2nd smelt (PICS)

[t_dickinson]

:killingpc

Did smelt #2. New problems.

I used the wife's muffin pan this time. It's the type with two layers with a space between them for even baking. The lead sort of bubbled while pouring and came out with a bunch of craters.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32064&stc=1&d=1304440444

Now I know you all told me to save the heavy skin that forms on the top of the pot and flux it back in but it will not melt. I always get this patina over the lead that ends up in the ingots and sticks to the ladle like glue. The stuff is heavy but even with a fresh crayon burned in, it doesn't melt.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32063&stc=1&d=1304440196

This batch was range lead.

Why don't I get the perfect shiney ingots like everyone else?

My temp varies alot right now as I learn to control the burner. It goes from 500 to 800 degrees. This time I learned that as I empty the pot I have to turn the flame up. I think that's because I am removing the hot metal and it is replaced with cool air.

Any advice is welcome. Enjoy the photos.

[Defcon-One]

If your emptying the pot the flame needs to be reduced as the lead level drops, not increased. Less lead to take up the heat being supplied, means that you need less heat. If your thermometer tells you otherwise it is probably because there is not enough lead left to cover the sensor end completely.

I am pretty sure that your ingot mould (Muffin Tin) is teflon coated. Brown or grey coating will tell you. It is polytetrafluoroethylene AKA Teflon a plastic which gases out around 600 degrees F. You pour in the melted lead and the heated Teflon makes little bubbles between the lead and the pan walls and your ingots look like the surface of the moon.

Cast Iron or steel is best. Anything in a shiny muffin tin may be Tin plated and you could get sticking. Your tins are also double layered which is bad for cooling (They are also more expensive). You can try sand blasting or sanding out one muffin cup to test this. Bare steel will not stick and will not bubble up. The ingots should be pretty shiny with a well sanded, bare steel cup.

Also, the bubbles won't hurt the lead at all, but you'd be better off if you don't breath the gases from the super hot Teflon.

[t_dickinson]

Anyone have something to say about the lead that won't melt but shouldn't be discarded?

[waksupi]

If it doesn't melt right away, it is most likely pure lead, so has a higher melting temperature than an alloy.

[t_dickinson]

Okay, what do I do? Raise the temp and risk melting zinc that may have sneeked in?

I'm referring to the junk in the second photo. It forms a skin that skims into a lump that is heavy but does not melt back in, even when I re-flux.

I'm told NOT to toss this out because it contains lots of tin but if it won't reduce back into liquid then when it goes into a bottom pour pot, it will never reach the mould.

[Ole]

Put a drop of pool acid on it.

If it's zinc, it will sizzle.

If it's lead or tin, no sizzle.

Do you have a pool or any friends with a pool that would give you a couple drops of muratic acid?

I don't think it's zinc, because if it was, it would have melted into your lead mix.

[jsizemore]

If your melt temp hits 700 degrees and that stuff won't reduce into the melt after fluxing and stiring then it is offically useless for casting boolits and should not be worth one more moment of your time other then getting it out of your melting pot regardless of other folks opinions. Imagine that in your mold if you could get it in there. Since it's from range lead , please remember this as long as you cast, IT COULD BE ANYTHING. You got what was useful for your purposes, so quit wasting electricity/gas and move on.

Most any new muffin tin has some coating on it so it doesn't oxidize while sitting on the store shelf. Used tins will have a little oil from the baking process. That will cook off in due course with continued use. Those dimpled ingots will still produce excellent boolits even though they won't win the Miss America Ingot Contest. A trademark also owned by Donald Trump.

Good Luck.

[geargnasher]

I don't see how you're getting zink from range lead, unless Jbunny's been shooting his zink boolits at your range!

Don't breathe the Teflon gas, muy poison!

That lumpy crud that won't melt back in is likely antimony, if you are using range lead with a lot of jacketed bullet cores, it might have a lot of antimony (up to five percent) and almost NO tin. If you add some tin or linotype and then flux with a handfull of sawdust, allowing it to char and smolder, then stir thoroughly with a dry wooden stick, you'll probably get it to melt back in and homogenize.

Antimony buy itself doesn't like to mix with lead unless lots of heat and pressure is applied (foundry conditions), but it will form an intermetallic with tin, and the tin/lead/antimony combination blends nicely. If you have lots of antimony and no tin, you might also have leading problems.

Gear

[Defcon-One]

Maybe that stuff that is driving you nuts is from the crayon. I use clean TeaLite candles from Walmart to flux. (Plain white, unscented.) About 5 cents each in a little 1.5" aluminum cup. They sell a 50 pack for a few bucks.

Pop it out, remove the wick, throw it in. Heck, just throw it in and skim out the wick if you want. Crayons have a lot of other dyes, pigments, etc. in them.

Best option is to clean the pot, the skimmer and the ladle then try again.

I don't think it is Zinc either. You'd see a big change in your lead and be talking about clumps and lumpy, grainy lead. Besides, the Zinc will melt, even if we don't want it to.

What Gear says, "Antimony with no Tin" has merit, but jsizemore is right, "IT COULD BE ANYTHING".

How about a pick of the top of an ingot? Do they look like normal lead on top?

[jsizemore]

Go to trash can at your range and look at the different projectiles that now inhabit your berm. Bismuth, titanium, powdered or foil aluminum, plus all our favorities. Could be anything.

[fredj338]

I agree, if it's range lead, little chance of getting zinc in the melt. I have seen pure lead take more heat to get melted. As to fluxing, try sawdust. Seems to get the tin & other metals incorporpated better than wax based & wwhat's left on top is just carbon & any non alloy sludge, skim & toss.