H&G Prices... WOW

[MikeS]

Hi All.

I know that H&G moulds are worth more than others, but WOW, I just saw on eBay, a 4 cavity #45 go for $292! and a 4 cavity #118 (which I was kind of wanting back at it's opening bid of $80.00) go for $280! I could MAYBE see that kind of money if they were a 6 cavity or 10 cavity H&G mould, but that kind of money for a 4 cavity? I bet the seller gets quite a surprise at what gramps old moulds bring!

[Texasflyboy]

You would be amazed at what some people pay for NIB Hensley & Gibbs moulds.

I've watched my hand reach into my pocket and plunk down a truly stupid amount of money for a NIB Hensley & Gibbs mould because....because....because....

...when I figure out how to finish that sentence I will come back and post it here.

I am embarrassed to admit how much I paid for this one:

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/503SX/503SX3.jpg

I've sold less than 5 in the 20 years I've been collecting and I still want all 5 back.

Are you listening Donald?

I want it back man. I don't know what I was thinking when I sold you that pristine 6 cavity #331.

:-)

Tom in VA

[white eagle]

so whats the attraction ?
old, good ,..what "?

[cabezaverde]

so whats the attraction ?
old, good ,..what "?

Never used one have you?

[Texasflyboy]

so whats the attraction ?
old, good ,..what "?

I could go on and on as to why people love them but the best answer is to use one.

Properly used, a Hensley & Gibbs mould is a joy to use. The bullets are well formed, within tenths of a grain of each other (even on 6, 8, and 10 cavity moulds), drop from the cavities like shelled peas, and seem to work better the more than you use them.

They are well made, dimensionally accurate, and faithfully reproduce some of the best designs ever created.

That's my .02.

[nanuk]

the way I am starting to look at all this is this:

I have spent a quite a bit of money on moulds I don't, and will never use.

I am now selling them to generate cash to recycle in to new moulds designed and recommended by the good folks on CB.

I figure I may as well start with good products.

And when you compare j-words and the prices we have to pay for them, even $300 is not out of line. I grabbed a few hundred pounds of WW a couple years ago. I can easily make the moulds pay for themselves.

and as my hunting tastes change, I think Cast will do EVERYTHING I need.

would I pay $300 for a mould?? For sure if it was exactly what I needed. Would I chance it cause it May prove handy sometime down the road? Not likely, but I may need it down the road and then the premium to get one would still be worth it.

Some guys on here shoot thousands of boolits a year. To buy that many up here, would cost well over $1000.

that puts it into perspective for me

[shooter93]

I have a number of Hand G molds and they do work great and are very accurately made.....that being said I also have a number of molds from the custom makers here and they are the equal to H and G in both respects.

[bhn22]

You could sell a one dollar bill for five bucks on e-bay if you word your ad right. Less auction fees, and paypal extortion, leaving you about 99 cents, net.

[casterofboolits]

Nothing comes close to an H&G mould. I have several four, six, eight and one ten cavity. Pre heat them and start casting. You have to work hard to cast a bad boolit with an H&G mould. I wish I had bought more of them.

If you can buy one for a decent price, jump on it! I'm presently trying to talk a buddy out of a like new, six cavity for the H&G #68 200 grain SWCBB. I think we're down to what it will cost me.

I have two eight cavity and one four cavity H&G 68 moulds made with the same cherry. But, I cast a couple million boolits out of them when I had my boolit business and they are getting a bit worn. They still make good boolits, but I want some back up. Other wise, I will have to buy a couple of the Lyman #68 clones.

[MtGun44]

I have a number of H&G molds, and they are excellent molds. You guys should try a Mihec
mold if you think "nothing comes close". You are wrong.

Bill

[ChuckS1]

I have both. None of my H&G molds are bowed in the middle like my Mihec H&G 68 aluminum mold was that threw out-of-round bullets.

[Jack Stanley]

In the early eighties I bought a four cavity H&G number sixty-seven so I could make my 788 act like a 32WCF . Over the years , I've bought several more of them in different styles and made more than enough bullets to pay for them .

But why did I buy them ? Quantity without having to fuss with them to make them work right . They make high quality bullets and all I have to do is just show the mold hot lead .

