Big Rifle Cases, Small Charges

[beezaur]

Hi Guys,

A load I used to use in high school with my .280 Rem was (I think) 12 grs Red Dot and a 140-gr cast bullet. I used to stuff some poly fiber on top of the powder to hold it in place.

Now I am thinking of casting for a .308 Win at fairly low velocities, <1200 fps. So that means load density is around 20-25% with most powders.

What is a good plan for making accurate loads like that? Do I really need to hold the powder back on the primer?

Scott

[ron brooks]

Now that is a question! :) I'm sure it will start quite a discussion. You might want to do a search on fillers. There was quite a discussion on it a couple of weeks ago.

Ron

[Guido4198]

You might try the same load of Red Dot in your .308. Read some of Ed Harris's commentary on loading Red Dot in bottleneck cartridges w/ cast bullets...
I don't have any Red Dot...but I do have a lot of WC846 Surplus powder. I'm loading 24 gns. of that behind a Lyman 311467 and a CCI 200 primer. These run about 1435 fps in my out-of-the-box Rem 700, and shoot into one ragged hole from 50 yds. off a rest.
Cheers,
Don

[PAT303]

I load 13 grns of red dot into 303's and 7.62 nagant for 1400-1500fps and it shoots as good as I can hold it as well as so clean you can't tell there been used. PAT

[35remington]

Try the Lee C113F and 8-9 grains of Red Dot, 700X, or W231 in the .308 and I predict you will be quite pleased. Around 1500-1550 fps, accurate groups. Also applies to heavier bullets in the 150/160 grain class, as well as the pointed 130 grain RCBS. Keeping three shot groups under 1 inch in a skinny barrelled Savage sporter was not difficult, and five shots would hover around or slightly exceed one inch if you were selective in culling your castings. Upping powder charges to the 13 grain level always opened groups for me, to the tune of 2X.

I have the most experience with 231 in that charge weight, and it's reliable at all temperatures. Easy to ignite. Cheap to shoot.

No filler needed.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Another Ed Harris load is 16.0 gr. 2400. Works great for me (.30/40, .30/06, .303 British, and 7.65 X 53 Argentine.) I even use the same boolit, Lyman 314299, and size as each rifle prefers. For a lighter load, I use 9.0 Green Dot in .30/06 and .303, but haven't tried it in the others yet. 1400-1500 fps for the 2400 load, and 1200 for the Green Dot.

[9.3X62AL]

Another vote for the 16.0 x 2400 in the milsurp and modern bolt rifle calibers. I have used it with and without dacron......SD's shrink and velocities go up slightly, but downrange performance on paper (and rats) isn't markedly improved. Most times, anyway. That could be the operator, of course.

2400 doesn't seem to be position-sensitive, but I try to raise the rifle "muzzle-up" before shooting. I suspect that Red Dot and WW-231 aren't real position-sensitive, either. While never having used either fuel for rifle/cast boolit loads, I've burned my share in shotgun and handgun loads respectively--and both are very clean-burning and easily ignited

[Antietamgw]

I haven't found Red Dot to be position sensitive, even in .45-70.

[beezaur]

16 grs 2400 fills almost 40% of the case (according to Quickload). If I want to stay subsonic with .308 I would need to do around 9 or 10 grains, or about 23% loading density. Red Dot is a little better, around 6.5 grs at 30% loading density.

Has anyone put the powder in the front of the case on purpose, to see how that compares to sloshing it to the back before the shot?

Scott

[NVcurmudgeon]

I have many times elevated the muzzle and slowly leveled it before each shot, and could see no difference in group size with 16.0 gr. 2400 in the .30/06. I have been fortunate enough to win a number of bench rest matches with the above load and ignoring powder position. In 7 X 57 Mauser, 18.0 gr. 2400 and 168 gr. Lyman 287308 is MORE accurate when the powder is not settled.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I have many times elevated the muzzle and slowly leveled it before each shot, and could see no difference in group size with 16.0 gr. 2400 in the .30/06. I have been fortunate enough to win a number of bench rest matches with the above load and ignoring powder position. In 7 X 57 Mauser, 18.0 gr. 2400 and 168 gr. Lyman 287308 is MORE accurate when the powder is not settled.

[grouch]

I've tried various wads to hold down powder in an assortment of calibres over the last 40+ yrs, and in no case has it helped accuracy. To this point it's always been counter - productive.