Model 1871-1971 h&r centennial commemorative officers rifle.

[dromia]

I have an option on one of these 45-70 Trapdoors.

It looks very shiny and new and hardly fired, I believe there were a limited No made in 1971.

Anyone able to tell me any more about these rifles how they shoot, how robust they are, value, collectability, company reputation etc etc.

H&R firearms are not very common here in the UK.

[Hardcast416taylor]

About the only things I can tell you about this trapdoor carbine is GET IT! You will be getting a more modern manf. carbine than a version of my 1884 that was made with a less robust metal. Yes, it still is a trapdoor and loads need to be watched a bit more carefully but you won`t regret buying it. Dare I ask the selling price?Robert

[Tom-ADC]

I have one and love it, I've only shot BP in mine but it shoots great, H&R were and major firearms maker here for years. I understand but not 100% sure that Pedersoli bought the H&R tooling to make their rifles.
Plaque on the side of the stock is the 100 years annversary plaque.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL174/1021972/18168454/370401695.jpg

[NoDakJak]

I owned and shot the carine model extensively for several years. The bore was .458 and I sized to .459. Accuracy wa good if you could stand the rcoil. Recoil was brutal with this light carbine and was particularily nasty when firing from the prone position. I always desired an Officers Rifle but couldn't afford one. Quality of my carbine was very good and the Officers Rifles that I handled appeared to be even better. Snatch up that rifle while it is available. It should shoot very well. The Officers Rifle seem to be fairly rare in my part of the country. I can recall only seeing one at the gunshows in the last fifteen and perhaps eitht ot ten total.
Hope this little bit of info helps. Neil

[cajun shooter]

I worked in a gun store when these guns were brought onto the market. The Officer's model is a rare piece and if you have the funds, get the guy out of bed to make the purchase. A friend purchased one of the standard models and I shot it. Will rattle your brain with the recoil but a solid gun. I wanted one of these guns so bad but my funds were not there. Very well made piece.

[Larry Gibson]

Those are M1873 TDs BTW. I have both an OM and a LBH carbine. Both are very good shooters as they take .458 - 459 cast and jacketed bullets of which most commercial bullets are and most moulds drop bullets at. Excellent rifles but I've replaced the breach blocks on both mine with originals as there was some problems with later run guns having the thumb latches loosen from that cam lock. I also added orignianl M1879 Type II sights to mine and a Beech front sight to the OM. I put the pistol grip adapter from the LBH on the OM where it really belonged.

I use mostly smokeless loads in my H&R TDs and mostly shoot a 275 gr cast bullet at 1050 fps. It is a very pleasant load to shoot out of either OM or LBH Carbine. The 45-55 carbine load with a 405 gr bullet is also quite pleasant in either. Shootng full service 405 M1873 loads at 1300+ fps can be a little rough in the carbine from prone position but it's not uncomfortable to me from sitting, kneeling or standing positions. Full service 500 gr loads do recoil abit and many find them uncomfortable to say the least. I seldom shoot 500 gr bullets in my H&R OM as the 400/405s give excellent service.

The photo shows the OM with a globe front sight not the Beech which is on it now.

Larry Gibson

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a silver plated one bought once and I got the gunshop to store it for me as I was travelling around with work, but after a few months, I got a silly offer on it and let it go.

I have since picked up a Little Big Horn carbine. Mine had a not very user friendly peep sight that just slid up and down the ladder and it was abear to zero. I have fitted a set of open/ladder sights off a Pedersoli and they fit nicely.

I believe H&R sold the machinery to Pedersoli and they based their gun on that.

The Pedersolis improved the breechblock apparently.

The problem seems to be that the screw that holds the Breech Block release lever beds onto a round shaft. This can slip apparently. My gunsmith who deals virtually exclusively in Black Powder firearms and specialises in working on them didn't know what I was talking about when I asked him to remedy the breechblock. He said he sold a batch of them when they came out and has seen them come and go and never heard of anyone having problems with them.

There is a simple fix, replace the breech block with an original (this is a simple fix if you live in America, big drama importing one anywhere else).

The other options are to flatten a section of the round rod/shaft where the screw connects to stop it turning or to drill the rod so that it engages into the hole. Don't take my advice on this, that is how I interpreted it all, do a few searches, there is plenty of info out there.

This may be like the motorcycle I owned, a Kawasaki KLR 650. Many motorcycle sites said how it was necessary to fit the 'doohickey' as it was called to prevent serious engine problems down the track. My local dealer who is in his late 40s and has been specialising on Kawasakis since he was 16 didn't know what I was talkign about. He said he sells a KLR650 every week or so and nearly always has one in the workshop. My mate who works for Kawasaki Australia also didn't know of the problem and the tech guys said that it was a popular 'modification' in the states, but they had never seen one in Australia. Go figure.

If I can figure out how to pull it apart I might modify the breech block. I'l see how I go.

BUY IT!!!! Great gun, butttttt, find out how much a new Pedersoli is first before you start arm wrestling for a price.

[HEAD0001]

I had a standard Officer's model, and I liked it very well. One of the few I regret selling. I only shot the rifle to 150-175 yards. And it was easily minute of milk jug accurate off handed. And that was the way I shot the rifle.

I did not have a problem with the action opening up, but I have heard from a few people who have had that problem.

Main problem I had with the rifle was the cheap flip up-so called vernier sight. The sight was pretty CHEEZZY. But other than that it was a well made rifle IMO.

I paid $550 for mine, and a guy offered me $750 so I sold it. I now wish I hadn't. Tom.

[Tom-ADC]

Main problem I had with the rifle was the cheap flip up-so called vernier sight. The sight was pretty CHEEZZY.

