Moderately heavy S&W load for 310 gr .44 mag?

[fatelk]

I did a search and found some info and data, but thought I'd ask anyhow and see what you all thought.

I bought a Lee mold for 310 gr. .430 boolits. I've never used any that heavy before, but have shot a lot of lighter boolits in my model 29's otherwise.

I have a can of H110, as well as some WC820 and a couple others. It looks like 21.5 gr of H110 is something of a standard, but I understand that a good load for a Ruger may not always be so good for a S&W.

I love my old model 29's, and have no desire to hot-rod them. I also don't intend to shoot a lot of heavy slugs, mostly just trying them out for fun. I probably don't shoot more than a couple hundred rounds a year of .44 mag. I want to work up a load that is stiff, but not so much that it will put unnecessary wear on my revolvers.

Any suggestions on where to start? I'm thinking about starting with about 18gr of H110 and going from there.

[Groo]

Groo here
Lyman has data for heavy 44mag cast.
H110 and 296 are for max loads and do not like to be loaded down try 2400
Ps. 21.5 grs of H110/296 was THE load for the ssk 320 gr ramslammers..
and was not recommended for S&W's
New ones may be stronger but will shake one loose fairly quickly..

[454PB]

Bluedot. Start at around 12 grains, and you can go up to around 14 grains before things get "magnum".

[fatelk]

I did see Blue Dot in some data when I was researching this bullet, but I'd rather not buy more powder if I don't have to. I remember using Blue Dot many years ago when I loaded shotshell.

I really don't intend to "load down" H110. My idea is to just back it off a little to where it won't beat up a Smith. I wonder just where this line is between S&W and Ruger? I'm inclined to think that a good 90 to 95% of a full power "Ruger" load with H110 should be safe and efficient?

I'm going to try it either way. I don't know why, really. I have a really good 270 gr. load that I really like already.

[bhn22]

IIRC, 10 grains of Unique, or Universal Clays should Give about 1000 fps. A S&W might have an issue stabilizing a heavy bullet at this velocity. You'll want to do the normal load development & work up to this charge, but I think I even saw it once in some of Brian Pearces load data.

[Groo]

Groo here
H110/296 usually needs to have about a 90% loading to work well..
Lyman # 48 starts at 17.7 with a mag primer and a length of 1.7 in.

[Dale53]

Lyman's 4th Edition of the Cast Bullet Handbook has that particular Lee bullet with pressure:

2400 minimum is shown at 15.0 grs. for 949 fps. Maximum load is16.6 grs for a velocity if 1013 - pressure is 39,200 C.U.P.

H110 minimum is 17.5 for 977 fps. Maximum is 19.5 for 1092 fps with pressure of 38,200 C.U.P. with an overall length of 1.710".

I don't have any of those loaded at this time, so I cannot determine if they are using the "short" crimp groove or the "long" crimp groove. Overall length is important for the load and allowable pressure.

Dale53

[fatelk]

Interesting. The load I've seen referred to all over has been 21.5gr H110, and Lyman says max is 19.5. Not surprising, different books, different guns, liability, etc.

I guess I need to count the horses teeth; work up a load, get out the chronograph, and see how they work in my gun.

I remember many years ago when I started loading .44 mag. A friend of mine had a Dan Wesson and I had my model 29. We worked up some safe loads in his gun, then shot some of them in mine. They were way too hot; flattened primers and sticky extraction. I was confused at the time, but decided that there was no use damaging my gun with hot loads.

[Dale53]

fatelk;
Note my comment on overall length. I designed this bullet with two crimp grooves. Most current revolvers allow long seating, some do not. This will materially affect both load and pressures. Since I don't have any of this bullet loaded at this time, I cannot check for overall length. If Lyman is loading the bullet "short" then loads MUST be reduced from allowable loads when the bullet is loaded "long".

Dale53

[44man]

Dale, in truth there is little difference in a Ruger as to which groove is used. Seating to the top groove puts the same amount of boolit in the case as the 320 LBT that works best with 21.5 gr of 296 for me. I have tried the 310 both ways and see no change to speak of but I do seat to the lower groove.
There is no way you need to drop to 19.5 gr in a Ruger and anything less then 19 might not ignite the powder.
That 17.5 gr starting load of H110 would scare me and might stick boolits in the bore.
Recoil is what is bad for the S&W so I would use a different powder and keep recoil about the same as a 240 gr bullet.
It will not match the twist going too slow but not much you can do if one wants to shoot it.
The man bought the mold and it is a great boolit so I see an excuse to buy a Ruger. :Fire:Can't have too many .44's! :mrgreen:

[Tom W.]

