9MM OAL for 356-120-TC

[Ed_Shot]

Have a new CZ 75B 9MM, my first auto. Some experience loading 9MM and a wealth of good info from this forum. Loading Lyman 358242 and 356402 sized .357 using WW + 2% tin with SuperMoly. All cavities droping slugs between 121 and 122 gr. Using Lyman data from 4th CB Handbook. After measuring my brains out using fired cases with sized slugs inserted; the MAX COAL for 356402 in my CZ is 1.120" (that's where the slug touches the lands). I'm loading 356402 to the Lyman spec of 1.110" OAL and allowing an OAL variation of 1.108" to 1.112". More than .005" SETBACK but not much. I put a caliper on every round as I load. My 358242 has a little more room with a MAX COAL of 1.083". Again loading 358242 to the Lyman spec of 1.065" OAL and allowing an OAL variation of 1.065" to 1.070". Been once to the range with 100 rds of each loaded with 3.5 gr. Red Dot. No pressure signs, perfect function, no leading and the 358242 turned more than one 1" 5 shot grp at 7 yds. The 356402 was a close second. Everything seems to work safe and well.

Read good things about Lee's 356-120-TC for 9MM here. If I buy the mould should I use the Lyman data for 356402? What should be the standard OAL for 356-120-TC using Lyman data?

[fecmech]

If you use 1.050 with the Lee 120 TC you will have the same amount of bullet in the case as 356402 at the Lyman specs. I derived that from measurements that were given to me by board members who had the 356402 and have used them in 3 different 9MM's with no problems. Both bullets have the same bearing surface but Lyman has a longer thinner nose. The Lyman bullet is .625 long and the Lee that I have is .560. Hope this helps. Nick

[Ed_Shot]

Thanks, thats what I needed to know. I'd never find that in a reloading manual. I'm hoping that 356-120-TC will allow more setback in my CZ.

[prickett]

Have a new CZ 75B 9MM, my first auto. Some experience loading 9MM and a wealth of good info from this forum. Loading Lyman 358242 and 356402 sized .357 using WW + 2% tin with SuperMoly. All cavities droping slugs between 121 and 122 gr. Using Lyman data from 4th CB Handbook. After measuring my brains out using fired cases with sized slugs inserted; the MAX COAL for 356402 in my CZ is 1.120" (that's where the slug touches the lands). I'm loading 356402 to the Lyman spec of 1.110" OAL and allowing an OAL variation of 1.108" to 1.112". More than .005" SETBACK but not much. I put a caliper on every round as I load. My 358242 has a little more room with a MAX COAL of 1.083". Again loading 358242 to the Lyman spec of 1.065" OAL and allowing an OAL variation of 1.065" to 1.070". Been once to the range with 100 rds of each loaded with 3.5 gr. Red Dot. No pressure signs, perfect function, no leading and the 358242 turned more than one 1" 5 shot grp at 7 yds. The 356402 was a close second. Everything seems to work safe and well.

Read good things about Lee's 356-120-TC for 9MM here. If I buy the mould should I use the Lyman data for 356402? What should be the standard OAL for 356-120-TC using Lyman data?

I'm going thru this exercise myself. I beagled my mold and size my 356-120-TC to .358".

I tried 1.03" and had a bunch of failures to feed (nose high jams).

My current OAL is 1.066". I also experimented and found I could load up to 1.078" before the boolits started contacting the lands. I figure 1.066" allows a little over .01" of slop in the seater. When I measure my loads, I find an occasional 1.075" in the lot, so this allowance seems prudent. 1.066" cycled flawlessly when I manually cycled them in my CZ (manually cycled a magazine of rounds thru the gun without actually shooting it). Tomorrow, I'll confirm they work in real life.

I seated as long as 1.088" and had the boolits successfully go to battery, but want to keep them off the rifling for absolute certain going to battery.

[Cherokee]

For my 1911 with a Briley match barrel, I found 1.055" to work best for me with the 356120TC Lee. Although an OAL of 1.068 chamberd fine (drop test in the barrel) and would cycle manually, I still had feeding problems in actual use until I went to 1.055". Good bullet. I also use Lyman 356402 but it's not as reliable for some reason undiscovered as yet. I use these same bullets in 38 Super at higher velocity, they work fine.

[Bullwolf]

I occasionally use a Lyman 2-Cavity 356402 for 9mm Luger.
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/medium/249/249038.jpg
I size the bullets to .3575 with a Lyman 450 lube sizer, using Orange Magic lube.

I seat to an OAL of 1.15 - it seems a bit longer than what everyone else is using, but it has always worked well for me, in my guns.

