new! help for 7.26 x 39 and 45 ACP

[medic44]

I'm new to cast boolits for cartridge guns. I've cast for muzzle loaders for years. I have several questions.

1) What are some full power loads for 7.62x 39? I have the Lee CTL312 160 2R mold.

2) Are straight WWs ok for this? How about soft lead?

3) Is Lee liquid Alox good for this?

4) Do I need gas checks for thes loads?

5) Someone gave me all of their old casting supplies. I have about 1000 .308 gas checks. Can I use them on these boolits?

6) Do I need to get a Lee sizer to place gas checks? What size?

7) I just got a new in box Tarus 45 ACP. Should I break this gun in w/ cast boolits?

8) I have a Lee TL452 230 2R mold. Is this a good mold for this gun?

9) Should I use soft lead or WWs for this gun? (I have 600 lb of both)

10) Is Lee Alox ok for this?

I have a 9 shooting station 2.2 mile walking range on my place and I am looking forward to being able to save enough money w/ cast boolits so that I can use it!!!

[medic44]

I forgot to state that the 7.63 x 39s are SKS

[Ricochet]

I can't help you with 7.62x39 loads. But if you're wanting to shoot full power loads, you're going to have to have very hard bullets, as with pure wheel weights either dropped into water from the mould, or after sizing and checking, heating to 450 degreees in the oven for at least a half hour and dumping into cold water. You will have to have gas checks. The gas checks for the .308 will be fine. Gas checks for all the thirty calibers are the same. I think the Lee push through sizers are the best way to put them on. I would first try a .314" die, if bullets run through that will seat in the cases and the loaded rounds will chamber easily. If not, try a .311", which is the next size down. That's a very useful size for standard thirties. I don't know if LLA will work well in an SKS or not. I've never handloaded for mine.

Cast bullets should be ideal for the .45. You'll probably need something harder than soft pure lead, either wheelweights or half and half. I like to water drop bullets from the mould, and would probably use half and half or somewhat less wheelweights than that, since they harden after quenching. There is lots of good load data for cast bullets in the .45. LLA will surely work well for the .45.

[Bigjohn]

medic44
I cannot help with loads for that projectile even though I have that mold and have cast from it. Downunder in Aus.; we are not allowed to own semi-auto's but I have a bolt action in 7.62 x 39mm which I am getting around to cast boolits for.

I have to agree with ricohet on the other details.
.30 cal gaschecks are fine, seat them with the LEE push through dies as per ricohet.

Trade off your prue lead to a BP shooter for some harder material or mix it with the WW's to make a softer mix for the .45. I also have and had used the mold you mentioned for the .45ACP. It used to shoot quite well in my Colt when we could own one.

LEE liquid Alox will work with the projectiles LEE designs for it. I have used it on other styles by other makers with some success and few failures. I am using it in a rifle of .310" calibre at present with no problems

ONE CAUTION!

ricohet mentions hardening ww boolits by water cooling them. This can be done straight from the mold with some care and design work.

Place the water in a four gallon bucket 3/4 full at maximum, on the floor under or next to the casting bench. Make a top to cover the top of the bucket and have an angled shute from bench top level into the cover you made. Pad the bottom ofr the shute with some soft material to protect the soft boolits when you drop them from the mold but which will allow them to slide down into the bucket.

DO NOT return any material from this bucket to the melting pot during a casting session. ALLOW it to dry before re-using rejects.
You do not want any water to reach your casting pot while it has molten metal in it otherwise the Tinsel Fairy will visit you!

On metal hardness; WCWW will do for the 7.62 M43 SKS but if you can add some more tin to the mix or gather some metal salvage from some hard cast pistol boolits of .38 Super; they will perform as well. Almost pure linotype if you could find it would do also.

As for the .45ACP, I have had no problems with just WW material AC. They hardly make a 1000fps barrier. Try them and see.

John.

[NuJudge]

The Lee bullet has to have a gas check to attain useful velocities with accuracy. Water dropped bullets made from wheelweights have been quite hard enough.

I've loaded some with the Lee bullet with 2400 and with the surplus 680. I loaded 16 grains of 2400 (I don't think it was full velocity, but it functioned in various semi-autos), and 16 to 19 grains of surplus 680.

