dcm/NRA high-power AR-15

[firebrick43]

I know this is not exactly a CB kind of question but I figured some of you might be able to help.

I want to compete in some way or another and have been looking at NRA high-power as the is a local range holding competitions regularly.

Little background on me. Spent 5 years in the Corps and typically qualified expert and from what I have read the competions are close to the USMC qualification.

Any ways, advise on a rifle? Has any one assembled their own?

I have quite a bit of smithing experience on single and double action revolvers and have done some barrel work on single shot rifles as well as assembled an AR 15 a4 for a cousin from parts.

So is it cheaper to by an assembled dcm legal rifle from somewhere like rock river arms or buy parts and assault it myself from brownells/similar(I get smith pricing from them)

Thanks

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

It will be simpler, and much faster; to buy one from RRA initially. When you can outshoot it's capabilities, build one. You will have shot a year, and have talked to enough shooters on the course, to know what you need. Resist the urge to modify it though. That is a money pit you will never climb out of.

The RRA will hold value, you can sell it to another "Newb" or have fun playing with different uppers, etc. Also known as a proven backup.

Rich

[GrizzLeeBear]

+1 to IdahoSS

You really won't save anything by building it. You might be able to save some by buying the upper and lower separate though (I did a few years ago). I am assuming you are looking at a "Service Rifle" not a "Match Rifle" since you said DCM. A couple things to keep in mind. There are a number of good DCM uppers out there. RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS, White Oak Armament, etc. Make sure it has a free floated handguard and a 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 twist heavy barrel so you can shoot the 75 / 80 grain match bullets. The RRA service rifle match trigger is a good investment also. It is a MUCH better trigger than a standard AR trigger but is still a minimum of 4 1/2 lbs as required by the rules.
On the other hand, don't get wrapped up into thinking you need the absolute top of the line rifle. I just made Master last season shooting a Box stock DPMS DCM rifle with a RRA service rifle match trigger. Once you get the rifle, don't waste a lot of time "working up" loads. There are several "go to" loads depending on which powders you prefer. Find one of these that shoots 1 MOA (usually an easy task in any good DCM AR) and get off the bench and start shooting in position.
You are probably aware that you will eventually need a good shooting coat, spotting scope, shooting stool, mat, etc. If you haven't already, get to the next shoot your club has, even if you don't have your rifle yet and are just there to watch and learn. Most Highpower shooters are very helpful and enjoy seeing new people that are genuinely interested in becoming involved in the sport. Many have "extra" equipment that they started out with and will gladly loan what they can to newcomers.

[pmer]

I assembled my own lower and bought an Fulton Armory serv. rifle upper. I ordered with .5 MOA elevation and windage adjustments and the screw in aperatures for different size rear peeps. Back then you could choose bettween a 1-7 twist Krieger or a lower cost 1-8 Fulton barrel.

I bought the 1-8 Fulton and it worked great. It could shoot 10's and X's with 80 grain BTHPs at the 600 yard slow fire stage when I was doing my part. All you really need is nice trigger, a quality barrel and the free float tube to keep sling pressure from pulling on the barrel. Your technique and the good accuracy of the AR platform does the rest.

One tip I would like to give ya is stay away from the leather sling with the hooks and use the canvas one with that metal keeper. Its infinitly adjustable, clamps tighter around your arm and is night and day faster to use than the leather match sling.

[DCM]

It is much more cost effective to buy a DCM/ODCMP ready rifle than assemble one period. I have built more than a few and rebarreled even more. Your best bet is to get a RR or Armalite and shoot the barrel out then replace the barrel with the best one you can afford and justify.

As for the sling it is definitely a personal preference. Try one of each before you buy if possible. Most of the shooters at the national matches use a leather sling, some very good shooters do use the canvas sling. You do not want he sling overly tight on your arm,it can greatly reduce blood flow and put a heck of a pulse in your front blade! Jim Owens has a book that discusses the proper use of the sling, he also has a few other good books that can help a service rifle shooter. I don't agree with him 100% of the time but the majority of what he has to say is helpful.

As for service rifle matches check out this http://www.illinoishighpower.org/10-state_schedule/10-state_schedule.htm ,this http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions.htm and this http://www.odcmp.com/NM.htm also look up your and Ohio's state association.

I would highly recommend going to camp Perry if you can. There is nothing like rubbing elbows with the best of AMU and USMC etc. to pick up some great pointers.
Leave your credit card in your car for at least the first TWO trips down commercial row then take a long walk somewhere else before you get that card.

If you are looking for a really good spotting scope PM me I have a spare Kowa.

[82nd airborne]

Im going to go against the grain here and say build it yourself. Several reasons.

1. Everyone asks about your gun at the range, it feels good to say you built it.

2. Its good to know your weapon, you will definatly know it in and out if you build it.

3. If you look around, you can build it cheaper than you can buy from RRA, or anywhere else if you are using a match grade barrel.
Im guessing most are saying its the same price because they are talking about parts kits?
Im not, pick individual parts from wherever.

