bought a plasma cutter and a wire welder...oxyacetylene news!

[Russel Nash]

well.... first the bad news....a calcium carbide plant in kentucky blew up in march. supposdly what they made accounted for 75% of the US's acetylene. so the welding supplier wouldn't let me open a new account for the tanks. the supplier said that there will be a shortage that they will belucky to lucky to supply their current customers.

anywhooo... I bought a plasma cutter and a wire welder.

now I just need to get an air compressor large enough to feed the plasma cutter with enough air.

I am looking to make drop turner and swinger targets for my new USPSA pistol club. I was thinkin of making pepper popper targets but the price for AR400 or better steel is just nuts.

with buying that welder, I get to attend a full 1 day basic mig class.

if you guys have any advice or tips/tricks, I am all ears.

thanks!

[jmsj]

Congratulations on your new tools.
What make and model of plasma and mig did you get?
I spent about 15 years in the welding supply industry years ago and have a 70 amp Miller in my shop now. The one thing I have learned about all plasma cutters is that they like really dry compressed air. I would recommend not only using a water separator on the compressor but also a cartridge type that uses a filter that looks like a roll of toilet paper. The dryer the air the longer the consumables last and the electrodes, nozzles and shields are expensive.
Good luck,

[TCLouis]

I might be wrong, but I think if you go cheap on target metal up front, the replacement costs will more than equal the cost of quality metal in the first place

[Russel Nash]

the welder is a miller "millermatic" 180 auto set.

the plasma cutter is also a miller, a spectrum 375 Xtreme. it was one of their rental units but there is is still plenty of warranty left.

I went ahead and bought the consumables kit for the plasma. as far as gadgets go ...I can get training wheels for the plasma gun:

http://www.scottgrossstore.com/catalog/MIL194883.jpg

LOL!

and then there is a circle cutting attachment:

http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/images/Fig5CircleLOW_000.jpg

when I can make it to a real computer, i'd like to do some more searching say on how to use a template or jig to make the same shape over and over. it sure would beat having to lay these out by hand for each one, one at a time, and then having to carefully trace over that soapstone line with with the plasma gun.

http://mgmtargets.com/tstore/images/mgmtargets/popper_pepper.gif

[Russel Nash]

oh...yeah... I forgot to mention that I did buy the seperate air/water filter that goes on the back of the plasma

[Russel Nash]

duh!

I am making this template thing more complicated than it has to be.

duh!

the electrode tip sticks out 0.415" from the "shield cup". the electrode tip is 0.340" in outside diamter.

so I am thinking all I need to do is make a template out of half inch plywood or medium density fiberboard (MDF) and just reduce the size of the template by 0.170"...half the outside diameter of the electrode tip.

that electrode tip is suppposed to stay a sixteenth to an eighth away from the steel...so a half inch thick material for the template is perfect.

then just let the shield cup ride on top of the plywood as I drag the electrope tip across the edge of the plywood or MDF template.

now if Miller just made a shield cup that wasn't beveled so there would be more surface area bearing or riding on the template.

[crabo]

duh!

I am making this template thing more complicated than it has to be.

duh!

the electrode tip sticks out 0.415" from the "shield cup". the electrode tip is 0.340" in outside diamter.

so I am thinking all I need to do is make a template out of half inch plywood or medium density fiberboard (MDF) and just reduce the size of the template by 0.170"...half the outside diameter of the electrode tip.

that electrode tip is suppposed to stay a sixteenth to an eighth away from the steel...so a half inch thick material for the template is perfect.

then just let the shield cup ride on top of the plywood as I drag the electrope tip across the edge of the plywood or MDF template.

now if Miller just made a shield cup that wasn't beveled so there would be more surface area bearing or riding on the template.

Those templates will work fine. You can finish out mdf so you don't need to do any real grinding on your metal if you have everything set up right.

[akajun]

I have this compressor and bought it from northern. It is the best home compressor I have used, and better than most big shop compressors. Quiet, never has to struggle to keep up even with my blast cabinet, sandblaster, die grinders or Plasma cutter.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_158284_158284

[justashooter]

oh...yeah... I forgot to mention that I did buy the seperate air/water filter that goes on the back of the plasma

drying your compressed air for plasma use dramatically increases tool life. summer humidity makes the wettest air, and will erode your plasma nozzle very fast, making accurate cuts problematic.

[scrapcan]

Get yourself a high quality auto darkening welding helmet. By good quality get one that has different setting so you can weld, cut, grind etc.. with the helmet on.