Some articles:

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VIID1.html

http://www.icehouse.net/fgrig/gun/762x39.htm

http://www.castpics.net/RandD/load_data/7_62x39/7_62x39.htm

CDD

[Larry Gibson]

medic44

1) What are some full power loads for 7.62x 39? I have the Lee CTL312 160 2R mold.

Leave bullet "as cast" diameter. Work up to 29 gr of H4895 (I use 28 gr with a Lee 312-155 at 160gr)

2) Are straight WWs ok for this? How about soft lead?

Soft lead - NO. WWs - YES.

3) Is Lee liquid Alox good for this?

If applied corectly it will work fine.

4) Do I need gas checks for thes loads?

Yes

5) Someone gave me all of their old casting supplies. I have about 1000 .308 gas checks. Can I use them on these boolits?

Yes

6) Do I need to get a Lee sizer to place gas checks? What size?

Get the Lee .314 sizer (for .312+ as cast bullets) or the .311 if you must size.


7) I just got a new in box Tarus 45 ACP. Should I break this gun in w/ cast boolits?

Yes, just shoot it.

8) I have a Lee TL452 230 2R mold. Is this a good mold for this gun?

Yes

9) Should I use soft lead or WWs for this gun? (I have 600 lb of both)

Use the WWs or mix them at 50-50.

10) Is Lee Alox ok for this?

Yes

Larry Gibson

[Ricochet]

I think it an unnecessary complication to build a chute to roll the bullets into a bucket. I simply keep the bucket of cold water on the floor below where I'm casting. (It doesn't have to be on the floor, but DOES have to be enough lower than the melting pot that water can't splash into the pot.) I fill the mould, let the sprue harden and cut it off into a small aluminum pot I keep on the bench near the lead pot. (Dropping the sprues and rejected bullets straight back into the lead pot is more convenient, but splashes lead on the mould and leads to the mould blocks getting lead stuck between them, making for oversized, out-of-round and finned bullets.) Then I bend over, hold the mould over the bucket and drop the bullets straight from the mould into the bucket. I have a stick to rap the mould hinges with if a bullet is stubborn about falling out. As noted above, wet lead CANNOT be returned to the pot. You will get a steam explosion. When I turn off the pot and the lead in it has solidified, that's when I put the scrap and reject bullets from the water pot back in. The still-hot solid lead dries it out quickly, but there's no explosion risk when the wet lead can't submerge beneath liquid lead. There is some risk to putting wet lead in a cold pot and turning it on. Sometimes wet stuff on top doesn't get fully dried out before the lead under it melts and the wet stuff takes a dive. Then, with a "POOF!," The Tinsel Fairy comes to call!

There is no risk involved from water splashing on the mould during the dropping of bullets. The mould is quite hot, and water sizzles off it almost instantly.

If you have back problems and can't bend, I could understand the chute. But I consider it useful exercise.

[mike in co]

i have to disagree with the above.
my only visit from the tinsel fairy came while dropping into a 5 gal water bucket.
the water will fly as high as i drop from......i got a drop in the mold closed it and refilled...splat....the steam blew the lead back out of the mold.
one must be careful when water dropping.
i'm currently using bull plate lube and fast cut/drop
you just have to pay attention. if you get water in/on the mould, take a second as you close it and blow thru the mould to clear the steam.....
all will be well
mike

[mag_01]

:coffee: ----Lee 160gr. g/c lubed with LLA is OK (2) coats with 19.3 of IMR 4198 sized .311----I found this load to perform well in the SKS----Start a little lower and work up. ----- The 230gr. boolit is fine for the 45 ACP with a mix of 50-50 air cool or if you prefer water dropped but air cool should be fine---Try bullseye 3.5 to 5grs. size according to your 45 (.451---.452) This should get you started----There are many good loads for the 45 ACP with different powders----Enjoy---Mag :castmine:

[Ricochet]

As high as I drop from is a few inches above the bucket. No way a drop can splash up to the melting pot. And it's quite totally impossible for a water drop to survive till the mould is again filled if you've properly preheated your mould, and with the temperature it maintains during casting. No need to blow. I could not carry a drop back to the pot from the bucket with the mould.