I tried to put one of the aforementioned loads into a friends 29, and it wouldn't chamber. For the Smith it needs to be seated to the groove closest to the nose. The SRH will accept the longer loading with no problem.

[Dale53]

Tom W.
My Model 29 S&W (8 3/8") will easily chamber the Lee C430-310-RF seated "long". It also works well in my Ruger Red Hawk (7½") seated long. My S&W 629 (4") also handles it seated long but the recoil is a bit fierce at full charge.

Dale53

[Buddy]

I tried some of the Lee 310's my buddy had for his RSB. Not a hot load so I was ok with them in my DW744VH8. They chambered fine and shot well enough I bought a mold. DW's twist is 1-16" which is faster than the Rugers 1-20". Stabilization is not a problem in the DW. I'd stay with a plinking load if it will shoot ok. Rugers and DWs are stronger revolvers than a 29. I have all three and have miked critical dimensions. DW's and Rugers are much heavier built. Have fun.

[Tom W.]

O.k. Let me rephrase that. For HIS 29 they wouldn't chamber.:bigsmyl2:

[MGySgt]

I load the 310 Lee over 16.5 grains of 2400, standeard CCI primer in star line brass.

Velociry is about the 1100 out of my 4 5/8's ruger and about 1250 out of my 629 Classic.

Accuracy is great to about 100 yards (didn't shoot it further than that).

I would not load over 16.5 gr of 2400 for my Ruger or my Smith!

Works for me.

[Ballard]

I have shot 21 grs H-110 with a 280 out of my 29s for years. I would think 20grs H110 would be a nice load

[luvtn]

Well I've shot the .430-310 gr with 13 grs, 13.5 grs, and 14 grs of 2400 from my 4 inch Ruger Redhawk. Hardly any kick with the 13 grs. very good accuracy with the 14 grs. Next time I load I'll have to try the 15-16.5 grs
luvtn

[fatelk]

Well, I shot a few over the chrono today, 18 to 20 gr. of H110 with the 310gr boolits out of my 8 3/8" 629. Velocity was slightly under 1100 for the 18gr charge, to just over 1200 for the 20gr load. I loaded them long and they worked fine.

There were no signs of excess pressure with any of the loads, but at 19.5 gr and up there was some "cylinder bounce". Not sure if that's the correct term, but there were some slight double firing pin dents of the spent primers, and the cylinder unlocked itself once. I've noticed that it does this with real heavy loads, so in the past I've used this as a sign of the upper limit for a load. Based on these factors, it looks like about 19gr will be a good load for this gun, if it proves to accurate.

I have looked at and thought about buying a SRH for years, just can't justify it. They are nice guns and someday I may still get one. As to getting one so I can load hot, I just don't shoot a lot of magnum rounds. I figure magnum loads suited to a Smith are really plenty for me.

I have a 3" model 29, but almost never shoot the darn thing. It's just plain no fun to shoot, and I sure don't plan on running any of these heavy boolits through it.:)

[EDK]

Do some research on the "endurance package" on Smith & Wessons. The bolt notches are larger and there are some internal modifications to prevent the symptoms you quoted. The hot stuff will batter your gun....doesn't do much for your hands and wrists either.

I don't load very heavy in my 44 revolvers...and definitely not in a S&W! My model 29 dates from the early 70s and the 629 is a late 80's model. I'd suggest one of the various clones of LYMAN 429421...got a MIHEC aluminum mould and a brass one also; MMA10MM designed a version that does great in my various 44s. Start with Cowboy loads and powders that have a wider range of charges than H110/296.

I'd love to play with a 3 inch model 29....got a 3 inch 625 that will probably be my CCW gun when I get a permit. Load the 29 snubby into warmer 44 Special specs and enjoy. You might take a look at either NOE or MIHEC for a full wadcutter 44 mould...that will make some interesting holes in the targets.

A 44, like a lot of calibers, is really versatile if you experiment with your loads. Just because it says "magnum" doesn't mean you have to load it hot. I'm 62; been shooting for 40+ years; and it is a d*** poor day that I don't learn something new here!

:redneck::cbpour::Fire: