P W Metal-Matic P-200 Press

[seagiant]

Hi,
I'm selling my Dillon 550 and I've been looking at this press for the past few years. I want to slow down my reloading and hopefully enjoy it more with better control. If anyone has this press or any opinions on it please let me know! Pics would be welcome also. By the way I am looking for a good example to buy if anyone has one. Thanks!

[Ben]

This comment won't help at all, but ...........one of those was for sale here about 3 weeks ago.
Guy wanted $125 for it if my memory serves me right.

[Casting Timmy]

I think they still sell those new, I remember looking over the website a while back as maybe an easy way to increase my reloading. I believe one of their machines is meant for pistol calibers only, so I don;t know if that will affect you or not.

I would recommend keeping your 550, as it's easier to find parts for and has the guarantee. You might also look over some of the presses on ebay. If I didn't buy a CH444 a while back I would have jumped on the PW listed on here.

[Dan Cash]

You could simply mount one or two dies on your 550 tool head and thus slow down your operation. No other press will give you more control over your reloading.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well... I don't want to screw up my own thread by bringing all the Dillon Fan Boys out of the woodwork but I cut my progressive reloading teeth on about 3 Star machines at one time and Mr. Dillon never made a machine as well as that one!

If anyone knows the guy that had that PW 200 for sale Id be real interested! Thanks!

[Roundnoser]

I just sold a P-200 a few weeks ago on this forum. They come up quite frequently on Flea-Bay if you are interested. They are great presses...very well-built. For use with only straight wall pistol reloading. you could get away with small rifle cases like 223 if you sized and deprimed on a seperate press.

Prices vary depending on condition and extras. I have seen them sell for 125 - 200 dollars in used condition. I believe a new one goes for $250.

If you have specific questions about it, shoot me a PM.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Seagiant: you might have a look at the C&H 444 press. It is a 4 station press where you move the cartridge from station to station by physically taking the case and moving it to another shell holder positioned under another die.

The PW press you are talking about has an arm that has one shell holder and you move the arm from station to station under a stationary turret which holds the dies, and other tools..

It is nearly the same type of sequence. Same amount of work etc.

The big difference is the C&H is a stronger and better made machine.

My .02.

Randy

[legend]

MY 2cents....

I bought the first p-200 i saw in a gun rag,new,straight from the factory.

That was a lot of years ago.

I have loaded thousands of 30-06,270,7.5x55,300wsm,223,220 swift,and countless others on it along with all the pistol brass and have never;THATS NEVER,had any problems with it.

Should you use it only for pistol brass?well thats up to you,i am just telling you what i have done.

I own the dillon 550B,thats my volume loader and i love it,i also love the p-200.

They also make a press designed for large rifle brass,i have seen it and it IS a beefier machine,i just missed one a fella wanted a hundred for and i did not have the money(story of my life).

i would say its one of the better loading presses i have used,i made my money back many moons ago with it.

[seagiant]

Hi Jon,
Well I guess you were the guy that had the PW press for sale. Thanks for the info!

Hi Randy,
Did you buy that CH press with all the goodies? How does it prime the case. I would think it would be easier to be able to drop powder and prime all at the machine. If you could give me some more thoughts on this? Thanks!

[Roundnoser]

Seagiant: you might have a look at the C&H 444 press. It is a 4 station press where you move the cartridge from station to station by physically taking the case and moving it to another shell holder positioned under another die.

The PW press you are talking about has an arm that has one shell holder and you move the arm from station to station.

It is nearly the same type of sequence. Same amount of work etc.

The big difference is the C&H is a stronger and better made machine.

My .02.

Randy
W.R. is right about the strength of the CH. I spoke with Dave at CH some time ago, about my CH 333 (much like WR's pic, but it has only three stations). He said it could definately handle rifle casings, but recommended an adjustable powder measure instead of the push button variety on the Pistol Champ...obvioulsy with a larger powder charge, the push button might not be up to the challenge..they only make the bushings so big!
Randy, I noticed you don't have the primer feed set up on your 444. Do you place your primers one at a time, or just didn't have it hooked up?

Legend: That bigger, beefier version of the P-200 is called the Metallic II. Certainly is big enough to handle most rifle cases.

[Roundnoser]

Hi,
Well... I don't want to screw up my own thread by bringing all the Dillon Fan Boys out of the woodwork but I cut my progressive reloading teeth on about 3 Star machines at one time and Mr. Dillon never made a machine as well as that one!

If anyone knows the guy that had that PW 200 for sale Id be real interested! Thanks!

Seagiant -- Yer darn right the Star is an awesome progressive / Universal. I've always loved those things and was finally able to purchase one from a great guy on this forum not too long ago. I have my Star sitting next to a Dillon 1050. There is NO DOUBT where Mr. Dillon got his inspiration. That 1050 is just a Star on steriods!