Over the years I think I've only sold three , a nine m/m version I rarely used . A six cavity double end wadcutter for .38 Special and Sagamore-one got my six cavity .44 wadcutter mold . I was trying to buy a mold at the auction site once and bid what Ballisti-cast could have made and shipped a new one . No , I didn't get it ..... someone else wanted it even more than that .

Oddly enough , the 788 I was using years ago is long gone but I still have the mold . I'm still using the bullets I make like a 32WCF in a different 788 rifle though :lol:

Jack

[Shooter6br]

Got a H & G #50 4 cav froma friend for $70. he knew he could have gotten more for it ( with handles) but said he wanted me to have a good mold not the Lee's i have been using. he threw in a Lyman single cav 45 acp 195 grainer. # 452288. Never meet in person He is 3000miles away but a great friend , Not only discuss shooting but life in general............:bigsmyl2:

[MtGun44]

Early on, Mihec got an off-spec batch of aluminum that moved when he milled the cavities. He
took them back and replaced them at his cost. You should send that mold back. I have about
5 or 6 Mihec molds and I got one with a warranty problem. He immediately replaced it with
a perfect mold. IIRC, he bought his own NC mill soon thereafter, taking all the quality into
his own hands. Early on, some or all of the actually mill work had been farmed out.

I will restate - IMO, as a person that owns and uses both H&G and Mihec molds, they are
at least equal in quality. Both are extremely good molds and easy to cast with and produce
extremely good boolits. Several of my Mihec molds have extremely nice to use HP setups using
the Cramer system.

Bill

[btroj]

But Bill, the Mihec moulds are still being made and therefore fail to have any mystical properties.
I am sure H & G moulds are nice but I will not pay the kinds of prices people want for them. I somehow manage to get by quite nicely with more common moulds.
I find the Mihec and NOE moulds to be very well made and they cast very nice bullets. They meet my needs and that is all I care.

[CJR]

Many years ago, I had H&G build me two moulds (#292 Truncated 45ACP), eight cavities each, that were matched so that all bullets were 1/2 grain or less from either mould. It cost me a bunch of money, but they are excellent to use and produce outstanding bullets. They are constantly used and cherished, like the fine works of art they are, and will be passed on to my sons/grandsons.

Best regards,

CJR

[Fredx10sen]

I have a four cavity Hensley & Gibbs mould # 50 / 51 that I have had for years. While it does cast some great SWC / WC .358 boolets my arm gets really tired at the end of the day from using it. I guess I better hang on to it now that it has become an investment that only appreciates over time.
Now for a great mold you can't beat the Cramer # 5C double cavity mold that I have. I don't think you can cast a bad boolet with it even if you deliberately tried too. My 45Acp and 45 LC do really great with that Cramer Mold. :drinks:

[MikeS]

Nothing comes close to an H&G mould. I have several four, six, eight and one ten cavity. Pre heat them and start casting. You have to work hard to cast a bad boolit with an H&G mould. I wish I had bought more of them.

If you can buy one for a decent price, jump on it! I'm presently trying to talk a buddy out of a like new, six cavity for the H&G #68 200 grain SWCBB. I think we're down to what it will cost me.

I have two eight cavity and one four cavity H&G 68 moulds made with the same cherry. But, I cast a couple million boolits out of them when I had my boolit business and they are getting a bit worn. They still make good boolits, but I want some back up. Other wise, I will have to buy a couple of the Lyman #68 clones.

Well, if you're sure they're worn out, send one to me, I'll give you a second opinion! :)

[shotstring]

I think it is just of late that things have consistently taken a turn towards crazy as far as the price of H & G molds. During the last year or so, I think I got a half dozen or so H & G 4 cavity molds with most of them falling in the $110 to $120 range, which I considered to be reasonable with handles. One or two were even less. The most I paid was around $155 for a mold in 45 long colt that I really wanted. Of course they weren't NIB, but were all in good shape.

Now, especially for forty caliber molds - sky seems to be the limit. And they are not always even in good shape. But all calibers with the exception of the plentiful #50 BB are really pricey. Just have to watch for picking one off of the edges at times when some of the big gang molds are getting everyone's attention.

