Is this what they mean by corrosive ammo? USGI .30-06

[Dutchman]

I got this thing in 1968 and it looked just like this back then.

Remington Arms 1918 .30-06. Notice they had no primer crimp in 1918.

http://images52.fotki.com/v1563/photos/2/28344/3886627/3006a_tif4688066425693684493-vi.jpg

http://images52.fotki.com/v1563/photos/2/28344/3886627/3006_1918-vi.jpg

By 1928 they had a crimped primer.

http://images51.fotki.com/v731/photos/2/28344/3886627/c035-vi.jpg

Frankfort Arsenal 1936 has the more conventional primer crimp.
http://images115.fotki.com/v685/photos/2/28344/3886627/c037-vi.jpg

I have about 100 rds of the RA28 .30-06 in original brass stripper clips with the lock tabs intact. Never shot any of it but it's clean and shiny.
http://images115.fotki.com/v663/photos/2/28344/3886627/c034-vi.jpg

http://images116.fotki.com/v697/photos/2/28344/3886627/c036-vi.jpg

[NickSS]

I recently shot up a can of FA 34 ammo that was going bad. I had about 1/3 duds but I did not waist them as I pulled the bullets dumped the powder deprimed and reprimed with new primers loaded them up with 4064 and shot off the old pulled bullets in my M1. They all went off the second time. The shell you show is suffering from corrosion the the brass which is different than corrosive ammo which deals with the priming mix. I have seen ammo that has been improperly stored in damp areas that look like that that were a heck of a lot newer. If its not too deap you can remove it with steal wool and use the brass for a long time. I know that I have done that.

[Bret4207]

I recently shot up a can of FA 34 ammo that was going bad. I had about 1/3 duds but I did not waist them as I pulled the bullets dumped the powder deprimed and reprimed with new primers loaded them up with 4064 and shot off the old pulled bullets in my M1. They all went off the second time. The shell you show is suffering from corrosion the the brass which is different than corrosive ammo which deals with the priming mix. I have seen ammo that has been improperly stored in damp areas that look like that that were a heck of a lot newer. If its not too deap you can remove it with steal wool and use the brass for a long time. I know that I have done that.

Me too.

[thunderthud]

the primer is the culprit, clean w/ soap & water or sudsy ammonia & water if U can stand the smell. I shoot corrosive mostly in bolt guns cuz are easier to clean. gas guns must come apart and get in the nooks & crannys and flash suppressors if the rifle has one.l the rust can start in as little as a day if not looked after.

[gnoahhh]

That RA-28 round with the heavy ring crimp is an aircraft machine gun cartridge. Special lots with that crimp style were made up for many years, from various contractors, specifically for aircraft use. The load was the same as with other ball cartridges, just the crimp differed. The reason was that if a primer blew in a remotely mounted machine gun (as in a wing mount) and jammed the gun you were SOL until you landed and cleared the jam. Bad juju if you're in the middle of a dog fight with a Zero. I understand that ground troops would scrounge that ammo for their own use for the same reasons. I've reloaded those cases but dealing with that crimp style is a lot worse than dealing with the standard crimp. Those primers are in there to stay. Any of it that turns up in stripper clips is coincidental because like I said other than the crimp it's the same cartridge.

[Multigunner]

Crimped primers came about when un crimped primers caused stoppages in automatic weapons. Till man portable automatic weapons became commonplace on the battlefield adding the crimp to standard infantry Ball had not been seen as necessary.

The heavy and efficient bolts and linkages of Maxim type MGs don't seem to have been much affected by uncrimped primers.

Uncrimped primers offered a slight cushioning affect a reduction of around 900 pounds of bolt thrust. Crimping a primer eliminated this slight cushioning effect, and made it even more necessary to make sure no grease or oil remained in a chamber, and increased the chances of damage when rain wetted ammunition was fired.

PS
I ran across a congressional report on defective ammunition produced during WW1. Remington was high on the list due to hundreds of millions of rounds being produced with defective primers.

[nicholst55]

Crimped primers came about when un crimped primers caused stoppages in automatic weapons. Till man portable automatic weapons became commonplace on the battlefield adding the crimp to standard infantry Ball had not been seen as necessary.

The heavy and efficient bolts and linkages of Maxim type MGs don't seem to have been much affected by uncrimped primers.

Uncrimped primers offered a slight cushioning affect a reduction of around 900 pounds of bolt thrust. Crimping a primer eliminated this slight cushioning effect, and made it even more necessary to make sure no grease or oil remained in a chamber, and increased the chances of damage when rain wetted ammunition was fired.

PS
I ran across a congressional report on defective ammunition produced during WW1. Remington was high on the list due to hundreds of millions of rounds being produced with defective primers.

I understand all the above to be true; General Hatcher addresses much of this in his 'Notebook.' General MacArthur was plagued by malfunctioning ammo during his ill-fated defense of the Philippines during WWII - both WWI-vintage small arms and artillery ammo.

Since the reason for adopting the crimped primer was to insure reliability in automatic weapons, can anyone explain the reason for crimping primers in .38 (Special) M41 Ball ammo? I've yet to see an automatic weapon chambered for that cartridge. :-|

[John Traveler]

This only a wild guess, so take it or leave it for what it is worth.

One of the end users of the M41 .38 Special FMJ cartridge was the then new (1948) US Air Force with it's new fighter jets with ejection seats. It could be that the primer crimps were part of the MIL-SPEC to make the ammunition more resistant to the forces of ejection or surviving a plane crash.

The primary intended use of the aircrew .38 revolver was firing signal tracers. The secondary use was emergency personal defense.

[rtracy2001]

Since the reason for adopting the crimped primer was to insure reliability in automatic weapons, can anyone explain the reason for crimping primers in .38 (Special) M41 Ball ammo? I've yet to see an automatic weapon chambered for that cartridge. :-|

Another pure guess, but I would blame typical military efficiency and specifications. If crimped in primers are needed for one round, us it for all rounds then there is no chance of a crimp not being applied to your munitions for autos.

[Multigunner]

I understand all the above to be true; General Hatcher addresses much of this in his 'Notebook.' General MacArthur was plagued by malfunctioning ammo during his ill-fated defense of the Philippines during WWII - both WWI-vintage small arms and artillery ammo.

Since the reason for adopting the crimped primer was to insure reliability in automatic weapons, can anyone explain the reason for crimping primers in .38 (Special) M41 Ball ammo? I've yet to see an automatic weapon chambered for that cartridge. :-|

I've had a revolver become tied up by backed out primers when the loads were too light to push the casehead back against the breechface. The protuding primer acted to hold the case tightly forwards in the chamber and caused a lot of drag.
Ordinarily a revolver cartridge case springs back a bit after expansion so the case heads don't bind the cylinder. Once the cylinder turns enough to rotate the backed out primer past the raised breechface it frees it up okay, but sometimes I had to pull the double action trigger while thumb cocking the hammer to get enough leverage. This seems to only occur with a too light charge.

A blow primer would also be subject to tie up a cylinder.
Not the sort of problems you'd expect with fresh well stored ammo, but military ammo subjected to months of rough weather and possibly being dunked in the ocean after bailing out might have such problems.

[gnoahhh]

My guess is that yes, it's overkill, but the gov't isn't taking even the remotest chance of a primer backing out in anything and possibly putting the serviceman's life at risk. That plus they like to screw with hand loaders!