GC are only good 1800fps or less.

[MBTcustom]

Forgive me if I insulted anybody with the above remark but that has been my understanding since my daddy taught me to reload and cast in 95'. I confess that I have only ever used his books for CB reloading info and they are 1975 lyman.
I had a friendly poster claim that my info is out dated and that GC boolits are routinely being pushed way past 2000fps with no leading whatsoever. My lead mix is about 15% tin 85% lead. I am building a special rifle that shoots a .358 boolit. What do you think? I was planning to push 200grains of this alloy to 2200 fps with Paper patches. Can I do that with copper tiddly winks?
P.S. If I go GC, I plan to use a lyman 358318 that I have been sitting on for years.

[Jim]

Others have done it, so you should be able to. Best way to find out is try it!

[GabbyM]

In the guns your father was shooting the 1800 fps may have been correct. Lots of different stuff out there though. 35 calibers are good cast bullet shooters compared to many other calibers. 2200 should be no problem.

That’s a lot of expensive tin you’re using.

[MBTcustom]

What type of lube do you use to allow those velocities? I am sold on lee tumble lube but I have never pushed it that fast.
I have a seemingly endless source for eutectic solder which is 70/30 i think. I mix it 50/50 with pure.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

CBA guys are going to 2400 +/-fps with 30 BR's and 200gr GC bullets with accuracy in the .3-.4" range at 100 yds. Matching alloy yield strength to pressure is the key. Well worth a membership to read the match reports and goings on.

Rich

[onondaga]

I do it in 3 different rifle calibers, 2150-2450 fps and <1MOA in each. It wasn't easy and there are critical points of interest like alloy, bullet fit, lube, loading density, matching bullet to rate of twist, etc. The fastest is a straight Lino GC bullet in .223 Rem. The other two are 30 cal in #2 alloy GC bullets. All are 45:45:10 tumble lubed and .002" over groove to groove diameter conventional boolits

Powder selection was very challenging. I can get the same velocities with a variety of powders, but in each case only one yielded accuracy and it was the powder that had the lowest pressure with a mildly compressed load that yielded the targeted velocities and burned cleanly.

Gary

[Ole]

Over 2000 fps with no leading in 7.62x39, .358 Winchester, and .357 Max with gas-checked bullets.

[Doc Highwall]

goodsteel, 15% tin 85% lead is a big expensive waste of tin. You can get much harder bullets with antimony then with tin. Linotype has 3% tin 11% antimony and 86% lead with a BHN 22. You can buy some Linotype from Rotometals and mix it 50/50 with pure lead and get something around BHN 16.
Water cooled wheel weights will get you about BHN 22 or more.

[rockrat]

I have pushed #2 Lyman alloy to 2600fps in a 357Max and 2200 fps in a 50cal rifle. IIRC #2 alloy is 90/5/5 alloy. You could blend your alloy with pure lead and a lead antimony mix, and throw in a little magnum shot and have an alloy near #2. Use a good lube and you should be ready to go.

[RU shooter]

50/50 soft and WW in a 35 Rem bolt gun over 2K easily without issues and good accuracy

[MBTcustom]

Very interesting, Thanks for the info. I keep getting hammered for my alloy though. I thought I was being frugal by cutting it in half but I guess not. The problem is that when it comes to gun stuff (or anything else for that matter) I'm cheap. In fact if I can't do it for free or darn close to it, then I can't do it. The fact is that I get solder for free from my workplace when it "goes out if date" no I'm not kidding. Meanwhile I can't get anything but pure lead at my local scrap yard, and it is very very seldom available. I don't understand what the deal is, I used to buy WW from the local Michelin man for $10 per five gallon bucket (buddy that's cheap shootin) now I cant hardly find anything. I miss WW, all my recipes were based on WW alloy as a base. For the moment, I intend to use what Ive got and make it work.
Back to the subject of lubing these copper coasters, will lee alox work at rifle velocities or should I drag out the old Greece sizer?

P.S. Rotometals charges $2.29 per Lb for strait lead, in my book that's about three times the going rate. I pay $.60 per Lb for scrap lead or WW and $.75 for pure lead at the local scrap yard. They are fair and charge the going rate for metals according to market value.

[onondaga]

"will lee alox work at rifle velocities or should I drag out the old Greece sizer?"

I have found no velocity limit for LLA or 45:45:10 tumble lube on conventional lube groove bullets or TL bullets. Lube before and after sizing is important. You can even put on a 3rd coat if you like. They will likely smoke more when shooting 2000+fps high velocity with a rifle with 3 coats but I get a good lube star on the muzzle after 5 shots and have no lube failure with either tumble lube I use. Bullet fit is most important for that anyway.

Conventional pressure lubing or pan lubing will also work well but you may have a bit more difficulty settling on which lube to use. Some conventional lubes definitely see velocity limitations reported here. But many of those reports may well be related to bullet fit.

I use #2 alloy GC bullets to 2250 fps for big game and higher than that I use straight Lino for varmint

Gary

[geargnasher]

Eutectic solder is really close to 63/37.

Gear

[MBTcustom]

LLA rocks. I just discovered it a couple of years ago. Before that I used green RCBS lube exclusively.
Pardon my ignorance but what is 45:45:10 tumble lube? I've never heard of that.
63/37!!!!! no wonder my molds fill out so perfect.;)

[onondaga]

45:45:10 is a TL lube developed by a member here. It dries in about 20 minutes and is non-sticky. Those are a couple improvements over Lee LLA .