[seagiant]

Hi Jon,
Sounds like you have some nice toys! After owning and maintaining 3 stars at one time I can't help but grin when I hear people say they are finicky about how they work. This is usually younger guys with no mechanical background(yes watching video games all day does not impart mechanical ability!)
On the other hand when I was growing up in the 60's kids were outside working on lawn mowers or there bikes ,mopeds,ect. I'm afraid we have lost something in this country and don't know if we can get it back? All of this to say that the Star was built by a Machinist and if you bought one in 1930 when you were a kid,you could pass it on to your grandson or grand daughter!
Sorry for the history lesson!

I would like to know how the primer feed works on the CH 333or 444 press. I see in the pics that the primer tube sits over to the left station and the left shellholder has a primer arm in it but how does the primer get from the tube to the priming arm? Thanks!

[W.R.Buchanan]

There is a primer feeder that goes in the left station. I have mone off as I do it with and RCBS primer tool.

Mine is actually called the Pistol Champ and it comes set up for one caliber and has the powder measure and all. It was $285 when I bought it several years ago.

The regular 444 is bare and cost only about $50-60 less. it's definately a better deal to get the whole shebang.

It will size and deprime rifle cartridges like .30-06's just fine, however it takes alot of effort to do it. So I break down fired brass IE; resize and deprime, on a Rockchucker and reassemble in this machine. You can do 200 an hour if you put your mind to it. I go a little slower, more like 100per hour.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

The PW will full length size rifle cases too but like the C&H it takes a lot of effort compared to a conventional press. Difference being the mechanical ratio in the lever mechinism.

This is where the 550 steps ahead of the other machines, it is basically a conventional press with the turret mechinism added, so it has the mechanical leverage to do the heavy work with less effort is already there.

All that said, It is not inconvienient to Resize and Deprime on a single stage press. ( or your 550) Most everybody has one anyway.

Where the multi station machines really shine is in the assembly of loaded rounds after you have deprimed, sized, and cleaned/tumbled? This way you are loading clean fresh cases everytime, and also you are getting multiple "looks" at each individual case to check for bad ones.

Makes sense, huh?

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

The C&H Primer feed works nearly like the Redding primer feed for their turret press. You have a tube with primers in it, there is a slide bar under the tube with a hole in it, you push in on the slide bar, and the primer is transfered to the primer seater. Very simple.

The C&H primer feed is a slide bar with a hole in the end that is spring loaded to be under the primer storage tube when at rest.

There is a small strut, either for large or small primers that screws into the left bearing boss on the base of the machine, directly below the left die station.

Pushing in on the knob takes a primer from under the storage tube and transfers it to the strut where it drops into the top of the strut. (primer seater)

Then you use a upward motion on lever to pull the platten down thus seating a primer in the case. Then you go up into the expander die which bells the case mouth , then you charge the case by dropping powder thru the expander die (powder measure) and then move it to the center station for bullet seating and then the right station for crimping.

One thing I didn't make clear in the above post is that I only size large Rifle cases on my Rockchucker. I use the center rear station on the C&H to size and deprime all my .44's, or other pistol rounds, as it doesn't take any effort to resize a strait walled pistol case.. It will do .223's easily also. I just stay away from the full size rifle cases where the case shoulder has to be set back. That is where the high effort comes in. Like I said the press will do it, I just don't want to put out that much effort when I have another machine to do the job easier right next to it. I figure you'd use your Dillon for loading quantities of rifle rounds anyway. Right?

The reason I don't use my primer feeder is because you have to load the tube exactly like you do for your Dillon, and I prefer using my RCBS hand primer tool as it is faster to load and I know every primer is correctly seated before the case is charged and loaded. It is kind of hard and dangerous to push a primer in deeper on a loaded round. Some may not even do it. I know I am extra careful when I do.

Hope this helps you understand the operation a little better. I would post pics but I am almost out of picture space on the site.

Is there a function or membership that allows for unlimited pic placement here at castboolits.com?

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
First thank you very much for the information! That is what I was looking for. You have given me some ideas to think about.The problem with semi-progressives is that if you are reloading auto pistol ammo you need an extra station for a taper crimp die. I have an old BrownBair 3 station H press. Not as stout as the CH and does not have 4 stations but a good press! I was interested in the PW metal matic because you can get all the dies and powder for 2 calibers on one head. However if I resize and prime on a single stage first then I would have enough space with the 3 station Bair!

[bobthenailer]

I have a P200 that i bought in the 70s and still use it for less loaded calibers that would not be worth it to convert the dillon 550 to.
I have the semi auto primer feed and a extra tool head. I also arrange the dies differently than the instruction manual states to make production easier
I currently use the dillon powder measure with there powder die & drop tube assy to charge cases , previously i used a bonaza pistol measure and later a rcbs lil dandy .