I have three of varying quality and the last one I bought was a Jackson. The other two have not been used since, I like the additioanl features with the particular unit I bought. They are a bit higher in price to get top quality, but you will notice the difference.

Also get a cartridge that has replaceable battery. I have one that recharges from sunlight or arc, but if you don't use it for some time and it is not in light you will have to let it charge for 30 minutes before use.

And you did good, I wish I had a plasma cutter. There are some things the oxy-acetylene are still needed for, but that plasma would just be fun.

Then learn about the different shielding gases. It really makes a difference when you use the right gases (no need to ask how I learned that the hard way). This includes gastype and pressure for in shop with controlled airflow and outside where you have absolutely no control.

Have lots of fun, you really can cut twice!!

[RU shooter]

The plasma torches are handy to have I ran a robotic plasma cutter for the past 20 yrs. The one we had was nice you would draw a outline of your part on paper ,tape it to the table and the optical "eye" would follow the line and cut your part . If your cutting offhand one little tip is to slightly angle the tip towards the direction your cutting go at a nice steady even speed and it helps if your pulling the torch towards you when you cut .

Tim

[Russel Nash]

thanks guys for all the advice. I'll probably pick up some steel soon and an Argon/CO2 bottle. I'm kinda left scratching my head...the welder takes a different kinda female plug to plug into from what the plasma cutter uses. I bought some new 30 amp 2 pole breakers.

I might end up with two different outlets running directly out of my electrical panel.

I have been browsing St. Louis Craig's List looking for air compressors.

[Russel Nash]

well, I put in the new 30 amp two pole breaker.

I also did plug in the plasma cutter, but it won't kick on fully until it senses pressurized air, but I did get to see the lights come on and the fan/s kick in.

The welder did the same thing. with the limited space in my basement, I am thinking I will just get one of those racks with the wheels to roll both of them around on. the other bonus is that it will keep both of them off the basement's damp floor.

I also picked up the argon/co2 bottle today.

I swapped the female plug out so I can plug in the welder, which still leaves me scratching my head about how to plug in the plasma cutter. hmmmn...

i am going to pick up some steel tomorrow.

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=Russel Nash;1261199]

The welder did the same thing. with the limited space in my basement, I am thinking I will just get one of those racks with the wheels to roll both of them around on. the other bonus is that it will keep both of them off the basement's damp floor.
/QUOTE]

Think,,, I can make, instead of I will get one, make it I will get some wheels and make one.[smilie=w:

[Russel Nash]

ya, know, i had that exact same thought.

i went ahead and bought the first one.

from lowe's... :groner:

made by task force.... :groner::groner:

they used square steel tube which they bent into a J shape. so i am left wondering how could i bend square tube like that successfully without it crushing or collapsing on me.

theirs looks like this:

http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/164774_lg.gif

i do actually need another cart for the plasma cutter.

[scrapcan]

R_N

You need ot look on the Miller website forum or the Hobart forums and you will find more than you need on making a cart.

For the tubing bender look at lindsay publications, they have plans for making a square tube/flat strap bender.

You are headed down another very fun hobby! Next you need a lathe.

As far as the plugs not matching, just replace the plugs on the equipment to ones taht will match and carry the amperage and voltage you need. The side cutters and plugs are just down the isle at the store.

I would bet if you post a picture here soemone will help out.

[Swede44mag]

I have this compressor and bought it from northern. It is the best home compressor I have used, and better than most big shop compressors. Quiet, never has to struggle to keep up even with my blast cabinet, sandblaster, die grinders or Plasma cutter.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_158284_158284

What Blast Cabinet do you have is it big enough to hold a Jeep rim?
I have been thinking about buying one to do all the rims for my Jeep Cherokee.

[454PB]

if you only plan to weld steel, you don't need argon.......which is quite expensive.

[Longwood]

they used square steel tube which they bent into a J shape. so i am left wondering how could i bend square tube like that successfully without it crushing or collapsing on me.

theirs looks like this:

http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/164774_lg.gif



I like to use square tubing for lots of projects.
I don't try to bend it. instead I cut it at an angle then flip one piece and weld the angled ends together. A 22.5 angle will get you a 45 degree corner. A 45 degree will get you a perfect 90.
Working with angle can be a pain in the keester in comparison.
Get yourself a nice abrasive chop saw. They do such a nice job of making true angles and cuts which makes for easy fitting.