[sagamore-one]

Just gotta say thanks again to Jack for the H&G 44 wadcutter mould. The purchase price has been long forgotten. It was worth every cent of whatever the price was.

[casterofboolits]

Well, if you're sure they're worn out, send one to me, I'll give you a second opinion! :)

MikeS,

Thanks for the offer to check my H&G moulds out. :bigsmyl2: However, they still make good boolits and feed my half dozen 1911's.

You can drop by for a visit and try them out, you can even take all the boolits you make home with you. I'll supply the alloy and coffee. [smilie=s:

[686]

What MtGun44 said was my experance too. I bought 2 molds , had the bow and a little off set cavities. He took them back and sent me 2 new ones that cast as good as any mold made. I think he went through a learning time. He has it right now. NOE is got a GB going now on the #34 rn version on the 68 swc one. It should be a winner also.

[Jack Stanley]

I just sent the last of my wadcutters from the H&G 107b mold downrange . Launched them signle shot style from my old Marlin 336 carbine , only misses were my fault .

Sagamore-one , may you use the mold in good health for many years to come :grin:

Looking back on H&G stuff I now kinda wish I would have got a number thirty-four plain base and I think it's the number forty-nine . Not like I really "need" either but hey , that's never stopped any of us right ??

Jack

[BulletFactory]

A thousand dollar mold wont solve my leading problems.

[MtGun44]

It might, how you gonna know if you don't try. :bigsmyl2:

Bill

[FISH4BUGS]

You would be amazed at what some people pay for NIB Hensley & Gibbs moulds.

I've watched my hand reach into my pocket and plunk down a truly stupid amount of money for a NIB Hensley & Gibbs mould because....because....because....

...when I figure out how to finish that sentence I will come back and post it here.

I am embarrassed to admit how much I paid for this one:


I've sold less than 5 in the 20 years I've been collecting and I still want all 5 back.

Are you listening Donald?

I want it back man. I don't know what I was thinking when I sold you that pristine 6 cavity #331.

:-)

Tom in VA
Tom:
You didn't sell it......we traded for it. :-)
Remember the 9mm 10 cavity mould (the co-star in one of your videos) was in good shape, and you wanted one. I wanted another 9mm mould to use. We swapped straight up as I recall. Good deal for both.
But if I ever get rid of it, it is yours.
Donald

[FISH4BUGS]

Hi All.

I know that H&G moulds are worth more than others, but WOW, I just saw on eBay, a 4 cavity #45 go for $292! and a 4 cavity #118 (which I was kind of wanting back at it's opening bid of $80.00) go for $280! I could MAYBE see that kind of money if they were a 6 cavity or 10 cavity H&G mould, but that kind of money for a 4 cavity? I bet the seller gets quite a surprise at what gramps old moulds bring!

I think it is the quality. If you have ever seen or used a new H&G mould, the workmanship is astounding. I have just sold two new (one flat new in the box and the other showed no evidence of ever being used - thanks Sniper Doc!) H&G moulds and just handling them, they reek of quality. The quality of that machine work is simply not being done today. Also, some bullets are more desirable than others. Some moulds are more rare than others.
The bullets will drop out with a minor tap, if even that is needed. Output is great with the larger (4 cavity and up) moulds. There is the appreciation for the quality and workmanship that is long gone in today's market. The steel used is better in the "old days" and they hold their value. It is also the history of the company.
Like TexasFlyBoy, I have put down stupid money for a H&G mould that I wanted. You forget about the money after a while. You enjoy the output and the quality and the joy of casting with them. There may even be something cosmic about H&G moulds, with the spirit of the machinists that created them.
I think it is basically knowing difference between the value of something as opposed to the price.

[lawboy]

I have a good no. of them and have had others. all are stupid good. STUPID good. Nothing else compares and I sorely regret selling the ones I did sell, even those in calibers I am pretty damn sure I will never own a gun in. I should have kept them just because. The 4-cavity #503 I sold still haunts me and I DO own guns in 45 Colt!

