how hot for ruger #1 45-70 cast

[bigted]

well i loaded my ruger with those j words and nearly tore my shoulder off:shock:

now i want to shoot some of my cast lymans # 457125 520gr lead but i want to warm em up some.

so far all ive ever used these boolits in is a sharps or a hiwall with blackpowder and such smokeless that aproxamates the bp loads.

now i want to warm these boolits up in the ruger and experiment with leading and hunting accuracy. anybody having done so is welcome to share their experiences with boolits and the super strong ruger #1.

please weigh in with your experiences. both good and not so good....thanks:popcorn:...:veryconfu:coffeecom

[redneckdan]

I have done some work up in my #3. I have done all the way to full boogie-ohhhh myyy gaaaawwwwd what-the heck did he just shoot level. Trust me.....you will give up long before the guns does. I loaded six of the above mentioned rounds. Five sit in the butt cuff for 'just in case'. Number six was used to relocate my acromioclavicular joint some where out back of my scapula......:veryconfu

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=bigted;1253954]well i loaded my ruger with those j words and nearly tore my shoulder off:shock:
QUOTE]

I give up.
I have been on this site for several months now and I still have no idea what j words are.
How about a clue or maybe typing it out please.
Thanks

[StrawHat]

[QUOTE=bigted;1253954]well i loaded my ruger with those j words and nearly tore my shoulder off:shock:
QUOTE]

I give up.
I have been on this site for several months now and I still have no idea what j words are.
How about a clue or maybe typing it out please.
Thanks

That is code for jacketed bullets.

[sturf]

Years ago (longer than I care to remember), I read some data that you could load 45-70 to within about 300 fps. (slower) than .458 with any given bullet weight for use in the Ruger single shots. However; cases are much thinner for 45-70 and will not last but a couple of shots.

[bigted]

even tho they arent clear over the top...the last load was 50gr of 3031 behind a rem 405gr 'JACKETED'bullet , sparked with a cci mag rifle primer , cased inside a full length sized remington case , shot in my ruger #1 rifle. this is very warm but i see that the lyman manual states that this load will and can be loaded behind a lyman 457125 boolit for around 1650fps [feet per second].

just wondered if someone has loaded this and what it shot like...and similiar loads?

sorry for the confusion...i havnt been bit with sarcastic remarks yet for mentioning jacketed bullets on a cast boolit site but didnt want to be singled out for it either. guess it dosnt make much sense huh?

thanks...

Ted

[btroj]

A 500 plus gr bullet at 1650 will get hour attention, and fast.
I would start with loads in the 1300 range and work up based upon what you willing to take in recoil.
I have just gotten to a point where I prefer lighter bullet in 45-70 for less recoil. Pain is not fun.

[Gunlaker]

A couple of years ago when I bought my Ruger #1, I tried to shoot 535gr Postells pretty fast, but I got leading once I got over 1350fps or so. Mine has a tight spot under the front sight that collects lead if you push plain base cast bullets too fast.

Chris.

[Larry Gibson]

Around 1600 fps and under is where the best accuracy will be with that PB'd cast bullet. Suggest working up to 1600 fps or so with that 500 gr bullet using H4895. I've done a lot of very heavy loading of the 45-70 in my Siamese mauser. The better cast bullets for above 1600 fps all have GCs on them. The best 500 gr bullet for such is the Lee C457-500-FN. In my Siamese Mauser I load it to 2150 fps with very good accuracy. That is 458 Win mag velocity BTW. I also push the 458483 GC'd 385 gr cast bullet to 2300 fps with RL7. That is 41 cal large bore caliber territory. The 300 gr RCBS 45-300-FC with GC also does quite well at 2400+ fps. All of these let you know you've pulled a trigger with the under 9 lb rifle. Shooting such loads off the bench is like going a round or two with George Fraser. Not bad sitting or standing though....for a few rounds anyways.....

Either the 400 gr GC'd or the 500 gr GC'd cast bullets cast soft at 1700 -1900 fps will do all you need done on this continant.

Larry Gibson

[bigted]

YEP !!! done it. loaded the 457125 up with 50gr of 3031 with a mag primer. touched these off and MY...it does get my attention. these babys really get the snot drippin...lol. too much for me and the lead deposites are quit obvious. i am not ready for another lead miner so will slow em down some...maybe a bunch...lol.

i have a rcbs 500gr gas check mould i think ill try next. this has a coal short enough to work thru a lever action so the capacity will be diminished....thank god...

will report when i do this one and hope that the rcbs mould being checked and water dropped will stop the leading.

more news later.