[Longwood]

A couple of things to keep in mind.
When they design those factory carts, the main considerations are how cheap and simple can it be made. And most important, is how can they get it into as small a box as possible, that is the exact size to stack hundreds of them, perfectly, into a shipping container of a specific size.
Don't rush the job. Think it out. Do you need a nice table on it? How about a small shelf under a small table.
Don't forget some decent hooks that are large enough for your cables/leads etc.
I like using 1/4" x 1 1/4" flat bar for my cable hooks.
Strategically placed holes or welded on chain links can sure help if you ever want to sling it and lift it into a truck.

[akajun]

What Blast Cabinet do you have is it big enough to hold a Jeep rim?
I have been thinking about buying one to do all the rims for my Jeep Cherokee.

I have the medium size one from Harbor Frieght, It is not big enough to do a jeep rim. I just use if for preping gun parts for parkerizing.

I do have a small pressure pot Sandblaster, the 40lb model from HF. Wear a respirator, faceshiled, gloves and jumpsuit, use fine construction sand and you can blast your rims.

[Russel Nash]

454PB on the first page wrote:


f you only plan to weld steel, you don't need argon.......which is quite expensive.
__________________

yeah, I know, I bought the 80 cubic feet bottle already. 200 bucks to buy the bottle and then $25 for a refill.

I just want to try my hand at Mig, to see how pretty the welds turn out.

I am used to stick welding, especially with 7018's where there is a bunch of slag to chip hammer and wire brush off.

the target systems I am thinking of building really do need to get painted or heck maybe even get powder coated. hopefully, pumping argon to the wire weld will allow me to get straight to painting instead of chipping and wire wheeling the weld clean/pretty.

Besides, at some point in the future I might just get a Tig welder too.

I am going to try to make the Mark III version of my ingot moulds.

Speaking of packaging and boxes just the right size... the Mark III version of my ingot mould will be sized just right length and width wise to fit in a US Postal Service Medium flat rate box.

A'yup, I have been eyeballing metal working lathes too. I have a friend who is dealer in suppressors over in Missouri. He is thinking about getting his Class III S.O.T. so he could manufacture suppressors.

Anywhooo...I just thought it would be neat to able to weld...Tig ....stainless.

The pipe fitters I have seen weld do some really awesome looking work. I call it "giving them muscles", but I just heard another phrase...."a stack of dimes" with respect to how the weld looks.

and who knows...maybe some artwork at a later date.

[Russel Nash]

I bought a beast of a metal cutting bandsaw (bridge saw?? scissor saw??) last year.

Here is the thread:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=85381&highlight=bandsaw

It was one of my Craig's List finds.

I'm not real keen on a chop saw with an abrasive wheel. sorry, but...the shooting of sparks everywhere and the noise too, kinda bug me. especially in my "woodshop" with all that sawdust around.

[AkMike]

My stuff is much more heavy duty but I think for general steel work you can use "Inner-shield " flux core wire w/o any gas easier and cheaper. Yes there is the splatter BB's for clean up later on but if you spray the surrounding area with butter flavor Pam the clean up is much easier.

AND it'll smell like fresh buttered pop corn while you work! :D

For the layout work for the plasma use magic markers and NOT soapstone. The air will blow the soapstone away before the 'flame' gets there.

[Russel Nash]

oh, yeah, man, I am digging the silver colored sharpie markers.

one of the things I might try making is a circle cutter for the plasma:

http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/26/4d/6e82_2.JPG

It's used like this:

http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/images/Fig5CircleLOW_000.jpg

[AkMike]

That'd be a cool toy if there was a need for it.

[Longwood]

454PB on the first page wrote:



yeah, I know, I bought the 80 cubic feet bottle already. 200 bucks to buy the bottle and then $25 for a refill.

I just want to try my hand at Mig, to see how pretty the welds turn out.

I am used to stick welding, especially with 7018's where there is a bunch of slag to chip hammer and wire brush off.

the target systems I am thinking of building really do need to get painted or heck maybe even get powder coated. hopefully, pumping argon to the wire weld will allow me to get straight to painting instead of chipping and wire wheeling the weld clean/pretty.

Besides, at some point in the future I might just get a Tig welder too.

I am going to try to make the Mark III version of my ingot moulds.

Speaking of packaging and boxes just the right size... the Mark III version of my ingot mould will be sized just right length and width wise to fit in a US Postal Service Medium flat rate box.

