KIK and the Chrony

[Don McDowell]

Had a couple of minutes and some paper patch and greasers loaded over KIK powder.
The patched bullets .444 from the Old West mould, cast from 20-1,508 grs. patched in paper mill 9# cotton onionskin.
72 grs of KIK 2f compressed, .4 from the case mouth ,.060 1/6 lubed felt and .030 fiber wad with the bullet seated just short of ,2 into the case.
Velocity averaging 1208,
Same components with 72 grs 2f express averaging 1210.
Fowling with the KIK is a slate grey compared to the shiny black of the express.
Don't know what the velocity comparison with the greasers was as the next to last patched load heaved the wad column thru the chrony's lcd. :roll: :?
Accuracy was good at 200 off the xsticks with 3 shot strings into clover leafs

[John Boy]

:brokenima:drinks:
Don, What was the humidity?
Weather report at Ft Laramie says 12% ... that's dry as a bone. Good indication the foul was not hygroscopic

[Don McDowell]

John it's drier than a popcorn fa....,er ah cheap plastic weather machine says 16% ,72 degrees

[Don McDowell]

Naw I think it was KILD the chrony. lol

[cajun shooter]

Don, I have yet to put any rounds down range with my CED 11 because of my ongoing health problems. I just wanted to say that the fouling you found was the same I had with a can of 2F KIK. I also had the same when I shot 44-40 rounds with powders which included Goex 2F, Goex Express 3F, Diamonback 2F and 3F and Swiss 2F. The Kik, Swiss and Diamondback all gave a light grey fouling with the Goex giving a very dark black color. The humidity was no where close to what you have. The Kik that I used was from the old runs. I have heard that it is again up for sale. Is the powder you tested from a recent purchase of a new run?

[Don McDowell]

Dave yes, UPS just delivered this lot of powder from Powder Inc, Monday.
The cans are now plastic, but they still have the same label design as the older stuff. Apparently there is alot of it in country,in enough quantity right now to last a long time, and more can be had if needed.
At 300$ less per case than Swiss, it's a good find for those of us that Hogdons left swinging in the breeze...

[cajun shooter]

I have plenty of the different powders but will try to make a order as I liked the KIK powder that I had. I always thought that the label was one of the nicest ones out. I am very sad at the purchase of Goex by Hodgdon Powder. They appear to be on track to mess up Goex so bad that it goes belly up and they have a huge tax write off. To quit the making of the sporting powders show that they don't care about the shooters. I guess they want every one to use all the fake stuff they sell, that will not happen!! Thanks for the information and the well wishing on my health. Later David

[littlejack]

Don:
Good to hear of your success with the KIK powder.
It is hard to believe that one of the best powder manufacturers is going to deliberately mess
things up for a monatary gain. I hope this is not true.
I switched from Goex ctg. to Goex 2f because the ctg. was, and probably is now
discontinued.
I do like the Goex powder, even though it is the only brand I have used, being a newby to
the bp fraternity.
I will have to check with my local bp shop, (The Gun Works) and find out if they can tell me anything. I believbe that the Goex is the only brand that they carry.
Thanks for the information fellas.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Jack no if and ner buts about it, Hogdons/goex discountinued Cartridge for ever, and suspended Express until maybe Jan of 12 when they may come back with a "reformulated" version.
Well that's all well and good, except for the numbers of shooters who had been patiently waiting for the promised new batch of Express since last fall , to only be led to the very start of the shooting season and be told that their powder is no more, until maybe next year.....

[littlejack]

That IS a "low blow" Don. Hope all goes well in this seasons competition with your wife and self.
Looks like I better start stocking up on 2f. It won't take too much, as I don't shoot near as much as you fellas and ladies in all those matches. I would like to get a supply to last until Gabrial blows his horn though.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

I got a case of the 2f express last fall. So if this KIK works out in my rifle like it looks as tho it will, we'll be in pretty good shape, she can shoot the express in her rifle for match loads, and I'll shoot the KIK.
We can shoot KIK and the case of Cartridge we have on hand for practicing, until I can find the load that her rilfe will shoot as well as it does the Express.
Schuetzen 2f has shown some promise ..