[Shooter6br]

The Ruger NO 1 can be loaded up pretty hot. The 7.5 lb rifle can be brutal :Fire:

[bigted]

really i thought that the felt recoil was just a smidge over that of the 45-120 with full 120gr of 2f behind this same boolit in an 8 lbs rifle. i may have just answered my leading question with that rifle too tho

id hunt with it but will not put up with the leading. this is a powerfull rifle that will be fun to carry and when i get the shot i wont be thinking about recoil anyway. i thought about the scope ring imprint on my eyebrow... but nope...didnt happen either

brutal is a good description tho....absolutly not a benchrester.

Ted

[44 WCF]

I have a gas check mould 490 gr or so which was for the .458 originally......well good judgement left at home I took my #3 and stoked it with my new mould and a heaping helping of H322.....3 rounds as all i could stand...........I still have 17 left...from 2002......

[475BH]

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Although they only go to 400 gr. in the modern rifle section, i'm sure they are a lil snappy.

Edit- I have loaded some 475 gr. LFN w/ 3031 up to 1250 fps from my Super 14 Contender and after 20 rds. was left w/ nothing but a lil twitch in my right arm and hand. Not too bad (wink-wink).

[94Doug]

......Or consider getting a 458 Lott #1. They are a heavier rifle (barrel). You can load them as light as the 45-70, or go over the top if you would like.

Doug

[Intel6]

I have a #1 in .460 Weatherby Magnum, it was a .458 WM that I had rechambered. My jacketed load shoots a 500 gr. out at 2,600+ fps which can be stiff out of such a light gun and I certainly don't question the strength of the #1. I also have a load that shoot a 500 gr. lead gaschecked bullet at 1,400 fps which is much nicer.

Neal in AZ

[NickSS]

I have had a number 1 but never hot loaded it but I also had one in 458 Win mag. I bought the 458 becasue the 45-70 with loads that went only 1400 fps with a 400 gr bullet were not fun to shoot from a bench. The 458 I could not get it to shoot. Knowing what I do today this was probably becasue of an over sized bore. Any whay the 458 was a heavier rifle than the 45-70 and I planed on shooting loads of around 1500 fps with a 400 gr bullet out of it. However, I never got any luck with it until I loaded a lee 500 gr GC up to 1800 fps. I then got good groups but it was no longer fun to shoot from a bench. So that rifle went too. about 20 years or so ago I shot a bull elk in the south end when it was going north and the bullet was a lyman 458125 and it was propelled with 65 gr of FFG black powder. I mean complet penetration from rump to chest so why do you need a hotter load?

[StrawHat]

...I mean complet penetration from rump to chest so why do you need a hotter load?...

NickSS, Good question! I ask the same about other black powder cartridges.

[peerlesscowboy]

.

please weigh in with your experiences. both good and not so good....thanks:popcorn:...:veryconfu:coffeecom
The rifle can stand heavier loads than you can. ;)

[KCSO]

That bullet in my #1 I ran up to 1850 fps before I gave out. SAome loaded to 1950 were tried and they shot all right but I couldn't stand the recoil.

[Bullshop]

Going back a few issues in the Speer book I think it must be about #10 as I recall they show their 405gn bullet with 62gn Re#7 for 2200 fps in the #1 45/70.
Might want to check before trying as I am going on memory.

[badbob454]

tear your sholder off ...... feels good , love a good kick . mine is a handi rifle loaded hot, spelled ouch ...!!! man how do they hold up with that much recoil loaded to ruger no 1 maximum velocity 500 gr boolit if i remember right @ 1600fps . like a mule kicking you , i like it , it clears up my arthritus in my sholders , for a week or two

[Leadmelter]

I have a Ruger #3 in 45/70 and it is a real piece of work off the bench. I used to shoot 405 RCBS with GC over 2400 for a pleasent experience.
Nothing like loobing an ounce of lead over 200 yards and hit what he aimed at .
Gerry

[Artful]

Well, I have Marlin 45-70 because the Ruger #3 tried to hurt me in .45-70 - but it's not bad in 375 big bore - I favor 5744 for either caliber - second favorite is 3031 but as I get older I like softer kicking guns.