I am not a huge fan of this boolit, but my cousin loves it. It has been shot a fair amount through both of our Beretta 92 FS pistols, although his quite a bit more than mine.

There is nothing wrong with the boolit style, but it just looks funny to me, and reminds me of the end of a pencil. Despite the flat triangle point, it feeds just fine.

I prefer the Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL356-124-2R for 9mm Luger. I can cast quite a few very quickly, and load them at the size they drop. I don't need to size them to lube them, just tumble lube and they are ready to go. Although to be fair, I could always pan lube, or tumble lube the 356402 too I suppose.

I think it is mostly an aesthetics issue with me, since both boolits shoot quite well. I just personally have a hard time getting used to the the truncated cone boolit is all.

The Lee TL356-124-2R when loaded just resembles more of what I expect traditional RN ball ammunition to look like.

- Bullwolf

[prickett]

My current OAL is 1.066". I also experimented and found I could load up to 1.078" before the boolits started contacting the lands. I figure 1.066" allows a little over .01" of slop in the seater. When I measure my loads, I find an occasional 1.075" in the lot, so this allowance seems prudent. 1.066" cycled flawlessly when I manually cycled them in my CZ (manually cycled a magazine of rounds thru the gun without actually shooting it). Tomorrow, I'll confirm they work in real life.


Just returned from the range and am giving 1.066" a huge thumbs up. Both my CZ75 and SIG 226 worked w/o a hitch.

[lead Foot]

Good post. Great threads. Dose any one have the bearing surface length of the LEE 356-120-tc and the Lyman 356402. Thanks. The RCBS 09-124-cn is .333
lead foot.

[fecmech]

My Lee 120 tc's run approx .275-.280 bearing area and from my notes the Lyman 356402 is the same (I don't actually have the Lyman bullet, info is from other members).

PS. How about the Lee 105 SWC bearing surface?? I'm thinking about that one for my .380.

[lead Foot]

My Lee 120 tc's run approx .275-.280 bearing area and from my notes the Lyman 356402 is the same (I don't actually have the Lyman bullet, info is from other members).

PS. How about the Lee 105 SWC bearing surface?? I'm thinking about that one for my .380.

Thanks fecmech. I just bought a new Norinco 1911 and OL is only 1.030. That has the boolit engagded in the lands. I'm getting max speed from under the starting load. I'm going to get the throat cut to suit. I'll order the LEE 120tc 6 banger today:grin:lead foot;

[daviddoo]

Is anyone using the TL356-124-TC?

[Shiloh]

Is anyone using the TL356-124-TC?

I get tumbling at 50 feet. Boolits striking the target sideways. No groups, patterns.

It is undersized with moderate leading. I could add some lino to get a harder, larger boolit, or beagle.
I have a LEE standard groove version mold on order.
There are posts that say TL boolits are tricky in 9mm's

Shiloh

[daviddoo]

Thanks for the info Shilo. I wish I'd found this site before I bought the mold. Oh well, live and learn. What is the mold designation that you have on order if you don't mind me asking?

[GabbyM]

More 9mm Truncated cone measurements:

Have a Saeco 9-122-TC here. Mold #377.
Numbers are a little different than ones listed here for the Lee.

O.L. is .551”
Bearing surface is .322” including the very small bevel base.
Meplat is .205’ with radius .185” to start of radius.
Grease grove is .090” W by .018” deep. I.e. grove measures .312”.

My Saeco cast at Approximately .357” from 2/6 alloy. If you’re looking for a .358” you’d be better off going with a different brand. With WW metal a .357” bullet would be iffy luck to get. For the fat 9 bullets in TC I use a Magma 35 revolver bullet with small crimp grove.

38-125 FP BB is the Magma designation.

O.L. .559”
Bearing surface .315”
Meplat .215”

That extra .010” of Meplat and smaller radius makes the flat appear much larger than a Saeco but it doesn’t look like much on paper. But it is 3 grains heavier and has the extra .010” of meplat. It cast at around .3585” so easily sizes down to .357”. they are supposed to drop .359 to .360. The crimp grove gets covered in a 9x19mm case.

The Lee 125 grain rnfp revolver bullet is another good one for fat 9mm.

Expander balls in my RCBS and Dillon Powder through are to short to expand 9mm cases to the depth these TC bullet seat at. They fit for a 124 grain RN ball profile which seats much more shallow. 9mm cases are thick as they taper in thickness. A Lyman M die will get your brass opened up to receive these bullets. Your boolits will not totally open the brass your bullet will be boat tailed at the point where the standard expander plug stopped.

[Shiloh]

Thanks for the info Shilo. I wish I'd found this site before I bought the mold. Oh well, live and learn. What is the mold designation that you have on order if you don't mind me asking?