[littlejack]

Hey Don, slide up to the "Single Shot Guns" site.
Let us know how the Leatherwood Malcom scope is doing for you, and your overall opinion after having it for a while.
Jack

[Boz330]

I'm looking forward to your results on the Kik. I still have a case and half of Swiss but it has gone up $200 a case since I last bought. It would be nice to get something that will work for a reasonable price.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

Bob this KIK appears to be working pretty fair. It's 300$ a case less than Swiss is right now and there's rumbling that Swiss is going up shortly. For that sort of savings a person can afford to poke around looking for a good load. Velocity was neck and neck with Express grain for grain.
benz yes Grafs just puts their label on Schuetzen cans. I've used quite a bit of the 2f Grafs, and found it and Goex 3f to be alot alike.

[saz]

I saw on Powder inc that KIK makes a 1.5f. I know a lot of people swear by 1.5f Swiss, any comparison to it or say Goex Cartridge?

[John Boy]

I saw on Powder inc that KIK makes a 1.5f. I know a lot of people swear by 1.5f Swiss, any comparison to it or say Goex Cartridge?


Swiss 1.5 (250.205)
12 mesh – 0.27% retained
14 mesh – 5.24% retained
20 mesh - 92.59% retained
30 mesh - 0.10% retained
Through - 0.72%

KIK 1.5Fg (Lot 3910)
12- Mesh - Trace
14 Mesh - Trace
20 Mesh – 95.87% retained
30 mesh – 4.13% retained
40 mesh – Trace

Goex Cartridge – (05-37) 02OC07B
12 mesh – 0.62% retained
14 mesh – 0.03% retained
20 mesh – 97.54% retained
30 mesh – 01.70% retained
Through – 0.11%

Weight Vendor Grain
104.4gr Swiss 1.5
105.0gr KIK 1.5Fg 2010
90.2gr Goex Cartridge
100 cc volume pan weighed

[Don McDowell]

Using my old Ideal shotgun dipper measure a scoop full of KIK 1.5 weighs the same as a scoop of Cartridge. I intended to fire some rounds for velocity comparison, but until I decide what to do about the Chrony that'll have to wait.

[saz]

Interesting. The KIK and Cartridge look to be about the same size granulation but the cartridge is heavier by volume of all three if I am reading that right.

The local shop up here only deals with GOEX, but I may have to ask if they can get any KIK. Powder Inc has EXCELLENT prices, if you live in the lower 48....... Bummer for me. Oh well. I have a couple pounds of cartridge to play around with in the mean time.

Don, you said the wad went through the display right? Is it a chrony? If so can you hook up the remote screen and use it that way? I think you can buy one for like $20 if I remember right- thought I saw that on Buffalo arms. Anyways, GOOD LUCK! Lookin forward to the test results!

[Don McDowell]

Saz Chrony's web says to send the whole thing and 30$ in and they'll repair, but I"m thinking by the time I pay the shipping, it may be better just to get a new one from Midway or such for 75?

[saz]

Heck for $75 I would get the new chrony.......

[John Boy]

but the cartridge is heavier by volume of all three if I am reading that right. saz, I screwed up with my typing fingers. Made the corrections ... CTG is the lightest of the 3 powders

[montana_charlie]

Saz Chrony's web says to send the whole thing and 30$ in and they'll repair, but I"m thinking by the time I pay the shipping, it may be better just to get a new one from Midway or such for 75?
Shipping can't cost more than about $11 ( flat rate box), and I bet what you get back (for $41) will be little different from brand new.

At $75 from Midway, you'd stil have to add shipping to that.