[Freightman]

tear your sholder off ...... feels good , love a good kick . mine is a handi rifle loaded hot, spelled ouch ...!!! man how do they hold up with that much recoil loaded to ruger no 1 maximum velocity 500 gr boolit if i remember right @ 1600fps . like a mule kicking you , i like it , it clears up my arthritus in my sholders , for a week or two
That is kinda like a fellow who had a tooth ache and was complaining to a fellow worker, the other guy got tired of the complaining so he dropped a steel weight on the fellows toe. Ouch! that hurt bad! he said. How is your tooth he ask? I do not know as my toe hurts to much. You hurt your shoddier enough and you will forget your arthritis hurt.

[steg]

redneckdan, after wiping the coffee off the screen, and darn near choking form laughing after reading that, all I can say is I've done that"ONCE" I pulled the rest of the boolits and had a long sit down on figguring what load I was going to try next, and that was before I had the limbsaver installed, I can't recomend them high enough, she just bounces off my shoulder now instead of beating me up.

BTW someone asked what a J word was I don't remember uf anyone answered it or not, it's just a quick term for Jacketed bullets, or sometimes referrred to as condoms, I like that one, LOL...............steg

[lkydvl]

I have some loaded that are quite the trick. So Far I have not found ANYONE willing to shoot more than three. That includes a couple very experienced big bore shooters and a burly 'Nam vet Marine. They are a winning round...whoever gets up first after the shot wins!

Andre`

[Duckiller]

I shoot a minimum charge of Trail Boss behind a 405 gr boolit. I believe it stays subsonic. Puts nice holes in paper and my shoulder never hurts, ears don't ring for three days. Remember lots of buffalo died from Trapdoor level loads.

[Clark]

With 405 cast and Unique, I got up to double the published Ruger #1 loads in a Handi rifle.

The last couple shot did some real Leading at the muzzle, and the brass started to flow into the extractor mis fit.

That was all with my palm on the butt.

I can't even stand trapdoor loads against my shoulder with that little handi rifle, and my 338WM 250 gr 2600 fps does not bother me.

[Gunlaker]

With 405 cast and Unique, I got up to double the published Ruger #1 loads in a Handi rifle.



Are you saying that you used double the max charge listed for a Ruger #1? I wonder what the pressure on that load was? Pressures tend to rise very quickly with fast powders and heavy bullets.

Chris.

[Typecaster]

When I got my #1 about 30 years ago I had to work up loads. When my elbows got raw from the bench I stood up. When the recoil was enough to lift my forward leg and push me back, I stopped. I was still well below published maximums.

Richard

[parrott1969]

In 45-70 I use jacketed 300 grain bullets over 52 grains of 4198. This gives one inch groups at 100 yards with most rifles. Loaded some for a fellow that wanted a hot load with 62 grains and same bullet. After he tried the 52 grainers, he gave the hot ones back and I pulled them down.

[Clark]

Are you saying that you used double the max charge listed for a Ruger #1? I wonder what the pressure on that load was? Pressures tend to rise very quickly with fast powders and heavy bullets.

Chris.

"Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
385 cast gr cast, 17.5 gr Unique, 1411 fps, 38,500 cup, for Ruger #1

The highest I shot in the work up was 32 gr, which Quickload thinks is 88kpsi

kinda sorta double, heavier bullet, and less powder.

Today I was shooting 1 gr Bullseye in 45/70, so I am now at the other end of the spectrum.

[onondaga]

If it was my #1 in any caliber, I would feel confident with loads up to 50,000 psi all day long, but Ruger specification is higher. Ruger will probably tell you the pressure limit of the rifle with a call to them.

Gary

[old wanderer]

Well reading through this thread about one of my favorite rifles, made me drag out my reloading log.

Looks like back in 1998 I went to Oregon to hunt Roosevelt Elk. I chose my #1 Ruger in 45-70 with a Bushnell Holo sight. The load I see was 47.5 Gr. of 4227 under a barnes 300 Gr. original bullet ignited with a Federal 215 primer. All this resulted in a little light rifle that was a joy to carry up and down steep hill and jungle like growth but a super hard rap to the shoulder when you tighten down on the trigger. My crono show 2227 FPS with a SD of 12. It did roll up a nice 6 point at 80 yards.

I probably still have 25 rounds of that left somewhere, as I never hunted with the rifle again. (Not that I don't like the rifle, just never hunted that heavy of cover again. ) I pulled it out of the safe last month and the Holo sight came right on.

