fire lapping

[white eagle]

my hats off to you 2 dogs for the fire lapping
article [smilie=w:
I finally got around to doing it to my new Bisley Blackhawk S.S.45 colt
I am amazed and impressed with the accuracy I am getting
Foe all the doubting Thomas' belive me it does work [smilie=s:
now I have to try those fed primers that someone has been bragging up
I just bought 2,000 of them :popcorn:
Thanks again[smilie=s:

[tek4260]

I have my firelap rounds loaded and ready! How many rounds did it take for your stainless? What was the bore like before?

Congratulations by the way :)

[30hrrtt]

I had 2 Rugers, a Red Hawk and Super Red Hawk in 44 mag. They had pretty substantial restrictions and both took arond 200 rounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Ruger stainless is pretty tough.

[PacMan]

I used a little more aggresive laping compound than most on my SS Ruger and then some finer stuff to finish her off. Took about fifty rounds total.
Dwight

[white eagle]

I did the same Dwight
and the round count is pretty close to the same

[2 dogs]

Im glad it worked out for you guys! :-)

[RobS]

I had 2 Rugers, a Red Hawk and Super Red Hawk in 44 mag. They had pretty substantial restrictions and both took arond 200 rounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Ruger stainless is pretty tough.

I am not ridiculing here, but easy...........200 rounds with the wrong grit can ruin a gun. More info on the grit and loads used etc. would keep people from performing a huge mistake.

I've fire lapped and use a 320 grit usually and follow up if needed with a 600 grit, usually not with cast boolit guns though. I've even used 220 grit before on barrels that had larger restrictions or other issues then moved to 320 etc. The key is to check often with slugs and go slow at it, especially if using a coarser grit lapping compound.

[BABore]

Ditto's to RobS

I've done several Ruger SS guns and many chrome moly revolvers and rifles. Using 320 grit Clover lapping compound, I've never had to go beyond 35 rounds for anything. A complete cleaning was done every 5 rounds. Cleaning is one of the most important aspects as otherwise your just lapping the fouling. As soon as the first little hint of abrasion shows up on the muzzle end tooling marks, I stop. The gun is cleaned and then given 100, back and forth, strokes with a cotton cloth wrapped bore brush coated with lapping compound. A very important step that is commonly missed.

A barrel can be overdone. Cast boolits prefer a tapered bore whereas jacketed can do well with a tapered or parallel bore. You can also be too smooth or finely finished. Best to go slow and check often. You can't put it back in.

[white eagle]

Inspection and cleaning was and is a constant
every time I lapped thorough cleaning and inspection
smooth as a baby's..... well you know
I see a marked increase in accuracy that is what I was after
If it would have shot with as is barrel to MY expectations
I would have not done the fire lapping
tuned out good I am happy :awesome::guntootsmiley:

[thegreatdane]

Does anyone care to share your lapping loads? Especially in 357 ;)

[RobS]

Does anyone care to share your lapping loads? Especially in 357 ;)

I never did a 357 however a quick powder such as bullseye or red dot will work, I've used unique as well, with enough of a charge to get the slug out of the barrel; very, very slow velocities on this. If you wonder just make up a few rounds with unlapped boolits but I would imagine it wouldn't take much in a 357.

[PacMan]

I used 700X and about .7 grains in my .357. You can most likely get by with less.I was pushing them a little harder than what is recomended. If the charge was to light the bullet would somtimes stick in the barrel. No real problem with that other than you end up lapping the first part of the barrel more which causes an uneven bore.

Some say that to much velocity and you start leading the barrel and that is right but i chech behind every round for leading untill i am comfortable with the load and then go forward.

Most sugest some where around 13-15 BHN hardness but i did use harder on my Marlin.

Everyone says no gas checks so i do not use them.
Can some one enlighten me as to the reason?

Dwight

[uscra112]

What does all this firelapping do to your cylinder throats? Seems to me that they'd suffer terribly. I've firelapped single-shot rifles, but now I've got a 681 S&W that has a tight spot at the thread.

[PacMan]

112- remember that for ever 6 shots that go down the barrel only one goes thur the cylinder throat which means that the barrel is lapped 6 times to 1 time for the cylinder throat.
Dwight

[kelbro]

Took me 24 shots to remove the obstructions from a 7.5" stainless SBH 44 Mag barrel. 6 coarse, 12 medium, and 6 fine grit from the Wheeler kit http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=646612 Used 310gr ACWW bullets. Accuracy went way up. Leading was never very bad but is now basically nonexistent.

[lathesmith]

Cleaning is one of the most important aspects as otherwise your just lapping the fouling.

