it that way.

[Groo]

Groo here
The disadvantages have been stated but the advantage is it gets the max from a cartridge
without a bc gap to slow things down.

[Longwood]

If you look close, you will see that it is not a very close copy of the gun used for television. Plus,,, I can't think of a more worthless gun but if I wanted one really bad,,,,

[Matthew 25]

I'd rather face 6 men with these things than one with a 1911...at any range.

[Bullshop]

Put the rest of the adjustable length butt stock on it and add tactical sights and it ain't so bad.
I would rather have the one Lucas McCain used.

[lbaize3]

As a cowboy action shooter I think the mare's leg is an interesting weapon. Check your weapons history and you will see all types of weird weapons. People are inventive and will always be modifying things to suit their particular needs. I would not mind playing with one of those cut down rifles. If someone did not like it and did not want to stand next to me at the range... well that is their problem and not mine. Truly, I do not care for narrow minded and strongly opinionated folks. They can be anyway they want to as long as they are not bothering me with it.

As far as purchasing one of those Ranch Hands, I have been buying other weapons that I have been wanting, like my new 7 & 1/2 inch Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. Maybe, if I get the other guns I want and have a few bucks to spare, I will get a Rossi Ranch Hand, too. Time will tell...

[GrizzLeeBear]

Put the rest of the adjustable length butt stock on it and add tactical sights and it ain't so bad..

[smilie=l:

Bullshop - the tacticool cowboy! :cool: :guntootsmiley:

[bearcove]

Pistol? Rifle? OK pick!

Fast draw on a tin can!

That would NOT be my first choice.

[Multigunner]

It's a novelty. Definitely not any part of the old west, just Hollywood. Even in the old west if a horse rolled on a rifle in a scabbard it would have never broke there.

Actually two mares laigs of similar size were used in a famous prison break by a stone killer by the name of Harry Tracy.
I think he rode with the Hole in the Wall gang. His girlfriend was told to hide some pistols in a small crate and conceal it at the work site Tracy's chain gang would be on a certain day.
She had no money to buy pistols but the gang had left two winchesters at her home. She took the winchesters to a former gang member who was skilled at repairing the gangs firearms. He cut the stocks and barrels down enough to fit the carbines in the box. Don't know the dimensions but likely very much like the Dead or alive Mares Laig.
The cutdown rifles did the job, most of the guards and several civilians were shot down, and the remaining guards were afraid to follow Tracy and his fellow escapees into the woods, since even radically cut down the carbines still outranged the guards sawn off shotguns.

[klcarroll]

Well, .....I seem to have gotten exactly the cross-section of opinions I was looking for.

Interesting!

....I do think that the whole accuracy issue is probably more complex than some have indicated: As I remarked in the O.P., this weapon is really not much more cumbersome than a TC Contender with a 15" barrel; .....And I have seen some pretty fantastic shooting done with those! (...Admittedly done by guys who had spent a lot of time getting familiar with the nose-heavy SOB!)

I am sorry to hear that the "Mare's Leg" isn't CAS legal, .....As that was really the only legitimate purpose for it that I could think of! (LOL!!)

BTW: How well do the Rossi '92 reproductions hold up??


Kent


P.S. @Multigunner: ...That was a really neat piece of History! Thanks!

KLC

[Combat Diver]

Novelity item to me, but if it floats your boat...... I hate people who are self rightous. Granted any trick gun play should be down with no one around on your own property wheter a Colt SAA or Mare's Leg. Same people would probably get up set if I'm dumping two rounds in the chest and head with a 1" spread at 25m under 2 secs.

CD

[Matthew 25]

The Rossi 92. I've had one since '95. It has ridden many miles in my old Ford, I took it to AK and back -back then you could bring a rifle into Canada w/o problems. Mine is a trapper in .357. It is very accurate with 38s and 357s. I used it in Cowboy shooting, too. The major drawback on the trapper was ammo capacity. I love that cheap little rifle and much prefer it to my friend's Winchester 94 in 357. I think mine has held up very well (but don't spill a Coke on it, bad for the bluing).

[Char-Gar]

I have always been a Western history buff, but could never get into the Hollywood/TV version of the same. Most of it played fast and loose with history and for that reason it didn't interest me.

This "Mare's Leg" is an example of something cobbled together to look good on TV and to give the character something different over the others which infested the airwaves at the time. IMHO it has zero practical use and nothing to do with the "Old West", so I see no reason to give it a second look.

[EDK]

I'd sure like to shoot a few rounds through one before I got out my wallet. The HENRY 22 version at a local shop for $300 is whispering to me.