[MikeS]

I don't know about the steel being used in the old days being any better. In fact we have available today materials that the old timers could only dream about having. Having said that, I do believe that H&G might have used the best materials they could get, and in today's disposable mentality the current products are probably not being made with the best materials they could be, at least not production products. As an example, the brass that Miha (sp?) uses in his moulds just wasn't available 60 years ago! I think most people today are not willing to pay for quality anymore (most folks active here excluded), and given the option of paying $10 for something that will last a year, or $100.00 for something that will last 10 years, most folks will opt for the $10.00 item.

And it's not only money, it's everything, look at advertising from the turn of the 19th century, a whole page ad might have one or two pictures of the item being advertised, and a whole page of text describing what it does, and how to use it, etc. Todays advertising will have a huge picture, and maybe 3 or 4 words, probably a catch phrase or 2.

Another thought on H&G moulds was their target audience. Those 8 & 10 cavity moulds were not designed to be used by the amateur handloader, but rather by somebody, probably a less skilled person, to make LOTS of boolits for their police department to practice with. The mould HAD to be of such a good quality that the boolits practically cast themselves, as the concern was more with getting lots of ammo made for them to practice with, and less with making perfect ammo. If you gave that same person a Lee 6 banger, with all the tricks we use to make them cast good boolits, they would never get as many boolits cast as with a 6 banger H&G. They didn't have available to them the same amount of relatively cheaply available practice ammo, so the only way to get it was to make it themselves. This is my take on it at least. I'm not saying that many H&G moulds weren't used by loving handloaders, target shooters, etc. just that I don't think that was really the target audience originally for those moulds.

It also looks like I'll never own an H&G mould. I live on disability, and by the time I finish paying my bills, and all the silly stuff I buy (like moulds) I'm broke most of the month, so paying $300.00 for a mould is way out of my range! Now if anyone wants to take pity, and has a spare H&G #68 or #130 mould they wanna donate to a good cause, my address is... I really wanted to get that #118 that was on eBay last week (or was it 2 weeks ago) but it went for some outrageous amount!

[Piedmont]

Those iron moulds are also more durable than other materials. So an H&G mould can take heavy use for decades.

[Jack Stanley]

Mike , I think you might be on to something , my choice several times has been a ten dollar mold that lasts a year or , a two hundred dollar mold that lasts for several generations . My choice has been simple since I try not to be part of the disposable society , I'll get a mold my nephew can use long after I'm gone . In the mean time the big H&G molds almost cast by themselves[smilie=p:


Oh .... and as a matter of fact I do have a spare number one thirty . I'll like to trade it even up for a number thirty-four plain base in like condition .

Jack

[dakotashooter2]

It's not just H&G even the common used molds are selling on ebay for just a few dollrs shy of what a new one would cost. I've questioned if it's worth saving $5-$10 buck to buy a used mold that might have problems instead of just buying new.

[Echo]

I have a couple of H molds - not H&G, but George Hensley, San Diego, etc. Did I REALLY need two 2-banger #50's, when I already have a 4-banger#50? Well, no, but, come on... Gibbs joined Hensley in 1937. One goes to my son as soon as he gets started casting, the other when I stop casting...

And I have a 6-banger #39 that was rode hard and put up wet by an old rummy. I bought it, and a SAECO furnace, and a box of solder snippets from him when he was closing his shop. Paid $35. And the box of solder snippets had 6-8 SR primers mixed in. The mold turns out OK plinkers as long as I don't feed it too good alloy, otherwise fin city.

[shotstring]

The problem I have with H & G molds is when a nice clean Saeco mold with handles is offered for half of what a similar H & G mold is going for. Sometimes a third of the H & G price. In most cases, the H & G mold has at least twice the wear on it as well.

I love my H & G molds, but I don't know how much longer they will truly last than a nice Saeco mold.

I'll still buy H & G anytime the price hovers around reasonable, but otherwise I usually opt for the less expensive alternative.

[Jack Stanley]

It wasn't to long ago I saw a nice four cavity H&G wadcutter mold sell for just over seventy bucks . I already got a decent six cavity and I didn't wanna be a pig in case one 'o them po' folk wanted to buy one :smile:

Jack

[sliphammer]

Even used H&G molds are still quality items. One has to be really abused before its ready for the scrap pile. I look for these molds at all the shows and sites and the 501 seems to be hard to find. I've thought about putting a 10 cav., #264-357, casts a bullet around 125 gr., on the block but with the bullet diameter it casts they can be used in either 9mm or 38 cal. rounds. Sort of a double duty mold. I've always been happy with their molds.

