anyone here ever build a double rifle from a SXS shotgun?

[hornsurgeon]

here is a post i put on nitroexpress.com. anyone here have any input?

to start with, a little background. i've been a reloader, bullet caster, and shooter for over 20 years. i've build many sporting and target rifles on remington and mauser actions. now i want to try a double in 22 hornet. this is just for fun as a plinking/rodent gun and will be shot with cast bullets. any advice you can give would be great. i am trying to keep the price down as this is my first attempt. i can make a real beauty later on.

i think i want to start with a 410 SXS. i probably would choose a baikal or stoeger as the price is less and this is a low pressure round. i plan on cutting the barrels ahead of the chamber to make a monoblock, then pulling the ribs to reuse. my next step would be barrels. i am considering using takeoff factory ruger 10/22 barrels, or would i be better off using remington 223 barrels? i like the idea of the 10/22 barrels as they are lighter weight. i do have a lathe, so i would machine the barrel stubs to fit the monoblock snugly. i figured i would jig the barrels up on a true flat surface to ensure i get the barrels paralell, and figure the side to side out using math. i plan on soldering the barrels into the monoblock, then solder the ribs, sights, etc.


does this sound like i'm heading in the right direction? am i missing any critical steps?

thanks!

[S.R.Custom]

Got into a discussion a couple of years ago with a gentleman here who did. Interesting reading. He yammers on about a hypothetical .45 Super, but stick with it until he gets to the part where he actually talks about the double rifle towards the bottom of the first page:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=46553

Long story short-- he used inserts.

[S.R.Custom]

And as a follow-up to that, about a year ago I ran across another guy who built one, and he used inserts too (double 38-55 built on a 20 gauge). The advantage to using inserts is you avoid all the work with indexing barrels, attaching ribs, etc.

[looseprojectile]

for a Winchester model 24 in 20 gauge like forever.
The best I could do is the SBS Ithica 28 gauge and I can't bring myself to alter such a fine little gun. 30 inch barrels and five pounds.
Shotguns are not my favorite and are slow movers and I really like the idea of a double rifle. I am just going to be satisfied with speed loading my single shot guns.
I feel where you are coming from and double rifles have always been very interesting but I think they have priced themselves out of my reality.
Just a couple of barrel inserts would cost as much as a used single shot rifle.
I do like to read of others adventures though.

Life is good

[Bret4207]

I'd use centerfire barrels.

[rbertalotto]

I just bought a Bakail "Coach Gun" that had 45-70 inserts that are available from EAA.

This thing is a hoot to shoot!

It's great fun playing Bwanna against charging paper plates!

http://images108.fotki.com/v613/photos/2/36012/9695081/DSC_26811-vi.jpg

http://images58.fotki.com/v612/photos/2/36012/9695081/DSC_2679-vi.jpg

http://images59.fotki.com/v111/photos/2/36012/9695081/DSC_2672-vi.jpg

Lots more pictures here in photo album
www.rvbprecision.com

Brownells sells an excellent book on how to convert a shotgun to a double rifle.

One of these days I'm going to do it. But so far I've bought two shotguns to convert and I just can't cut them up........:oops:

[elk hunter]

If you're going to build a rifle on a shotgun action get Ellis Browns book "Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions" and carefully read the section about selecting a suitable action.

Before Mr. Browns book came out I put a set of 30-40 Krag barrels on a Ithaca/SKB 20 gauge double using the original shotgun monoblock. When I test fired it and set the cases down on the heads I noticed the cases leaned to one side. The action was springing under pressure. Some day I'll make up a new set of shotgun barrels and put them on the action and give it to one of the grand kids.

Numerous people have successfully re-barreled shotgun actions to rifles, but to avoid having problems one should start with the proper information and use a suitable action.