BUT I've wanted a legal 1896 Mauser Broomhandle with shoulder stock since I was about 10 years old and saw the neighbor's probably illegal souvenir of World War II...and Clint Eastwood in JOE KIDD blasting away with one many, many moons ago. That would get my wallet open in a heart beat!

Get it if you want it. A SHILOH SHARPS ain't cheap and 50/90 brass is expensive, but I sure like that cannon. A MARE'S LAIG is a lot cheaper to buy and ammo is less expensive and easier to come by.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Ziptar]

It's pointless, and not even a "cool" toy.

Anyone else notice the cartridge belt of huge 45-70 looking ammo slung over Steve's shoulder? Pure Hollywood, tiny pistol rifle thingie, HUGE ammo.

[StrawHat]

...Anyone else notice the cartridge belt of huge 45-70 looking ammo slung over Steve's shoulder? ...

That might be the same ammo belt he used when he made the film about Tom Horn.

[klcarroll]

I did some research, and found that the studio execs decided that Steve McQueen's "Screen Image" would be enhanced by a more impressive cartridge belt. Hollywood did that kind of thing all the time: .....Think about all of the westerns you have seen where levergun toting Mexican Bandits wore crossed bandoleers full of .30-06 rounds!

.....In reading all of the responses, a question has come to mind:

Wouldn't virtually all of the critical comments about a "Mare's Leg" style weapon apply equally to the whole current generation of AR and AK based pistols????

(.....Loud, nasty, and expensive little things!)

Kent

[klcarroll]

Hmmmmmmmm..............., 45-70 eh?

....New thoughts come to mind:

Imagine the possibilities! .....Somebody talks Rossi into making a "Factory Pistol Receiver" version of their exposed hammer "Coach Gun", and equip it with a walnut pistol grip and a set of 12" rifled barrels chambered for 45-70. The whole weapon would be 16 - 17 inches overall, and would fit nicely in a backpack. (.....You say you want "Bear Repellant"??)

Now THERE is a "Fantasy Weapon" that I would buy regardless of it's perceived practicality!!! (....And people could laugh at me all they want!)

Kent

[Ziptar]

.....In reading all of the responses, a question has come to mind:

Wouldn't virtually all of the critical comments about a "Mare's Leg" style weapon apply equally to the whole current generation of AR and AK based pistols????

(.....Loud, nasty, and expensive little things!)

Kent

Yes, while we are at it, add the Tactical Mosin Nagant (http://m.flickr.com/photos/ryjones/2635022443/sizes/m/) to the list.

[cajun shooter]

The mare's leg was given a thumbs down by the Wild Bunch at SASS and I would have to agree. I shoot three SASS matches a month on average and don't see any use for it. As far as Hollywood goes they had Chuck Connors using his 92 in what was supposed to be the late 1870's early 80's. Just as John Wayne used a 92 in almost all his movies that were for the most part before or just after the war but he always had that 92. The company of Armi San Marco made such a bad reputation that they changed the name to Chippa and increased the price to give the public the impression of a new high classed builder. The guns they build are very bad on the internal parts and some break at first firing.

[9.3X62AL]

No particular interest in a "mare's leg" here, but I try to not inflict my prejudices and preferences on the wants of others. Just because I can't see a use for a thing, doesn't mean that someone else might not crave or enjoy it.

[West Creek]

Funny thing - a 92 winchester will spit those pistol cartridges right on the ground as you spin it around. Would be pretty hard for a feller to shoot hiself with one since most likely you'd be dry firing it if you spun it like John Wayne. the 94 is a different story altogether.

BTW - just 'cause I know this doesn't mean I tried with live rounds.

[Thumbcocker]

Not my thing but if it makes you happy go for it.

[jh45gun]

My take Practical NO but I always like the concept because I loved the TV show. Would I own one only if I had that much money to pee away which I do not so I doubt I would ever own one though I sure would smile if some one gave me one. Reasons to own one? Just looks like the sort of gun that would piss off a liberal!

[klcarroll]

..............Reasons to own one? Just looks like the sort of gun that would piss off a liberal!


:2_high5::happy dance::happy dance::2_high5:

[Geraldo]

1. Would the criticism of this pistol pertain to AR/AK pistols as well? Yes, except that the muzzle blast from the AR or AK would be far worse. If you've fired a Colt Commando, Krinkov (especially without the brake), or an HK53 you know the drill.

2. Aiming a cut off rifle. As you point out, it's no worse than my TC Contenders and Encore. It's not worse than the old MP5k locked out against the sling.

3. Now my first thought when I saw this in American Rifleman was, "only 6-7 rounds of pistol cartridge in a harder to use platform than a SAA". What a great idea. :roll:

But let's think about that for a minute in the context of a gunfight. Think "Open Range".