A'yup, I have been eyeballing metal working lathes too. I have a friend who is dealer in suppressors over in Missouri. He is thinking about getting his Class III S.O.T. so he could manufacture suppressors.

Anywhooo...I just thought it would be neat to able to weld...Tig ....stainless.

The pipe fitters I have seen weld do some really awesome looking work. I call it "giving them muscles", but I just heard another phrase...."a stack of dimes" with respect to how the weld looks.

and who knows...maybe some artwork at a later date.

If you are good with the low hydrogen rods such as 7018, you will love shielded gas MIG welding. Much easier and nicer looking than rod or inner-shield MIG.
I have a big bottle and use 75% Argon 25% CO2 and gladly pay the price for the convenience.
I keep my flow down as low as I can get away with, and a bottle seems to last a very long time.

I carry a silver art pencil that I get at a stationery store for making fine lines on dark and often oily steel. The Sharpies are nice too but the silver pencil with a pocket clip often seems to work a bit better.

Forget the stack of dimes. That is a whole different method of welding that the pipe welders use. They put on a large bead with a fairly small rod and use a special fast setting rod and a special technique. They do a lot of oscillating of the rod. It sure does look cool when they compete for best looking weld. There are MIG and Submerged Arc machines, that do a better job now-days.

I got a wild hair in a tight orifice last year and bought a $2000+ Lincoln, TIG welder. I still have not messed with it enough to get the hang of it. I have been welding for about 35 years and thought it would be easy to switch over but I can see that I need some lessons.
The welder took up way too much room in my shed and I could not work around it so it is at a friends house now and we are building on a larger building so we have room for it and a work area for it.

[Longwood]

That'd be a cool toy if there was a need for it.

With a tiny bit of practice, they will make a cut that looks like it was made with a lathe or milling machine.
Many years ago, I bought one then modified it a little (mainly lengthened) so I could tape it securely to my torch to sort of make the torch into the tool
I do not like the front wheel at all, so I removed and discarded it. Mine is for a gas cutting torch but the idea is the same.
I rotate the tool around the center point only. One point is enough and easier to concentrate on.
I never could get the end wheel to be useful. I either arrange the piece so I can walk around the work or rotate the work. I use a thick piece of flat with a 1/8"X1" piece of flat bar over lapping one edge a little for a torch guide for straight cuts so I don't need the the wheel thingy there either.
The tricky part is making absolutely sure to start and stop the cut/cuts in the waste to get that perfect edge on the part you are saving. Starting the cut with the tool tip out of the center punch mark then carefully sliding the tip into the punch mark is the way to do it.

[theperfessor]

I made a bender to put a 3" radius (measured to the inside of the bent tube) in 1" square 16 gauge tubing. I was making greenhouse carts as a way to fund a year of my college tuition. There are a couple of ways to bend hollow materials. Because of the way my bender operated I welded up a ridge of material around 180* arc which was turned to a smooth contour on the bending die face. As the tubing was rolled around the die it collapsed the inner face of the tube inwards and allowed for a smooth bend with no kinks. If you would cut through the tube at the bend you would see a sort of an "H" profile, with the sides flat and the inner and outer faces collapsed smoothly. It was really a nice, strong bend.

Loaned this to a guy years ago and haven't seen it or him since.

[-06]

Forget the Acetylene. I have been using Propane for years and can cut anything ACEt can. It is 1/3 the price and available everywhere--without all those stinking forms to fill out. Just change the tip of your torch and you will be set. Have a Hobart 175/Argon that does well, a Lincoln AC/DC "buzz box", and a portable. Get a Propane tip and you will like it. Just picked up a new tip at a flea market for $3.

[Russel Nash]

AkMike wrote:


That'd be a cool toy if there was a need for it.

at the price Miller is asking for theirs, I think I will just build my own.

As far a need goes, well, a lot of my USPSA, IDPA, and steel plate shooting involves shooting at circular shaped plates.

just doing an image.google.com search for "plasma circle cutter" yielded enough pics of homemade circle jigs that I think I can figure it out. a lot of it is geared to off road trucks and jeeps.

but anywhooo... getting back to need.... No one needs a bright yellow Hummer H2/H3 to go to the grocery store. No one needs a Corvette to drive back and forth to work with....

no one needs a rifle chambered in .50 Razorback?

see where I am going with this?

anywhooo...tinkering in the shop is still safer and cheaper than going down to the boobie bars. :bigsmyl2:

[Russel Nash]

man! this thing makes some sweet/pretty looking welds. [smilie=w: just turn the autoset switch to 0.030 for that diameter wire, then set the other switch for the thickness of the steel and I was off to the races.