My other #1 is a 416 Rigby. with 107 Gr of RL19 it is moving a 300 Gr Barnes X bullet at only 2880 FPS. It is a lot nicer to shoot, but then it is a lot heavier, plus I added a 1# mercury tube in the stock to balance the heavy barrel. (Sort of feels like a 12# skeet gun now) but it will rock you back.

Been giving a lot of thought to converting my 45-70 to a 500 whisper.

[9.3X62AL]

I've had my Rooger Noomber Wun x 45-70 for about 15 years or so, and it has been among my best cast boolit fusils to date. As someone noted above--your shoulder will give out well prior to the rifle crying "Uncle!" I'm sure 50K PSI is well within safe limits--for the rifle.

Soon after getting the critter, I assembled some of the new-to-market Hornady 350 grain softpoints. I started these on the bench at 1600 FPS or so, and they weren't bad. Stair-stepping loads with IMR-3031 (IIRC), I got to 1800 FPS and decided that two-handed from the bench was indicated. Recoil was getting a mite exhilarating. By the end of nthe 50-round session--and in the 2150 FPS toll-free dialing area--it was snot-bubbles and teardrops time.

Been there/done that/got the T-shirt. I did a bit of mic-ing and measuring, and found the throat and grooves to be a snug .459" with .449" land diameter. Most of its 4,500 round history has been fired with castings, and the Lee 405 lapped out to about .460" and sized @ .459" does fine work from 1000-1300 FPS. The mould has about had it, though, and I'm going to upgrade a bit with a better mould from a vendor here. It will be gas-checked, in the event I want to get battered at some future time. 400-450 grain-class, having a 560 grainer (Lyman) for shooting through lined-up mastodons and like applications.

[bigted]

very cool fellas.

i never got back to the rcbs 500's as other pressing stuff took over. i will report that the 520gr Lyman running ahead of 50gr of 3031 was about all the fun i want...the book says i could go a bit higher but WHY?

this rifle shoots my round ball carts so well it still blows my mind. and the hot rod rounds left a smear of lead that i don't really care for...could try to heat treat em but as somebody here mentioned...thru a buff end to end??? with trapdoor velocity's??? why go anywhere else with it.

its been a joy tho to read everybody's experience with this lite easy to handle carbine tho. it will probably accompany me this fall with some of those 520gr Lyman round nose loaded a bit more reasonable tho. prolly use some of the rl-7 loads im playing with...these seem to do very well with some cornmeal filler....running around 1250 to 1400 fps area with the ly. 457125 520gr round nose gubbermint boolit.

[9.3X62AL]

Big Ted, that #1 is a DELIGHT to carry afield--no two ways about it.

[Larry Gibson]

#1 Rugers are chambered in numerous cartridges that have SAAMI Maps of 62 - 65,000 psi (please, lets not confuse CUP with PSI). I load my 45-70s up to a measured, not guessed at, 62,000 in my Siamese Mauser. A fellow with one of the original #1s with the long throat ask to shoot one of my such loaded rounds. It was a Lee C457-500-FN at 2150 fps which is equivelent to the factory spec 458 Win Mag. The Ruger handled it with no problems, the fellow did not.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

#1 Rugers are chambered in numerous cartridges that have SAAMI Maps of 62 - 65,000 psi (please, lets not confuse CUP with PSI). I load my 45-70s up to a measured, not guessed at, 62,000 in my Siamese Mauser. A fellow with one of the original #1s with the long throat ask to shoot one of my such loaded rounds. It was a Lee C457-500-FN at 2150 fps which is equivelent to the factory spec 458 Win Mag. The Ruger handled it with no problems, the fellow did not.

Larry Gibson

Not just NO, but H--L NO. That Lyman #462560 at 1250-1300 FPS does an exemplary job of letting you know the primers functioned.

That velocity envelope just plain WORKS in the #1, from 325 grains to 560 grains. Accurate, manageable, and certainly effective in the game fields. One thing that gets lost in the scramble for more and more velocity is that you are starting with a 7/8 oz. 45 caliber bullet--it won't shrink (and might even expand)--and that in its 1873 configuration it was spec'ed to enable full side-to-side penetration of a horse to enable striking an enemy on the other side of same. Just in its original form, the 45-70 is a very capable game-taker.

[Larry Gibson]

Not just NO, but H--L NO

Certainly a sensible approach but where's your sense of adventure?[smilie=l:

Larry Gibson

[Typecaster]

where's your sense of adventure?

MY sense of adventure as far as hot 45/70 loads in my #1 left along with my hair.

Richard