[John Taylor]

I don't think you will have a problem with the 22 Hornet on a 410. I get calls quite a bit on doing larger calibers and have two in the shop now that I'm working on. Remember to do the numbers on bolt thrust before choosing a caliber. Most shotguns can be converted to black powder rounds but after doing the numbers I found out a 38-55 had to much bolt pressure for a 410 shotgun. I was planning on doing a little Crescent 410 for myself and it looks like it will be a 38-40 or 44-40 to stay within the pressure limits.
First off the barrels on a SXS are not strait to the action. The original barrels are not strait ether. . Cutting the old barrels off and using what is left for a mono block is a good idea but I would not solder them in but thread the barrels to the chambers. Now comes the fun part, the chambers are not parallel. The last one I did was a repair of an old Parker shotgun that was made into a 28 gauge. First the chambers were reamed strait and then a piloted tap was made for the job. The tap had very fine threads so they would not be deep. After everything was checked for fit the barrels were installed with Loctite.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/shotgunbarrelreplace2.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/shotgunbarrelreplace3.jpg

[RwBeV]

Years ago I built liners for a Crescent 410 double gun. I chambered them in 218 bee. The liners work great they are long enough so that I didn't have to cut the barrels down. We regulated the gun by twisting the liners until they shot close the the same point of aim at 50 yards. Once we got them close we marked them until I was able to build an extractor for it. I held the liners in with O rings close the muzzle. The little gun was a blast to shoot, I hated to see it go. One thing though if he load it above lite loads it would extrude the primers into the firing pin holes, he decided not to have it bushed. I do have more of those Parker Hale liners if your interested, they are are about 30 inch's long with a dia. of 1/2" they have a 1 in 14 twist and are .223 bore.

Bob

[hornsurgeon]

rwbev - pm coming

[hornsurgeon]

rbertalotto -

i just got done putting together one just like your except i installed the factory sights. i posted a couple of pics on your other thread.

[RwBeV]

Now you got me thinking about building another one. I have a Crescent Quail Hammerless and a new lathe that I can cut the liners in one shot. I think I will build another Bee, I like that little cartridge and I have lots of brass and a boat load of cast Boolits. I always wanted a double rifle, could be my Africa gun, now just need to find a Pith Helmet.

Bob

[rbertalotto]

BTW...When you regulate a double rifle the barrels do not both hit at the same point.
If the bores are 1.5" apart, the bullets should theoretically impact at any range, 1.5" apart. This is proper regulation and extremely hard to achieve. But it is done on fine DRs all the time.

The idea of the two barrels crossing at some known distance is not correct. And if they are both hitting the same point on a target at some known distance, they will have to cross and then at two or three times the known distance the shots will be very far apart.

[RwBeV]

Well like I said we just got close to the same point. If I remember right we where 2 or 3 inches apart. If you knew where the gun shot you would half to hold accordingly. Each individual barrel shot good it was just hard to get them to come close to each other. Its just a fun gun to play with. He built it to hunt rabbits, squirrel's and turkeys but Im not sure if he ever hunted anything with it, I do know he shot it quit a bit.

[bstarling]

This must be a pretty common conversion. Right now I am reworking an old H&R 1900 12 gauge into a muzzle loader using a Brutus barrel from Numrich. So far so good. I have done some testing on it and nothing our of order occurred. I am also sitting on an LC Smith 12 gauge receiver in pretty good shape, but the barrel is beyond help for anything more than a coach gun. I now am wondering about doing a monoblock stub up for a 45/70 of something. Anyone have an idea about the strength of the Smiths? Oh, this one is Nitro Proofed.

Bill[smilie=s:

[RwBeV]

I did see a 45-70 at the Denver Collectors show that VM Star made up on an LC Smith gun. He use the original barrels and soldered 45 cal liners in it. The fellow that owned the gun said it shot good but man was it heavy. Thats the gun that gave me idea to use barrel liners.

Bob

[John Taylor]

This must be a pretty common conversion. Right now I am reworking an old H&R 1900 12 gauge into a muzzle loader using a Brutus barrel from Numrich. So far so good. I have done some testing on it and nothing our of order occurred. I am also sitting on an LC Smith 12 gauge receiver in pretty good shape, but the barrel is beyond help for anything more than a coach gun. I now am wondering about doing a monoblock stub up for a 45/70 of something. Anyone have an idea about the strength of the Smiths? Oh, this one is Nitro Proofed.