CM

[saz]

IMHO, I have a basic F-1 cause it was dirt cheap at the time and I dont mind writing down the MV after every shot. But if I ever have to buy another one, I would get an F-1 (I dont need or trust the internal memory) with the remote display so I can turn the chrono on and off from the bench.

So has anyone used any KIK 1.5 or 2f a whole lot? I dont know why I am so interested, it's not like I can get it up here anyways..... Just curious I guess......

[cajun shooter]

Hey Jimmy, On the Crono's, when you are ready to buy don't pass up looking at the CED 11 before you buy. They are about $200 direct and are being used by a lot of the shooting sports. I have had mine for about 18 months and have no bad things to say. You will however end up spending more as you buy the extras.

[montana_charlie]

IMHO, I have a basic F-1 cause it was dirt cheap at the time and I dont mind writing down the MV after every shot.
You don't need to do that.

On the left side of the faceplate is a minature phono jack.
Go to Radio Shack and buy a miniature phono plug, some two-strand wire. and a switch.

I used enough wire to bring the switch to my shooting bench, but I can't read the numbers from that distance. So a couple of feet of wire would have worked for me. Maybe your eyes are 'longer'.

Anyway, connect the wire between the plug and the switch, and you can cycle through all of the infornation compiled for a ten-shot string.
You can cycle through the list of velocities for each of the ten shots, then it starts giving 'calculated' numbers.
It gives you Low, High, and Average of all shots ... as well as Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation.

Because it's (only) the F-1, it will only hold a single string. But it does a lot that you haven been utilizing.


The switch I bought at Radio Shack is a cylindrical case with a button on top. It bears a strong resemblance to what suicide bombers use on TV. When I decided to buy it, the store clerk asked if I would tell him 'why' I was buying it.

At first I felt like saying it's none of his business, but I changed my mind.
After all, if he's able to sell something that a 'terrorist' might use, I appreciate it when he shows that he cares 'who' he is selling to.

CM

[Don McDowell]

I shot the entire match at Alliance this weekend with KIK 2f and while my score is surely nothing to brag about, I am very happy with the fowling from the KIK.
I also tried an experimental load in my CIJ rifle, that consisted of 80 grs 1.5 f kik a .060 fiber wad, compressed enough in the 2.3 inch cases to seat a patched bullet to a depth of .2. The patch was treated as perinstructions from the 1875 Remington catalog (only substituting jojoba oil for spermicetti). While not exactly scientific I was able to keep that 6ft sqaure 1000 yd target jumping and diving with nothing more than my ladder sights. Had I of had the silver blade in place of the penny front sight, may have been able to wrangle a few more hits. But in the end I was able to shoot 11 rounds (that's all I had made up) with no wiping or blowtubing.

[littlejack]

Sounds like you had fun Don.
I would like to try the long range shooting one day. I don't really want to get into competition, but just some fun shooting.
I went to the local BP shop (The Gun Works) today. Needed to get another can of powder.
I ask the owner if he had heard any scuttlebutt about Hogdon maybe doing away with Goex, or any other hear-say. He said he hadn't, but one never knows. I suppose that if a company wanted to do something, it would be kept very,very quiet. Good Day.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Jack we always have a good time at the various shoots we go to.
It's a shame more folks don't go, as it is really a good learning experience, not only from the standpoint of finding out what your own equipment is up for, but also what other folks are using/doing and getting good results from.
Hogdons says they'll have the regular grade powder around , the only gripe most of us have is they dropped the stuff we've been using for competition shooting, just before the competitive season started. Not many are going to hang around and wait to see what they may or may not come up with next "january" and try to work up competition loads right away. I'm afraid they have lost alot if not most of their high volume bpcr shooters.

[Lead pot]

Don.

How did the 1000 yd off hand shoot go?

[Don McDowell]

Kurt that shoot won't be until Harlans match in August.
Looks like you can come out for that one and then hang on for Jimbo's the next week.