Definitely true, this is one of the things that makes firelapping a rather slow and laborious process, but it's critical as it keeps the number of rounds necessary to a minimum.

I'd also mention, I don't use sized brass when I fire lap, or I keep it to a bare minimum. I set my seater die to a slight roll crimp for compound-embedded slugs, just enough to hold them in place.

I've done a couple of SS Rugers, after firelapping they weren't really much more accurate shooting, but they were much less finicky about which loads they would shoot well. In other words, they shot most everything I fed them pretty good after firelapping, whereas before I really had to work to find a load they liked.

They were also easier and faster to clean after being firelapped.

lathesmith

[2 dogs]

Firelapping has not altered the cylinder throats in any revolver I have firelapped to any degree that I can measure. Basically, dont worry about it. Clean often, measure and test fire.

[kelbro]

Yes, clean often and clean well. I cleaned between each grit size change. My cylinders were all very uniform before so there was no measurable difference. If you did have one or two undersized holes, you might run all of your loads through them. Couldn't hurt.

[tek4260]

Finally got around to shooting some firelapping boolits. I had decided on 255gr Lee RNFP and 4.0 gr of Trailboss, but I cheated and used the .7cc Lee dipper that came with a set of dies. Seemed like too much trouble to weigh every load considering accuracy was the least of my concerns with them. That dipper is a bit less than 4gr of Trailboss and is a powder puff. I fired the first 25 rounds the other day and took a cleaning rod and checked for a stuck bullet every shot. After 6 rounds, I would pull the cylinder and clean the barrel with a brush wrapped in Chore boy scrubber to remove lead, then clean normally with solvent and brushes. Shoot 6 more rounds and repeat. After around 18 shots, the leading went away completely between strings. I loaded another 25 and decided to walk thru the woods and shoot at the old pond about 1/4 mile behind my house. On the way back I saw an old washer and decided that would make a good target to make sure none were sticking in the barrel. With that white target, I could see the boolits in flight and was actually able to pick up most from the ground in front of it as they didn't penetrate the sheet metal(really light loads lol)

Anyway here are some of the boolits I picked up in the grass and leaves

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_2865.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_2868.jpg

I REALLY NEED A NEW CAMERA(and to learn how to take pictures)

It really amazed me how much they deformed and still didn't do anything more than dent the washer! Also, the bases cupped with little ridges at the rifling marks. I guess straight ACWW is softer than I thought.

As far as the actual results, I will be doing this to all my cast boolit shooters. The bore is smoother and shines like a mirror. Before, you could feel the roughness with a patch, but not now. Tomorrow I'll be trying the heavy cast loads again and will report back on the results.

I think firelapping will fall into the list of must do's before ever wasting a shot:

25 lb Mainspring
Light trigger spring
Sear work
Ream throats
Recut forcing cone to 11deg
and now, 50 rounds of firelapping for good measure

[RobS]

I think firelapping will fall into the list of must do's before ever wasting a shot:


I always say shoot a gun first and see how it does before doing anything. After shooting........................then an informed decision can be made as you sit down with your gun and talk it over with one another. :smile:

[tek4260]

But there are certain things we "know" a factory Ruger needs to have done.

[RobS]

I will admit that every Ruger revolver I've owned (45's) has had a barrel constriction where the barrel screws into the frame. On the other hand my Dad has had 4 different Ruger 44 mags (1 BH, 2 RH's, and 1 SRH) that were all straight having .4285-.4290 grooves and had .4305-.4310 cylinder throats; lucky son-of-a-gun.

[2 dogs]

I decided to revive this thread a bit. I am currently locked in mortal combat with 2 Smith and Wesson stainless steel sixguns. A 625PC 45 acp/AR and a Smith 66-5 in 357. Both of these sixguns are being firelapped with 280 grit lap compound now and progress is very slow.

I have lapped them both quite a bit, over 100 rounds, and both have smoothed up and shoot better. Still, its tough getting the bore to taper towards the front....

Comments on firelapping stainless???

[subsonic]

This is some advice I just got in the .480 unique thread when we yanked the wheel off course:

No offense, but you have to be doing something wrong in your FL technique. I've done 10-12 guns with some that have had as much as 0.0015" of thread constriction. I've also coached a few friends on the how-to's. None of us have had to go past 35-40 rounds of lapping rounds. Even several Ruger stainless guns.

- Is your alloy a verified 10-13 bhn at the time it's fired?

- Are you using "Clover" brand, 280-320 grit lapping compound?

- Does it take you 1-2 minutes to embbed a boolit with compound?