[mstarling]

I started casting when H&G was still making molds and bought a couple of them when I could afford them. They are wonderful pieces of production equipment.

When I got back into it when I had more money, H&G was out of business but their mold designs were being produced by Ballisti-Cast. The ones I have bought are very nearly as good as the H&Gs.

Unfortunately, looks like they are now going out of the business because they are looking their shop facility. Damn sad day for me!

[Texasflyboy]

Hensley & Gibbs Price List Circa 1990 (http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/HGpricelist.jpg)

For a 4 cavity mould in 1990, it would have set you back $135.00, be it a 4 cavity #50 or a 4 cavity #503.

I've rarely seen a 4 cavity #50 go for more than $100 on eBay. I've seen 4 cavity 503's go for as much as $500 on eBay.

It would appear to me that the biggest factor driving up the resale value is the value some folks attribute to certain designs (Keith's mainly) followed closely by the inherent quality of the moulds themselves.

Based on my research, 4 and 6 cavity #50's actually went down in value from 1994. Bottoming out in the late 1990's. Their value is slowly coming up. 8 and 10 cavity moulds are all over the place, regardless of the design.

Again, based on my research, the most valuable ones will probably end up being 4 cavity moulds in the favored designs. These keep showing higher and higher resale value over time year over year.

[Shooter6br]

Ditto I have a H & g 4 cav #50

[rintinglen]

They are good molds--my 4 cavity #50 drops round boolits, cast after cast, that weigh within .7 grains of each other. However, I have a 4 cavity lyman 358-311 that cost half as much and does just as well, and my Mihec 359-640 is amazing. I will state flat out that I'd rather have a Mihec for 120 bucks than an H&G for 150, or for that matter, even up. The problem I had back in the day was that H&G Molds were crazy expensive. Back in the 70's, IIRC a 2 cavity H&G was more than a 4 cavity Lyman. My 45 got fed lyman 452-460's, not H&G number 68's as a result, something unlikely to change now.

[Piedmont]

They were always expensive. I never bought a new one, but chanced into an H&G 68 4 cavity with handles at a gun show around 1990 for $100. That was a lot of money then but cheaper than a new one, I think. What it did was hook me on H&G moulds. They are worth the money.

The deals on H&Gs are the #50s. That and the 68 were maybe the two most popular but whereas people kept shooting .45 autos, revolvers have become a dieing breed. Who wants a .38 revolver other than me and a bunch of you on this board?

[MikeS]

Oh .... and as a matter of fact I do have a spare number one thirty . I'll like to trade it even up for a number thirty-four plain base in like condition .


I don't know if you check eBay much, but right now there's a #34 (but made by Ballisti-Cast, not H&G) 4 cavity mould up for auction. I don't know anything about Ballisti-Cast, if their moulds are even close to the quality of H&G or not, but I think the one that's up right now is going for a stupid amount of money!

[Texasflyboy]

I don't know anything about Ballisti-Cast, if their moulds are even close to the quality of H&G or not, but I think the one that's up right now is going for a stupid amount of money!

It's only at $172.00 with 2+ days left.

Looking at my records I will estimate it will close at $250.00 or higher.

The last four cavity Hensley & Gibbs #34 that I have in my eBay database sold for $380.00.

[Piedmont]

I find that ad misleading. Why is it in the H&G section? He is advertising it as an H&G 34 but then if you read farther down you see it is really a Ballisticast. It ought to be in the regular mould section and called a Ballisticast #634. But it probably wouldn't sell for as much then.

[Texasflyboy]

If tools make the product then all you need to recreate an artistic masterpiece is a paintbrush, paint, and a canvas.

The point, as always, is that the skill is in the wielder of the tool and not the tool itself.

I've always been clear when I said Wayne Gibbs sold the tooling from his shop to Ballisticast, but the skill (and the legendary precision) was in Wayne Gibbs and not his tools.

You're correct about the mould being misidentified, but many folks don't understand, or want to take the trouble to be as precise in their descriptions as they should, which is why we have places like this to try and educate folks.

