Tumble Lube - Non-TL Bullets

[youngda9]

I am about to buy a casting setup and purchase the Lee push through sizers. I am trying to do it on the cheap and want to TL my bullets to avoid and expensive lubri-sizer purchase. I plan on making up some of the 45/45/10 mixture of Johnson's Paste Wax (JPW), Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) and odorless mineral spirits (MS) to use as lube.

I am unsatisfied with the 44 caliber TL style bullets offored by Lee. I've read that I can TL a non-TL bullet and get away with it. I want to shoot something like a 429421 Kieth style bullet. Will this type of bullet work using a tumble-lube of the type I mention above? My standard load is 10.5gr of Unique out of my 6.5" S&W 629 for 1250fps.

Can I TL a non tumble lube bullet without a gas check? I was thinking about getting the Lee 240gr LSWC-GC bullet. It is the closest to a Kieth design they have (I am trying to not spend $100+ on molds and handles). This would cost $50 to get molds(6cavity) and handles as opposed to $100 for Lyman mold(2cavity) and handles

One more question...is there a large meplat style 44 mag bullet mold out there that isn't 300+ grains? Something more like 240-260gr? I have a Smith 629 and don't want to shoot that heavy of a bullet(I hear the heavys are best suited for a Ruger or a tougher gun).

Learning a ton from reading at CB...awesome forum !

[mpmarty]

I have had good results tumble lubing non TL boolits. They work fine for me.

[harvester]

I use LLA in 45/45/10 on non tumble lube lee bullets but I would also use a gas check at 1250fps.

[Shiloh]

I have had good results tumble lubing non TL boolits. They work fine for me.

Me too. I did run them through a LEE push through sizer though. Consistency.

Shiloh

[rintinglen]

I have used LLA up past 2300 feet per second and tumble lube almost all my boolits. The 45/45/10 mixture of Liquid Alox, Johnson's paste wax, and mineral spirits works wonderfully well on hand gun boolits at pistol velocities.
I do size my boolits, but if your mold casts reasonably round boolits 2-3 thousandths over your bore, you are golden.
However, this is an addictive hobby, I have spent all my foreseeable savings for the three yaers on more casting equipment...go back before it's too late.

[geargnasher]

+1 to all of the above.

Gear

[Cowboy T]

The vast majority of my boolit moulds are the non-TL design, and I TL every boolit I cast. It works great; you'll be just fine.

Since you've looked at the Lee moulds, I know what you mean. While I do use the TL 240-grainer in my 629 with fine results, I still think, "if only they made a version of the non-TL 240gr GC LSWC boolit, but without the GC!" Since it'd be an easy mod, it might be worth it to call 'em and ask 'em if they'd do it.

[youngda9]

Thanks for all the help. I was unsure on what to buy and I wanted to figure this all out and not be stuck with molds that I didn't use.

[Hanzerik]

One more question...is there a large meplat style 44 mag bullet mold out there that isn't 300+ grains? Something more like 240-260gr? I have a Smith 629 and don't want to shoot that heavy of a bullet(I hear the heavys are best suited for a Ruger or a tougher gun).

Ranch Dog TLC432-265-RF (http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_12&products_id=1)

[Longwood]

Sort of a poll here.
I am trying tumble lubing. Do you lube once or do you lube again after sizing?
Thanks

[MikeS]

Longwood the proper method is to tumble lube, size, tumble lube again.

Youngda9, while there is nothing wrong with tumble lubing, I just wanted to let you know that there are other options other than either tumble lubing, or getting a lube-sizer. I either tumble lube my boolits, or pan lube them. There's a new product (made by a forum member here) called the WaxMeister and it makes pan lubing really easy. I use the Lee push thru sizers. I generally size them dry, then put them in a pan that already has a cake of lube in it with holes for the proper caliber boolit I'm working with. Then with the cake loaded with boolits, I heat it up till the lube melts, then I turn off the heat, and let the lube cake harden. (I just let it air cool, some folks put the setup into the refrigerator to speed it up, but I find the lube sticks to the boolits better if I let it air cool) Then using the WaxMeister I cut the boolits out of the lube cake. One advantage of pan lubing pre-sized boolits rather than lubing, then sizing is that just like tumble lubing, along with the lube filling the lube grooves, there's also a thin coating of lube on the driving bands of the boolit. I don't know if this really helps anything or not, but using Richard Lee's (founder of Lee Precision) logic this puts the lube where it needs to be, between the boolit and the rifle/pistol bore.

I also prefer to have a cake of lube with holes in it for the proper caliber rather than either filling a pan with boolits, and then filling it with melted lube, or trying to place the boolits into a pan of melted lube while it's still melted, as with either of those methods it's easy to have a boolit fall over in the lube and then making a mess trying to fish it out of the hot lube. To make the pan of lube with the holes already in it, I heat up the pan of lube till it melts, then let it cool by itself. I then take the WaxMeister (do a search on WaxMeister for more info on it), put a boolit into it, then cut out the holes where I want them in the cake. It's a lot easier working with cool lube, rather than molten lube! When I'm done with the lube cake, I put the pan with the lube in the refrigerator which hardens the lube to the point where it will easily come out of the pan, then I store it in a plastic bag in the refrigerator. It might not be necessary to store it in the refrigerator, but I live in south Florida, and by keeping it there, I know it stays hard. I try to keep several cakes of lube all setup with the holes I need for the different calibers I load, so I can just grab the correct one, put it in the pan, and I'm ready to go.