You have a SAA loaded with five when it hits the fan. You can thumb cock and shoot quickly, but if you have to reload you are in a world of hurt ejecting and reloading shells.

Or you have your Steve McQueen Winchester. You can do tactical reloads and keep it topped up the whole time. You could say that you need two hands to operate it quickly or the willingness to face your own gun muzzle as you spin it, but you could operate it slower and more safely with one hand if need be.

But if I'm laying down my money, it will have a full stock and carbine barrel.

[klcarroll]

...........But let's think about that for a minute in the context of a gunfight. Think "Open Range".

You have a SAA loaded with five when it hits the fan. You can thumb cock and shoot quickly, but if you have to reload you are in a world of hurt ejecting and reloading shells.

Or you have your Steve McQueen Winchester. You can do tactical reloads and keep it topped up the whole time.......


That was the one advantage over a SAA that occurred to me in my initial thoughts.

Kent

[375supermag]

I don't know if I would ever buy one, but for those who want one, I say go for it and have fun. That's what this gun thing is all about, isn't it?
I don't really have much use for 2-inch barrelled snubnose revolvers or hi-cap DA autoloaders, but I wouldn't stop anyone from getting one and/or shooting it.
We have enough problems with liberals trying to ban and restrict guns, they don't need any help from within the ranks of gunowners/shooters.

[btroj]

I would never own such an ugly gun. You want one, go for it, but not me.
As for the talk of gun owners trying to ban or restrict guns I don't think anyone ever said it shouldn't be allowed. I will never buy a gun I think is ugly but I won't say they should be banned. Don't read extra into what was said.

[Longwood]

I can't even count the guns that I have had on all of my fingers and all of my toes.
I can count all of them that I have "Really needed" with a finger and thumb touching at the tips.
If Ya like one and want one, buy one!

[HeavyMetal]

I think this has already been mentioned but I'll say it again anyway:

The Mares Leg comes under the heading of "whatever floats the boat".

I watched the show, thought Steve was cool, never saw the "gun play" I saw on the "rifleman", or other westerns of the time.

Would I buy one? No, but that doesn't mean I don't think there cool. I am a lefty and I bought an AK back in the late 90's for no other reason than to make Gov. Gray Davis mad!

It's been fun but I have no real need for it and seeing Davis kicked out of office just makes it more fun when I do shoot it!

As for "twirling" it around at the range?? That isn't about the gun that's about the moron who brought it to the range! I usually don't interfer with idiots but I will at any range if I think stupid is in progress.

This is everybodies right and responsibility as a gun owner. The type of weapon doesn't make you stupid thats a gene thing!

One last observation: not one but three companies have "tooled" up to make this gun. Must be a market or they wouldn't have done it. Think about that!

[btroj]

Great, mall ninjas go old west. Wonderful. Old west tacticool?

I agree about idiots at the range. They need to be removed, not the gun. I don't like the looks of this particular gun but if you want it, got buy one.
As for the 3 companies tooling up, does anyone know if they are selling? How many new ideas have we seen come and go? Some guns stick around because they are simple, elegant, and work. Think 94 Win and 1911.

Time will tell if the marketplace will support these things.

[Geraldo]

Great, mall ninjas go old west. Wonderful. Old west tacticool?

I agree about idiots at the range. They need to be removed, not the gun. I don't like the looks of this particular gun but if you want it, got buy one.
As for the 3 companies tooling up, does anyone know if they are selling? How many new ideas have we seen come and go? Some guns stick around because they are simple, elegant, and work. Think 94 Win and 1911.

Time will tell if the marketplace will support these things.

Well, if Taurus would have asked me five years ago to invest in a .410 revolver program I'd have died of laughter. I can't believe Ruger is coming out with a 1911 when it seems as though there should be enough 1911s in America for every man, woman, and child to have two of them. So what do I know about sales and marketing?

[happy7]

Hmmmmmmmm..............., 45-70 eh?

....New thoughts come to mind:

Imagine the possibilities! .....Somebody talks Rossi into making a "Factory Pistol Receiver" version of their exposed hammer "Coach Gun", and equip it with a walnut pistol grip and a set of 12" rifled barrels chambered for 45-70. The whole weapon would be 16 - 17 inches overall, and would fit nicely in a backpack. (.....You say you want "Bear Repellant"??)

Now THERE is a "Fantasy Weapon" that I would buy regardless of it's perceived practicality!!! (....And people could laugh at me all they want!)

Kent

Well, you can already buy something sort of similar. The BLR revolver in 45-70