Have to agree on the sight, mickey mouse comes to mind. It has zero maekings on it so when you do zero it in at one distance unless you mark it once you move the adjustment its gone forever.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Have to agree on the sight, mickey mouse comes to mind. It has zero maekings on it so when you do zero it in at one distance unless you mark it once you move the adjustment its gone forever.

MIne was the same, guesswork at best. I have a BPCR 45/70 for long range work, so I will use the Trapdoor for Pat Garrett/ whatever matches. With that in mind I went for a Pedersoli open sight. It has a flip up ladder as well, so I will play with that in time.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/DD20159DEB531E2/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/C8F7A7A68C91170/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/5910E3F3A49AD40/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/6FB1E451F888E31/standard.jpg

...............I have one of the Little Bighorn Commemorative carbines and like it a whole lot. I've heard of the possible breechblock problems but haven't experienced any problems. I've only shot smokless TD authorized loads in it. One thing for sure is the the barrel on this thing is superlative! The carbine is accurate all out of proportion to it's dated design. The peep sight on it is a weak point as mentioned by others, but once set for a load and distance it is entirely effective. The other nice thing is that it is quite an attractive firearm.

I've read that H&R had developed the means of producing that "Advancing Wave" type color casehardening way back over 100 years ago, and it was used up until quite recently, but don't know if it remains so. The little carbine WAS so accurate I'd told the guys shooting the Burrito Match I was going to shoot it until I won with it. I sure wished I'd done more offhand shooting with it before I'd shot my mouth off[smilie=1: First and most telling was that at 50 yards the top of the front sight was visible by only the barest tiny bit over the action. Secondly it's very light out front. And finally, even with the light loads I was using (300gr RCBS over 26.0 H4198) it reacted to the shot, .............so to say. 8-)

IIRC I had to shoot it for about 5 months (we shot EVERY Tuesday) before I finally managed to win. I was about sick to death of it by then! Not one of those scudders would cut me any slack, but it taught me a lesson.

..................Buckshot

[Four Fingers of Death]

IIRC I had to shoot it for about 5 months (we shot EVERY Tuesday) before I finally managed to win. I was about sick to death of it by then! Not one of those scudders would cut me any slack, but it taught me a lesson.

..................Buckshot[/QUOTE]

Ha, ha! My Dad used to say, make sure brain is engaged before starting mouth.

Another saying I heard a lot in the past when guys were bragging and hanging tough, is 'Don't let your mouth write a cheque your body can't cash.'

You eventually delivered the goods though.

Mine is identical, but now has a Pedersoli combo open and ladder sight fitted. No real collector value, mine was cheaper last year than it was in 1973 or whenever they came out. Like the so called collectible Winchester commemoratives, they are worth the same or less dollar value than when they came out in the late 70s, early 80s.

[HEAD0001]

Like the so called collectible Winchester commemoratives, they are worth the same or less dollar value than when they came out in the late 70s, early 80s.



I believe you paid considerably more for your John Wayne Commemoratives than what I did?? Several of my Wincheter's, and definitely the ammo of the collectibles has went way up for me. But then I did not pay retail for them??

If I told you what I paid for JW ammo and rifles on closeout you would cry!! Most profit I have ever made on any rifle if I choose sell. But even if I had paid retail for those items they stil have went up considerably.

I have not seen any Winchester comm's. that are worth less?? Where can those be bought?? Even the same, and I would stil be interested in some of them?? Tom.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Commemoratives were about $7-800 when they came out from memory, which was a huge amout of money in the late 70s and early 80s. Wages for an average guy were around $100-$125 a week . They bob up every now and then and they are about the same price, $700-$800-$900. Most guys with any sort of skill can earn that in a week. Someone in a decent job will earn it in 2-3 days. They also invariably languish on the sheves for a long time.

The ammo may be a better investment if you have a market for it. I had a shoot on a few years ago and my circumstances travellign around the State with work prevented my from reloading ammo for a shoot I wanted to go to. The only ammo I could buy was the 100Year Anniversary John Wayne stuff. $AU82 a box of 50! I bought 300 rounds for the shoot, $AU492 :(

It was nickle cased lead roundnosed and was headstamped DUKE 45 Colt. It was so hot, I had to push the base pin back in every second shot! Don't you just hate that? Expensive weekend!

I've never owned a commemorative, apart from a Classic which I bought very well used. I bought it because I had always wanted a long Octangular Barrelled one and the wood was magnificent. The 'engraving' is so basic it is appalling and I truely don't know why they bothered. I wouldn't mind swapping the Bbl, wood and furniture onto another action. I have gone to sell it once or twice, but everytime I pull it out of the safe, the wood looks so good, it goes back.

[Larry Gibson]

Buckshot

Accurate barrels in the H&Rs is correct:grin:

Some years back I was at a training site in NE Oregon assisting in setting up and training a couple SF A teams coming in from Fort Bragg. We had some time before the teams arrived so myself and a Delta operator (of Mogadishou Black Hawk Down fame - interesting to get some insight on "the rest of the story") were doing some shooting on the range there. He was using a tricked out SOTIC M24 testing some different M118LR ammo at 300 meters. I was shooting at an 8" wide by 13" tall steel plate attached to a steel fence post at 385 yards with my LBH carbine using the M1879 Type III rear sight I'd on it. The load was the Rapine 460250 (275 gr) over 8 gr Bullseye for 1050 fps. Took me 5 shots to get on the steel plate and after the 3rd consecutive hit (made a very authritive "thwack") the Delta guy looked over and said;"bet you can't do that again". Well I did it 9 times out of the next 10 shots. He stood up and said, looking at the M24 with MKIV Leupold scope; " I don't know why I even try......lets have a beer and I want to shoot that trapdoor!" We shot up the rest of my ammo at that steel plate and others out to 500 yards. He was a happy camper and the beer sure tasted good:drinks:

Larry Gibson