[seagiant]

Hi Bob,
Is that a pretty stout machine? It looks like it has aluminum on the bottom shelf there! Just wondering? Any pics? Thanks!

[Roundnoser]

Here are a couple pics of the P-200 I sold to a fellow forum member some time ago...

31856

31857

[seagiant]

Thanks Jon!!!

[bobthenailer]

Sorry no pictures . it is made to load pistol cartages only as its not stout enough to resize rifle cases ! however before i bought my first 450 dillon , i used it to reload 308 and 223 rifle ammo .but the cases were allready resized in my rock chucker press. and i just seated the primer,dropped the powder and seated the bullet in the P200.

[seagiant]

Thanks Bob,
I have the PW 375 single stage shotshell reloader that is cousin to the metal-matic but shotshell is different than pistol. Have never heard anyone say it was flimsy(the metal-matic) so was just wondering? Thanks again!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Seagiant: That Bair is still a stout press. IF you notice your center station is directly between the guide rods. It is the same way on the C&H 3-4 station presses except on the 4 station there is another station added in front of the center rear station.

This is done for the obvious reason that the strongest place on the press is between the guide rod, so that's where they want you doing the sizing operation.

If you decide to run your cases in the way I outlined you're all ready to go. That single stage press you have (is it a Hollywood?) looks like it would probably squash 50 BMG's down to 30-06 sized cartridges with little or no effort! If not you could definately break cement with it.

If you break down you cases on that one, then the Bair will do the rest. Looks to me like you're ready to go, but maybe for some minor tooling.

One of the fine points is the need to be able to put a powder measure of some type on top of the expander die. Obviously the expander plug needs a hole in it and there has to be some way to adapt the PM to the top of the die.

A simple and cheap way to do it is to use a Lee Thru Powder Expander Die . I am looking for one for rifle cartridges right now. In fact I just ordered a bunch of stuff from Midway yesterday and forgot to order the damn thing until now.

This way you can prime the case, off the machine, put the case in the left station, and expand it and then throw the charge, all in one handling. Then bullet seat, and then crimp,,,done!

I will probably take one of my C&H pistol expander dies and make an expander plug for the 30 cal (.30-06 &.308) and make an adapter to mount a RCBS powder measure on top. The other option is to make an adapter to hold a funnel on top of the die, and throw the charge and or weigh it off the machine, then dump it in the funnel. I have a Lee 45-70 expander die that has an aluminum adapter on top which my RCBS powder funnel fits into perfectly. I think they made it that way on purpose.

Hope this all helps you with some ideas for getting the most out of your equipment.

Nothing like finding out you already have something that you always wanted.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Seagiant: I just noticed you Bair Press is sitting on a Bridgeport mill. I assume there is a lathe nearby?

You should easily be able to make any adapters or extra doodads you need to,,,

the rest is mute.

If you need any help I'm here.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Like I said you gave me some ideas!!! My expander powder through die is a Lyman even though I would not recommend it! I had to take the expander plug and get rid of the stupid step in it and make it more gradual so it would be more adjustable. I like just the least amount of belling on the case mouth. I have enclosed a pic. I'm reloading 10mm. The RCBS powder measure is from the 70's,notice the rubber top!

I am still keeping my eye open for a used metal-matic. Oh yes, that single stage press is a Hollywood that I pickedup for $10 at a gunshow!!! Thanks!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Seagiant:

It looks to me like you are all set up to go with that setup.

If you are reloading auto pistol rounds then I would recommend a C&H expander die for a few bucks and then you can buy what ever pistol expander plug you want for like $5 ea.

I have several C&H die bodies that I have accumulated over the years,and have bought several other expander plugs from Dave Davidson at C&H. I have a .40S&W and a 10MM which was mistakenly sent to me instead of the .40S&W one. I also have a 38/357 , a 9mm and Makarov plug too. They all interchange into the die body which is nothing more than some 7/8-14 All-Thread with a hole bored partly thru it for the plug to fit into. The smaller thru hole for the powder drop is there also. The expander plug is held in place by a set screw from the outside. Then the top of the new die is turned to provide whatever spud for mounting your powder measure you want.

Anyone with a Lathe should be able to make this stuff, as it is nothing special.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
I'll look into that CH dies. I know that man is a Machinist and I've always admired their work. When I needed a shell holder adapter for my Hollywood press that is who I went to and when I got it it worked and fit perfect and was pretty with knurling to boot!!! I have a Clausing 1945 12X36 lathe and use it religiously, but it comes down to what you want to do with YOUR time!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Seagiant: as you might have concluded I am a Machinist, In fact I own a machine shop.
As I approach retirement I am setting myself up to have everything I need to construct anything I might need to play with in my old age. I will always have a mill and a lathe, and an air compressor, and a drill press, and a welder, and a (I could go on and on) etc.