[OBXPilgrim]

If you take two pieces of old towels and put them on top of the bucket, with one overlapping the other at the middle of the bucket, then tie them into place on the bucket, you won't get any splash-back. A piece of rope, wrapped around the lip of the bucket works good to hold them in place. You want to end up with a slight cone drop in the middle of the bucket with the towels. What you drop the bullets on either side of the towels, it will roll into the middle of the cone, find the open slot & fall in the water.

I wish I could say I thought of all this one my own, but actually, I read about it here - someone elses tip, although I couldn't find it again. It works great. Thanks to whoever you were - that first posted it.

[medic44]

Thanks for the help guys. I can cast boolits so much faster w/ this double mold than w/ my old 50 cal BP mold. Have loaded 200 rounds of 45 ACP and will go shooting in the next couple of days.

[mag_01]

:Fire: ---Keep them in the black------:Fire: :Fire: :Fire:

[Ricochet]

Just wait till you try a six cavity mould!

[Freightman]

7.62x39 will cycle fine with AA1680 powder and will not leave any lead if you make them bigger than the bore.

[medic44]

Freightman: what is the load for AA1680 with 160 gr LEE cast and gas check, I've used AA 1680 with 123 gr j-word things at 26.5 gr

[Freightman]

I think I used 19g and the load says from 17.5-22g

[medic44]

Freightman, Could you please tell me where you found the load info

[medic44]

What about some low speed 7.62 x39 using the Lee CTL 312 160 2R

[Ricochet]

Bet you wouldn't have to load those to particularly low speed.

[handyrandyrc]

What about some low speed 7.62 x39 using the Lee CTL 312 160 2R

I've done 6 grains of Red Dot for a plinker load in 7.62x39. Doesn't cycle the action, but it's fun and comfortable to shoot. I used the same Lee bullet as you.

[Freightman]

I found the loads at steves reloading pages under rifle .310 loads. Sorry I have been out of pocket with Christmas.

[Ricochet]

That Lee CTL-312-160-2R is a boolit that'd be nice to have in a six hole mould!

I'm not up to honchoing a GB, though.

[medic44]

Ricochet: I agree but can't justify the cost of a custom charge from LEE

[Ricochet]

Yeah. I wish they'd offer popular rifle boolits as six holers. I don't understand why they don't. They must think (or know) that there's not much of a market there. I don't understand why, though. I for one shoot every bit as many boolits out of my rifles as out of the handguns, and I figure anybody used to banging away with cheap milsurp ammo does, too. And anybody who's used single or double cavity moulds and six holers knows what a great convenience the speedy production of the six holers is. Even if you're not casting a huge number, you can spend a lot less time and energy doing it. There's no way I'd take a single or double when a reasonably priced six holer is available. I've bought several of the custom six holers in group buys. They are a bit pricey by comparison to the standard Lee types, which I'd rather have where they have a suitable design available.

(And what's with GB mould designs always getting fattened up just a little more? Gee, guys, there are limits! The standard designs are the diameters they are because those diameters generally work just fine. I don't like having to size 'em down. A little sizing to seat checks is OK, but I'd much rather they go through a standard size die for the caliber with little force and little deformation.)

[medic44]

I need a faster mold. I've got myself and 3 kids shooting 3 SKSs. Just started casting and can't keep up. The neighbor is compaining about the noise. Anyone interedsted in a group buy? Any idea of what LEE would charge? This ain't any cheeper because I'm using so much powder and primers!!!!

[Bret4207]

[(And what's with GB mould designs always getting fattened up just a little more? Gee, guys, there are limits! The standard designs are the diameters they are because those diameters generally work just fine. I don't like having to size 'em down. A little sizing to seat checks is OK, but I'd much rather they go through a standard size die for the caliber with little force and little deformation.)[/QUOTE]

We're always fattening them up because Lee always cuts them small. You can make 'em smaller with the sizer, can't easily make 'em bigger. Between the undersize 45, 44 and 311 moulds and the over size and odd ball chambers/barrels out there it seems wise to try and get them a bit fatter than "standard".

[Ricochet]

I don't find that happening with standard Lee moulds dropping 'em too small, and I've busted my loading bench pushing some of these oversized GB boolits through the sizing dies. (The bench was a bit marginal to start with, a yard-sale combination table/storage cubbyholes/coatrack from a kindergarten that has been very handy.) I'm also finding the shanks on several GB moulds coming out too big to push gas checks onto.

Medic44, check out the stickies at the top of the "Group Buys" forum.