Again, with all that said, there's nothing wrong with tumble lubing. In fact some folks will tumble lube a conventionally lubed boolit after either lubing it with a lube-sizer, or pan lubing, as a final extra coat of lube. (but as I said before by pan lubing a sized boolit I get the lube on the driving bands just by pan lubing)

[Longwood]

Thanks for that Mike.

I used to have a sizer luber but it got away and now I am trying other methods. I tried the pan lubeing but found it to be pretty messy and time consuming plus it worked well for the bullets with lots of bands and grooves but not so well with those shorter bullets with only one groove.

I especially like your suggestion to cut the bullets from the cake and leave the holes since I made a cutter a while back.

I only load for 45 Long Colt and 45-70 so that helps with keeping things pretty simple.

I live in the Southern California desert so I know about hot weather and how it can effect many things, That is the main reason why I am trying the tumble lube method. I even added 5% paraffin to stiffen the lube a little bit. I also added a little to my cake lube. I hope the paraffin does not mess up the lube too much.

BTW, I made a rotary card-wad cutter for my drill press. It works great. A lee mold box is good for a good sized pile of wads.

[1Shirt]

Like Marty says!
1shirt:coffee:

[390ish]

How do you guys go about tumble lubing rifle boolits that will be heat treated? I have some that need to be sized and all I have are lee sizers. What happens if you do not use lube with a lee sizer?

[nwellons]

You need to use some sort of lube with a Lee sizer. I have had good luck using full strength dishwashing detergent. Smooth operation and the sizer lube then washes off easily with water.

[sargenv]

Oddly enough I haven't had to use any kind of lube with the Lee sizers.. but I am only doing pistol bullets and only sizing them down a few thousanths.. (.402-.403 down to .401, .359 down to .356. I size them after cooling them from casting soon after casting, and before they have a chance to harden up.

[390ish]

Thanks, I will try the dishwashing detergent trick.

[prs]

I have used Lee water based case lube to size boolits in the push through type.

prs

[Bullwolf]

I Tumble Lube an old Lee C429-240SWC HP Boolit and have never had a problem with it, even though it is a conventional lube band Boolit.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=539&pictureid=3880

I have shot the Tumble Lubed Boolit in 44 special, and it has seen occasional 44 magnum loadings as well in my older:

Ruger Blackhawk
Ruger Super Redhawk

and currently in my

Marlin 1894 Lever-action Carbine
S&W 629 Mountain Backpacker

I used to TL using straight Lee liquid Alox. I like 45-45-10 much better. Both work fine, and I generally do not bother to size it.

I almost always just shoot it as cast, after checking the size with a micrometer.
(It casts at .431)

I have run it through a lee push through sizer before, but there is really no need.

I have only sized the Boolit while it was lubed with Alox. I never tried just re-sizing it bare, but I don't see why you couldn't do that, if you really wanted.

I figure if I am going to use a Lee push through die to size it, I might as well Tumble Lube the Boolit twice. It takes less effort to size the Boolit, and there is probably is also less wear and tear on the die that way too, although I can't imagine someone wearing out a steel Lee push through sizer die with lead Boolits.

Tumble Lubing before and after might even help me squeeze a little extra lube into the grooves, I figure it can't hurt.


- Bullwolf


Update: I don't use a gas check with the C429-240SWC Boolit, but I mostly shoot it in 44special loadings, my favorite being around 7 grains of unique.

I have shot the Boolit in 44 magnum loads up to 10 grains of Unique, but not a lot of them, as I normally shoot them through my favorite S&W 629 Mountain Backpacker. (with a 3inch barrel)

Because my Backpacker is my go to gun in 44mag, I mostly prefer to shoot the lighter, more pleasant 44special loads.

For my really heavy 44magnum loads I go with a stouter 22+ grains of Winchester 296, and I use a different Boolit.

[XWrench3]

i am shooting the exact mold & boolits that you are considering, with the same gun! go figure. anyways, using just lla, and running 1250 fps, without a gas check, you are going to have some leading. how much is the question. every gun is a little different. i have shot them as cast, after sizing (lee push through) and even as cast after beagleing the mold. it does not matter, all of them lead. if you want to shoot magnum loads, you are going to have to use a gas check. and even sometimes then, you will still get some leading. the one thing that i have found, that will stop the leading is using a better lubricant. i have not tried the 45/45/10 yet, but i am going to have to. because what i have found that does work, is a royal pita to do. it involves hand lubricating every boolit with automotive hi temp grease (kendall super blu) and then sizing to get the lube evened out. then wiping the excess lube off the bottom of the boolit before loading, and then wiping down the loaded round afterward to get the grease off the outside after crimping. oh yes, then there is the die clean up afterwards. like i said, a royal pita, but i get ABSOLOUTLY NO LEADING, NO MATTER HOW FAST I DRIVE THEM. i have some jpw here, so i will make some up today, and try it in next week or so. when i do, i will report back here, so you can know what to expect. when i get the money, i am going to buy a lube sizer, and fill it with the kendall super blu! but right now, i have other things that need the money a lot more!

[youngda9]

Thanks for the responses. Looking forward to your test results XWrench3