There are a significant number of folks who think Ballisticast moulds = Hensley & Gibbs. They do not. Ballisticast moulds replicate Hensley & Gibb's designs, but they are made by a different company, in this case, Ballisticast. Ballisticast moulds have their own reputation separate from that of Hensley & Gibbs.

[MikeS]

So how is Ballisticast's quality? I know it's probably not as good as H&G's, but is it close? Or are their moulds junk? I just got a SAECO #69 two cavity mould which is close to a H&G #68 plain base, and it casts great! Yesterday I cast using a hotplate to warm the moulds for the first time, and cast both the SAECO #69 as well as a four cavity 452460. The #69 cast great, this was the first time I ever cast boolits where the first drop was perfect! From the #69 mould I didn't have any rejects! The cavities of the #69 are not as smooth as they could be, so none of the boolits came out nice and shiny, but they were filled out well, and dropped from the mould easily enough, just a light tap on the hinge with a mallet, and they dropped right out.

[Jack Stanley]

Since my accumulation of H&G molds isn't complete I'd like to try the Ballisti-cast products however ..... I agree that the knowledge and precision of an H&G mold still rests with Mr. Gibbs . While I don't mind spending the money on a mold that will last for generations , truth is I don't know much about ballisticast . Before I spend the money I want to know the product works as well as the legend if ya know what I mean .

What I do know is I called them up last year wanting to see if they had any of the old rifle caliber cherries or would be inclined to replicate the Lyman design 311291 . I think the man I was speaking with was Peter and wasn't familiar with that design . I sorta figured they really didn't have a casters interest at heart from that point on .

Jack

[Texasflyboy]

So how is Ballisticast's quality? I know it's probably not as good as H&G's, but is it close?

An older thread discussing this very topic (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=17841&highlight=H%26G)


A pic of a good Ballisticast mould courtesy of member GLL:

http://www.fototime.com/1E185946BE4F652/orig.jpg

A pic of a not so good Ballisticast mould courtesy of member GLL:

http://www.fototime.com/BEC541F43F47386/standard.jpg

Link to Thread with above photos (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=106128&highlight=quality&page=2)



And for the record, in 20+ years of collecting Hensley and Gibbs moulds, I have never come across a factory new Hensley & Gibbs, or a George A. Hensley mould that exhibited this type of poor quality control. 100% of the factory new Hensley & Gibbs moulds I have handled over the years have been 100% correct. I would estimate that I've seen or handled in excess of 500 NIB Hensley & Gibbs moulds.

In one of my interviews with Wayne Gibbs he told that they tested each mould before shipment, including a very close inspection of the mould cavities. When I asked him if they every sold "factory seconds" he laughed and said that if a mould didn't pass inspection, it went into the scrap bin. Period. Wayne stressed time and time again during my interviews that a quality product was a source of pride for him, his dad, and George Gibbs.

[RobS]

$380 for a 4 cavity mold.........................H&G or not...............................WOW!!! is definitely appropriate.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

MikeS,

That Ballisticast #634 mold/w handles was for sale in the Swappin' and Sellin' area right here at Castboolits. Knowbody wanted it at 160.00 shipped so he closed the sale and tossed it on eBay.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=113633&highlight=%23634

I didn't see it till it was already pulled.. dang it.

[FISH4BUGS]

Boy oh boy.....what a price!
These are getting more and more expensive! Very nice bullet design. For a 44 shooter this is the PERFECT mould.

[686]

my mold sold on ebay. i did not mislead it. the name ballista-cast was in the title and in bold red type in the body. i just wanted it to be found easer if you were looking for a h&g bulledt designe on a ballista-cast mold.
yes i wanted to give the nice shooters on this sight first shot. i realy wanted $200.00 shipped and even went down to 160. i new i may get more on ebay but had rather sale it here. i did get 202.50 with the shipping .
i was not trying to mislead any one . i also do not think the mold makers doing GB on here are not misleading any one eather when they put ( H & G Mold # --- ) . i did like the 2007 post about bsllica-cast molds.
now i will be waiting for my 3 NOE # 34 H&G MOLDS in july or aug. good casting to all and remember if you know how much lead you have, you do not have enugh.