45% Lee LLA
45% Johnsons Paste Wax
10% Mineral Spirits.

I have success melting the JPW over low heat in a pan, adding the LLA, stirring, then removing from heat and allowing to cool a little before adding the Mineral spirits. Don't let it cool to harden before adding the Spirits. The percentage of Spirits is not critical but there should be enough that the mix is fluid when cooled to room temp and easily shaken. More Spirits can be added anytime to get the mix fluid enough to be shaken. Put your new mix into squirt bottles.

The instructions for applying 45:45:10 are the same as Lee LLA for tumble lube.

Lee LLA is not a bad lube, however it is so easy to use too much and end up with poop colored bullets that are very sticky and won't dry. Applied sparingly and correctly LLA dries overnight. Applied sparingly and correctly 45:45:10 dries in 20 minutes tack free and almost colorless.

I have also had equal success substituting in the mix, KIWI or Esquire Neutral Shoe Polish paste wax in a tin for the Johnson's Paste Wax if you can't get The JPW at your hardware store.

Beware that it is also very easy to use too much 45:45;10 also and it will then take longer to dry. If my bullets are still not dry at 1/2 hour I dump them back into my tumbling container and place fresh wax paper on the table. I tumble again for one minute with no added lube and dump them onto the fresh wax paper. That always works for me and the bullets dry in minutes after the second tumble. It is so easy to use way too much that this discourages many from falling in love with tumble lube altogether. So, be particularly careful to learn just how much lube will do the job of just wetting the bullets evenly and allow them to dry correctly after tumble. A square sided container like a plastic milk jug with the top cut off works best for me with the rotational tumbling.

Gary

[Larry Gibson]

goodsteel

I've not had good accuracy above 1800 fpse with RCBS green lube. However, I regularly use Javelina and Lar's 2500+ to 2600+ fps. I also use GCs on those bullets. As already mentioned you need to scrounge up some WWs or linotype. Both will mix with your lead and give better alloys that you lead/tin alloy.

I push the 200 gr RCBS 35-200-FN to 2200 fps out of my rebarreled M91 Mauser with bullets cast of WWs +2% tin. I use 50/50 WW/lead for hunting bullets only. I shoot 311266s at 2600 fps out of my Palma .308W barrel (14" twist) with a 70/30 linotype/lead alloy. That load shoots 1.5 moa all day long out to 300 yards, the farthest tested so far. Javelina lube or 2500+ is used on both GC'd bullets. Suggest you pick up a copy of Lyman's Cast bullet Handbook #3. It will answer a lot of questions and give a good reference for years to come.

Larry Gibson

[Freightman]

I got 2200 + - with a 200gr Lee boolit, no leading but the accuracy is at about 1900 on my 03-A3 Remington. I have loaded a cast boolit with J word data and didn't see any leading, fit is very important more so than FPS IMHO

[MBTcustom]

I totally agree that accuracy is more important than speed, except that this rifle is going to be my go-to hunting weapon, as well as paper punching, plinking, rabbiting and every thing. I will need speed for some of these applications.
I must say that I am blown away by what y'all have done with mixing lubes! I got resigned to the idea that cast rifle boolits are good for shooting holes in stuff but not much else, so I have been pursuing other options for the last 6-7 years. I am very exited by this new information! "well, new to me"

[Doc Highwall]

I don't thing there is a deer or hog that will not go down with a 200-250 grain 35 caliber bullet at 1800-2000 fps mv.

[nanuk]

goodsteel, here is the link to 45-45-10 tumble lubing (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654)

[waksupi]

I've been killing deer, bear, elk, and buffalo with a .358 in that 21-2200 fps speed range. I imagine it will work fine for you.

[MBTcustom]

2100-2200 will be perfect, absolutely wonderful! I believe that a normal sized Arkansas white tail would not stand a chance. How ever, if the boolit is exiting the barrel at only 1800 fps I worry that it wont have the punch it needs to make a clean kill @ 300 yards, which is the reasonable lethal limit that a rifle must be able to achieve in the area I hunt. I have no doubt that 200 grains @ 1800 would do the trick 200 yards and closer but I worry about anything further.

[mroliver77]

Goodsteel,
That solder you have is valuable to sell on the selling forum here. I would sell some and use the $$ to buy WW, Linotype or magnum shot to enrich the lead and tin you have. You could probably find somebody willing to trade WW ingots for some solder. Do some searching on Swapping and Selling to come up with an Idea of current values.

I have killed a few deer/pig sized animals with cast @ 2200fps. WW with 2%tin added. Animals were dead very fast with 1" holes through them. Even a blunt round nose boolit produced these results over 2000fps. 1800fps kills well but I prefer the flatter trajectory of the faster boolits. Keep in mind though that accuracy comes much harder the faster you drive them.
Jay

[Wayne Smith]

I'm pushing the Oldfeller boolit out of my Steyr 95 at 2300fps with WDWW and no leading. Haven't tried it with ACWW yet but think I will just to get some expansion if I want to use it for hunting. That's a real handy rifle.

[parisite]

My 500 S&W Handi-Rifle stays shiney clean after shooting many 350gr gas checks that I purchase online at over 2100fps.

[MBTcustom]

I would love to have that rifle! Actually what I would realy like is a lever action in that caliber.