Like You, I tried the LEE TLTC mold. It is a no go.
I have the LEE conventional lube groove 120 gr TC mold. Says it'll be here today. Had the top punch for it already arrive from E-bay, $10.50 shipped.

A six banger mold LEE #90387. My opinion is the sixes are a better made mold.
I have many of each.

Shiloh

[daviddoo]

Thanks for all the great info. It appears that a new mold is definitly needed. I do like the truncated cone style bullet. Think I'll give the non TL one a try based on the good success yall have experienced.

[Doble Troble]

I seat mine until just a bit of the driving band peeks out of the case. OK, I'll go measure. It's 1.036". It feeds in a Ruger SR9, 9 mm 1911 and BUL M5.

[lead Foot]

Has anyone had there throat cut to get a better over all length. :holysheep Gee that did'nt sound good ~ but you know what I mean. And did it improve accuracy, pressure, etc.
Lead foot;

[Ed_Shot]

Got my new 356-120-TC mold in the mail last week. Using WW+2%tin they drop at 123.5 gr, .359 dia and .560 long. Sized to .357 in my Lyman 450 with #402 top punch they remain .560 long. My 356402 with the same alloy drops at 122.5 gr., .359 dia and .625 long. Sized to .357 with the same H&I and top punch my 356402 comes out .612 (+/- .001) long. Obviously the tip of the 356402 bullet is touching the top of the #402 top punch during sizing. This certainly affects where the sholder of the 356402 bearing surface is at a given OAL. I agree that the bearing surfaces of 356402 and 356-120 are identical.

The MAX COAL for 356-120 in my CZ 75B is 1.070. Haven't been to the range yet but I'm loading 356-120 to an OAL of 1.057 to match Lyman data for 356402 loaded with an OAL of 1.110.

[trapdoor1873]

I found that the lyman 356402 sized to .358 with white label BAC lube seated to 1.080 with 6.0 grains of Win. 540 to be a very good load for my Ruger SR9C.

[MtGun44]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52653&d=1314925371

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52652&d=1314925371

Bill

[Jkrem]

At risk of revisiting ground well plowed, I’m trying my first attempt at reloading 9mm with the Lee 356-120 TC bullets that I traded for with a member here. I read every thread and sticky on this I could find, and ended up with a COAL of 1.076 that fed flawlessly in my 92S magazines, and does not appear to contact the threads. Bullets were .357-.358 and I ran them through the .358 sizer and tumble lubed with ALOX. I’m using Hornady dies (also bought from a member here), and crimped the bare minimum I needed to for them to drop into my 92S barrel. Loaded 3.4gr Bullseye, and am using Winchester small pistol primers. I unfortunately don’t have a bullet puller to check bullet diameter after crimping. I’ll check back in after I shoot these later in the week. Please PM me if there is something obvious I have missed for this first try.

[Ed_Shot]

Sounds like you have all the bases covered. Some like ALOX and some don't. Let us know how they shoot.

[Jkrem]

Some good221851 news, the load cycles the action of the 92S just fine and it appears all 25 rounds were accounted for at 10 yards. I was shooting by myself and lost every single case so I couldn’t check for pressure signs. Saved the rest to try again where I can capture the cases. The backer of my target was full of holes so I’m not sure if some of these are keyholes. More work needed.

[Ed_Shot]

I doubt you had any pressure signs with BE 3.4 gr. at your OAL. Does your barrel show signs of leading.....light streaks are normal. In my experience every 9MM barrel is a little different animal. Great start! Keep it up!

[Landshark9025]

I have shot many thousands of rounds of this bullet. A lot of that over Bullseye. None using Alox though. Some Powder Coated, some traditional lube, some Ben's Liquid Lube. My absolute cleanest bores, hands down were lubed and sized through a Star with medium/soft lube and then two coats of BLL. The rest of the gun wasn't excessively dirty. But I got better accuracy with PC. YMMV.

3.4g is a good place to start- especially for function test. If you do a load workup, you'll likely find a sweet spot that will give you satisfactory groups. This is a favored 9mm bullet of many here for a reason.

I found Bullseye to be a good powder for it. HP-38/W-231 to also be a good powder.

[sigep1764]

I have a similar boolit that is an exact copy of the Lyman. Tom at Accurate makes it, the 358 120B. My very first mold was the Lee 356-120tc and it dropped undersized for me. Awesome operating mold otherwise with the sprue cutting handle and the ability to drop a ton of boolits. The Accurate mold is a 5 cavity and it drops 359-360. I seat the entire bearing surface in the case at 1.060 over 3 grains of red dot. That boolit feeds in every 9mm I own. Easy on the lead and powder reserves. I don't know about you guys, but I love the look of the TC boolit.