This obviously includes all the reloading equipment I have wanted for my entire life. I'm almost there too.

As soon as I am done with my Jeep project I will go into complete gun mode and will shift my shops production to gun related things I can sell on the internet or various other places.

One of the cool things about guns is there is so many avenues for expression with them. They are definately an art form. I have gotten the metal part down pretty good in the last 30 years, and am now starting into the wood part. I do it for fun now, but as I progress maybe I will be able to integrate it into the business.

Dave Davidson is a great guy to deal with . He is actually one of "them that knows". Getting more and more scarce everyday.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
I'm a Merchant Marine Engineer and while at work means I'm a jack of all trades! One day I'm on the lathe making a part for a hydralic system and the next day I'm in the bilge up to my neck in s&#t!!! Never know whats next! With my small shop at home and my work I get alot of shop time and really enjoy it. I gunsmith for a hobby and really enjoy that! keep me up on your projects!

[W.R.Buchanan]

After my stint at SoCal Edison I wanted to be a marine engineer, however finding a way in is pretty challenging. In fact it never happened. Became a MIllwright, and then evolved into machine work, then started my own shop. Has worked out pretty well, as now I have nearly everything anyone could want to build stuff with including a place to do it.

Currently building Pushers for De-Bulging .40S&W cases. They will show up here later this week.

Then of course there is my never ending scratch built Cummins Powered Jeep Scrambler Project. Hope to get it up and running this summer. Been along time at this one, going on 6 years in the build phase.

Randy

[snommittj]

I just picked up a Metal Matic P 200 this morning in a trade along with a bunch of other reloading equipment. I didn't even know what it was, never seen one. It has been sitting in a reloading shop for about 20 years, so it is covered with dirt, but is cleaning up nicely. This is an interesting thread.

[r1kk1]

The P-200 is a heavily modified 375c shotshell press. I use a lot of Ponsness/Warren stuff.

Cool press. The 375c is the best single stage shotshell loader I've ever used. Going from 10 gauge to 410 gauge is less than five minutes plus going from 2-1/2" to 3-1/2" shell is very ez to do.

Take care,

r1kk1

[seagiant]

Hi snommittj,
Well,I started this thread so I guess I can chime in. Congrats on your loader,if I come across a 200 at a good price I would pick it up! In the end I decided to go with the Metal-Matic II and now have two of them with 1950's Hollywood powder measures! I'm very happy with this set up!

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Seagiant,

Are those presses as fun as they look? What kind of production do you get out of them? What do they feel like to operate?

[Leadmelter]

I have owned and used a PW-200 since the early 1980's. I still use it because I can load a mo.
derate amount of ammo without buying more Dillon items. I have a 550B that use for 45 ACP and 38 Specials.
I load some 45 LC, 44 Sp and others on the PW-200. It is a single stage, so if there is a problem I only need to check the case in front of me not the whole stage of dies and cases.
I even got a Lyman turret recently but still learning to use it. Why! I like to only adjust dies once.
Gerry

[seagiant]

Hi Dave,
To answer your question,YES! They are really nice to load on! This coming from a guy that has owned multiple STARS,Dillions,Hornadys,Lyman turrent presses,it goes on and on. These are not fast speedy machines! You put a case in the shellholder and it stays there till you go through all the operations. However it is very easy to check primers,powder charges,ect. I made a decision to actually slow down a bit to make better more consistant ammo and to enjoy my reloading more. These presses have done that for me.

[milprileb]

This was an education on machines not discussed much these days but are options for serious reloaders ! Thank you all.

It mentions something I have gravitated to: I do my FL sizing / depriming off on a Rock Chucker and then feed rifle cases to my Dillon press for final assembly or to my Co Ax.

I never much understood running rifle brass in a 550 Dillon all lubed up and chunking out a loaded rifle round and not knowing what the COAL is. Those that do this must be doing trimming before FL sizing and dealing with completed rounds dropping into the bin all greasy with lube. I prefer to feed a progressive press trimmed FL sized , clean brass and do assembly of ammo with everything clean.

Like many of you: the extra steps are not the end of the world. It costs as much to make half great ammo as it does to precisely assembly great ammo. Components cost the same.

Craftsmen and their tools: I took note of what you guys are doing. Thanks for sharing.

[r1kk1]

When doing rifle, I neck size a majority of the brass because most of my stuff is bolt, single action stuff. When station 1 punches the primer out, I pull the case, check with caliper to see if it may need to be trimmed, uniform the primer pocket and back in it goes to rotate station 2. Station 1 gets a case and so on. Nothing says that a fella needs to cycle from 1-4 without the ability to pull a case to check things or whatever.

The 550 allows me to do a lot of work in a smaller time frame.

I did not buy it to go fast, just faster than I was doing on a single stage. That's all. I load between 100-200 an hour depending on which rifle brass/load I am doing.

take care,

r1kk1