Bill[smilie=s:

Modern 12 gauge 2&3/4 would have a bolt thrust of 5,923 pounds. Factory loaded 45-70 is 5,627 pounds of thrust. The 45-70 will work fine on your L C Smith. By using the mono block and turning barrels you can shave some of the weight down. Liners in a 12 gauge will get you about 11-12 pounds.

[thehouseproduct]

Would a 38 special work? I'd love to have an extra barrel set for my couch gun to play with.

[bstarling]

Thanks for the in put guys. I think when I get done with the current two on the bench projects, I may well see about working on the Smith. That is unless the idea of a 458 American on a Mosin gets in the way! :confused:

Bill

[StrawHat]

I have an old Belgian shotgun that VM Starr converted to 45-70 by sleeving the barrels. Yes, it is heavy, I have not scaled it but maybe I should. It seems when it was built in the 70s it was a lot lighter. VM built it around the 330 grain JHP from Hornandy and regulated it so both barrels hit point of aim at 70 yards or so. He sent me the final target and I have been able to duplicate his shoting. Because of the barrel regulation, it does shoot apart when targeted at closer or further ranges but not enough that it would cause a miss at my normal 45-70 hunting ranges. I am running low on the Hornandy bullet and will try to work up a load for the Gould boolit but that will have to wait for another day.

[bigdog454]

I have been thinking about building a .50 ML using a 12 ga O/U donor gun. I don't know if I should line the barrels or cut them off and build on the block. What do you think? either way it could be heavy,
BD

[S.R.Custom]

I don't know that one way is inherently better than the other. But sometimes the design of the gun itself will dictate which way to go. And, if the barrels are trashed or cut off, that pretty much commits you to mono-block.

One thing is for sure, though-- Mono-block is a greater test of your skill with a lathe.

But there is one argument for liners I've not seen mentioned here yet-- they don't necessarily have to be heavy. You can turn down the diameter of the liners except for strategic places along their length that place the liner within the parent barrel. You can lose a lot of weight that way. And depending on the gauge of the donor and caliber of the liner, you may even be able to whittle some off the chamber area.

A crude illustration:

[MtGun44]

An acquaintence did a .22LR DR on a .410 shotgun. It was very cute and shot well. He had
slightly eccentric bushings at the muzzle and used liners for the bbls. He regulated it by
rotating the eccentric bushings.

Bill

[justashooter]

just flagging in here. still working on 2 double gun conversions.

a german 16 gauge post '91 nitro proofed sidelock hammer with double underlug and greener crossbolt with 38-55 and 30-30 barrel sets, and a belgian 12 gauge pre '93 BP proofed back action sidelever with single underlug and 45-70 barrels.

both guns will final at about 24-25" barrels and be regulated by adjusting solder joints on ribs to regulate at 75-100 yards. ramp front sights and folding ladder type rear sights for extreme range. not expecting either to be a tack driver, but will settle for 24" plates at 600 yards.

will regulate the 16 with 1600-1700 ft pound loads and the 45 -70 with 1200-1300 foot pound loads. theoretically the 16 could handle significantly more due to it's design, but no more feasable without going gas checked or jacketed. all barrels modern steel.

remember that higher velocity loads tend to shoot to opposite side of gun when using SXS because they are in bore for shorter moment as gun twists under recoil due to off center impulse. lower velocity loads shoot toward the barrel they come from, so regulating can be done by adjusting bullet weight and velocity, as wlell as by adjusting barrel fitting.

FYI numrich has 300+ 375 win (38-55) barrels NOS for the 94 angle eject gun at about $50 each. only trouble is the dovetail cuts. similar deals in other calibers. upper and lower barrel ribs also on hand cheap.

[dvanncvann]

I am in the process of starting a double rifle build in 38-55 on a Stevens 12ga frame. I bought 2 .375 barrel blanks from Midway and will be threading them to the 12 ga monoblock as per The Building Double Rifles book. This book is a must read before attempting such a build. I just finished a Baikal in 45-70 with inserts from Tanfoglio.