- Are the coated boolits almost black with compound that can't be scraped off?

- Do you fill the grooves with compound?

- Is your velocity kept below 500 fps?

- Do you clean the gun completely after every 5-6 rounds?

- After the final cleaning, do you give the bore 100 strokes with a tightly fitted, cotton wrapped, bore brush coated with compound?


I put 1 or 2 boolits on the lower plate with a good dab of compound, then place the upper plate and start rolling side to side. I only use light pressure with my finger tips. After a minute of steady rolling, I flip the boolits 180 degrees, wipe the compound from both top and bottom plates, and re-gob it next to the boolits. Then it's another minute or so. Never really timed mysef, but it must take 2-3 minutes for a set. Then I wipe the plate with my finger and apply it to the grooves. If there's not enough, I go to the can. I apply new compound for each new set.

One other thing, are you using unsized cases for this?

If you do a thorough search, I did a complete write-up on this a few years back.

You're probably already doing that though. I was not spending 2 minutes per boolit. I'm going to try a few that I have really spent some time rolling and see what happens.

[2 dogs]

I dont time how long I roll em Dennis, but I roll the SNOT out of them for sure!!!

[hylander]

Where is this Fire Lapping artical ?
I am going to fire lap my .44 Mag SBH, I already have the lapping compound.
I have 231 and Unique, what powder charge for a 240swc ? I know it is supose to be very low velocity.

Thanks

[GSaltzman]

Took 200 rounds to firelap my Ruger Super Redhawk. That Ruger stainless is tough stuff.

[Bardo]

Where is this Fire Lapping artical ?
I am going to fire lap my .44 Mag SBH, I already have the lapping compound.
I have 231 and Unique, what powder charge for a 240swc ? I know it is supose to be very low velocity.

Thanks

I think it might be this article.

http://www.gunblast.com/FerminGarza-Firelapping.htm

Bardo

[gray wolf]

I have been doing some extensive reading on fir-lapping a barrel.
Trust me--you can do it correctly or you can do it incorrectly.
The softness of the lead bullets ( very important )
what grit size you use and how well the compound is lubricated (very important )
Will you use one grit size ? or a progression of different grit size ( important )
What speed the bullet goes through the barrel-- (very low Vel. recommended )
very good cleaning between shots or cleaning between short strings.
You can't lap a leaded or lightly leaded barrel.
Do all the reading you can and proceed with a known method that works.
Not one that may work, could work, should work, or kinda works.
You can't put back the metal.

Veral, at L B T bullets can steer you right
Also bear tooth bullets has a kit and some good articles and advise.
They also have a nice book you can get.

[1bluehorse]

Does anyone care to share your lapping loads? Especially in 357 ;)

two grains of Bullseye will work...thats what I used on the Wife's 357's. I'd like to add this though...READ ALL YOU CAN FIND ON FIRELAPPING BEFORE ATTEMPTING.

Gray Wolf was sayin it while I was typing it. Good advice and info...

[1bluehorse]

I wanted to add a little something here that most of you may already know but I feel it's important for you fellas that are new to this and want to firelapp your revolvers. This info is in the books and articles on firelapping but just in case you missed it. Before firelapping any revolver it's very important that the gun is in balance. In other words, the cyl throats are 5 thousanths or so larger than bullet dia and the barrels groove dia is at least a thousanth SMALLER than the cyl throat. EXAMPLE: 45 colt- bullet dia .452, cyl throat .4525, barrel groove dia .451. If cyl throats are smaller than the bullet and bore size, it will not only cause the bullet to be swaged smaller and use all the cutting ability of the lapping bullet on the throat but will also send the now smaller than bore bullet "careening" down the bore hit or miss and can cause a lot of damage to the bore. So measure your guns before starting and correct these issues first..if you do, you should have good results. Not meaning to preach to the choir but there may be some new shooters and gun owners out there..

[AK Caster]

Why does fire lapping produce better results than pouring lead into the barrel and lapping the barrel the old fashioned way?

[gray wolf]

It may or may not produce a better barrel in the end, but the process is a long and takes a lot of upper body work. Also monitoring of the lead slug for wear and each slugs ability to hold compound. It has been said that hand lapping done incorrectly can funnel shape the muzzle and or throat area, best left to people that know how to do it.
Fire lapping works when done right and for the right reasons.
The good kits come with some very explicit instructions that are important to follow. I have spoken to Veral at L B T bullets, his method is not difficult but he stresses to follow directions.
Yes the throats should not be smaller than the bore, the slug will be to small and it will only hit the high spots in the bore.