It certainly does make a different noise than stick...it's not that bacon frying in a frying pan kinda noise.

I did get the wire stuck to the tip a couple of times. whoops! at least it shipped with 4 tips in the box. I think I might have to stock up.:groner:

as far as the plasma cutter goes...well...using a piece of wood for a straight edge didn't work out too well. for the short little sections I had to cut, I would have been better off just free handing them, and that's just what I did for one of them.

whoever that was who posted up the autodarkening hoods was spot on. when I was running the plasma, every now and then my hood would kick on and I couldn't see the line. :x

so I guess a newer one with a switch for how dark it gets is in order.

I am thinking it would be nice if I could add a table to my Wells horizontal bandsaw into a vertical bandsaw. My Wells bandsaw looks like this:

http://www.componentsandparts.com/Northeast-/Automotive-/Wells-saw-horizontal-bandsaw-8M-machine-wellsaw-picture-3.jpg

[AkMike]

You might not have my problem since you're using gas. BUT with innershield wire the tip teds to plug up with a carbon looking dust that will stop the wire sooner or later. I drill it out with a regular druill bit just slightly larger than my .045 wire. That saves buying alot of tips!!!

[akajun]

Russell, for a lens with a plasma cutter, I use the googles with the shade lens ( i think #5 or #6 )that I use with my cutting torch. It is dark, but not as dark as a welding hood so I can see what Im doing, and the plasma cutter provides plenty of light anyway.

[Russel Nash]

I went ahead and splurged and bought a new hood. A Lincoln brand labeled "Viking". it has adjustable sensitivity, delay, and darkness, from 9 to 13. the only thing I don't like about the hood is that black shiney/glossy finish. The comparable hood by Miller was an extra 60 bucks.

I guess I will keep my old auto darkening hood for work. Anything too new or too shiney looking might actually sprout legs and walk off the job. Arrgghh....

I was thinking at some point I would like to spruce a hood up with some airbrushing or maybe just some krylon fusion spray paint (out of a rattle can).

this is probably not all ya'll's thing, but at least I still have an appreciation for the skill and effort that went into these:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Projects/IMG_7946.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Projects/IMG_5964-1.jpg

anywhoo...just thinking that a welding hood would be a good way to show off some airbrushing skills once I got to that level.

I am fiddling around with my first drop turner target....cutting...drilling....and welding it all up.

I'll try to post a pic when I get some primer on it.

[Russel Nash]

whoopss...I probably didn't make it all that clear, but that ^^^ above is NOT my work.

[Russel Nash]

here is my first project...kinda done... and primer'ed. I am wondering about finish paint colors. Black, maybe???

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/gryphon1994/2011-05-17215104.jpg

[Russel Nash]

:groner:

well, duh!

I just discovered that my plasma cutter's torch can take a drag cup and shield, so I should be able to use wooden/MDF templates. The other bonus is that I won't have to keep the tip a sixteenth to an eighth of an inch from the steel.

So I guess first thing Monday morning I will have to call up the welding supply place and ask them if they have the drag cup, shield, electrode, etc, in stock.

I have been checking out St. Louis Craig's List again, and I found this Walker Turner vertical metal cutting bandsaw:

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/2389926777.html

which leads to this YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOnADm9igQo&feature=youtu.be

hmmn...that's a new video with it actually running. It's kinda noisey....hmmn...??? blade guides not set correctly? bad bearing(s)?

[Russel Nash]

the perfessor wrote:


I made a bender to put a 3" radius (measured to the inside of the bent tube) in 1" square 16 gauge tubing. I was making greenhouse carts as a way to fund a year of my college tuition. There are a couple of ways to bend hollow materials. Because of the way my bender operated I welded up a ridge of material around 180* arc which was turned to a smooth contour on the bending die face. As the tubing was rolled around the die it collapsed the inner face of the tube inwards and allowed for a smooth bend with no kinks. If you would cut through the tube at the bend you would see a sort of an "H" profile, with the sides flat and the inner and outer faces collapsed smoothly. It was really a nice, strong bend.

Loaned this to a guy years ago and haven't seen it or him since.

that sounds like a neat tool. I wish you had a pic of it.

Your story about never seeing the guy again reminds of something I read as a signature line on somebody's thread posts somewhere....

"If you loan a guy twenty bucks and you never see him again, it was money well spent."