Here is a hint: Dont buy by brand, because a lot of it is made in the same place, then you pay for whatever name gets stuck on it.

Example: brand x and brand y uppers are on opposite ends of the price spectrum, yet they both come out of the same machines, get anodized in the same tank, and have the same proof mark. That is a rip off, I dont care enough about whover daniel is, to pay an extra $125 bucks for his stripped upper, just because it has his name on it. For that kind of money, it better have my name on it!!!

5. Its fun.

If you start looking at parts and you decide that it does cost the same to build and to buy complete, call me and I will see if I can point you to some retailers that you may not have tried.

[Tracy]

I agree with 82nd; build it yourself. Personally, I wouldn't even consider buying a pre-built AR.
There is another factor too, that hasn't even been mentioned: there is a manufacturing tax on finished guns that doesn't exist on unfinished lowers.
Sure, you may have to pay shipping more than once, but if you shop carefully you can minimize that.

[Bob S]

The Easy Button is a Rock River NM. Right out of the box will shoot High Master scores if the shooter (and ammunition) is capable.

Resp'y,
Bob S

[pmer]

I left high power about 9 years ago. I was shooting some long range too. There was talk of faster twist barrels for .223 and longer bullets (90 grains?) for shooting long range. Are shooters still using that setup?

82nd and Tracy have good points, I recently put together a upper and it wasn't tuff. I found a lightly used 16'' barrel with the extension installed saved more than enough to get one of those bumpy four rail hand gaurds. :-)

[Gunsmoke4570]

I bought the Fulton Armory Mirage complete competition set up. Kinda expensive, but the performance is top notch!

[Reverend Recoil]

I assembled a lower receiver with a Geissele service rifle trigger and added it to a White Oak Armament upper with dual pin rear sight. The $85 lower receiver was made by Anvil Arms. Total cost was about $1200. This rifle will shoot out the X-ring at 200, 300, and 600 yards.

[NuJudge]

I left high power about 9 years ago. I was shooting some long range too. There was talk of faster twist barrels for .223 and longer bullets (90 grains?) for shooting long range. Are shooters still using that setup?


One in 9 is too slow. One in 8 is common. One in 7 is common. Some people have barrels that are even faster.

My experience with 1:9 is that they shoot 52/55gr bullets well, but are iffy about anything heavier. They usually will stabilize bullets up to 75gr, but they don't group well in my rifle.

I've had great luck with a 1:8 barrel shooting 69's and 80's.

I bought a 1:7 upper for when the 1:8 barrel quits on me.

There are some people using 90gr bullets. If you do an Internet search you can find a lot of articles on them.

[sundog]

Firebrick, I'll be 62 this year. I retired from the Army in '94 with 26 years, qualified expert on rifle and pistol the whole time. I started shooting NRA High Power in '95 and never looked back. The expert card came real easy and early on shooting an M1 Garand. Then, there was some experimenting with 03/03A3 and cast boolits, and few other excursions. Until early last year, when I thought to myself that a Master qualification might be "nice". Sooo, I did a bit of research and finally ordered a RRA NM A4. There was NO MISTAKE in that decision (even though I don't really care for ARs that well, but I can shoot them). If you want to shoot service rifle, this one will get you there, right out of the box!

Yesterday was less than ideal conditions; rain, thunder bumpers, a lot of wind. But we shot. How about a 730/800-6X. Not bad for opening tournament of the season. That was shot as a 200 yard reduced course (that's max range at our club). Last year when I got the rifle I put together a load with 69 gr SMK and 2230-C that shoots great. Then on a whim I tried some Midway 55 gr Dogtown HP (their website says they a made by Nosler). At 200 yards, I cannot tell the difference between the two so I'm shooting the 55 gr HPs for the time being if for no other reason than economy. I'll save the SMKs for sometime when I shoot longer ranges. btw, I shoot with service sling.

The only thing that killed me yesterday was my offhand - 166. A 188, just another 22 points, would have put me in Master territory, and I know I can do that. Just had a bad OH match yesterday. I'll log that to a long winter and bad weather -- hey, gotta have an excuse, eh?

The point here is that if you are going to do this, just order a quality, complete rifle with a good trigger and be done with it. Go shoot it.

[c3d4b2]

We (as well of others) have had good luck with White Oak Armament uppers. You may also want to investigate the pinned rear sight.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/

[akajun]

Ill second the nm RRA setup. In my opinion, you can not build one of that quality any cheaper. If they offer a 1/4 min sight get that option. Then when you burn out that barrell, either buy a new upper from John Hollinger at White Oak Precision with a krieger barrell and pinned 1/4 sights. Or send him your old upper for a rebarrell and sight pinning.

Whatever you do, make sure your gun has a wylde chamber.

Here is what I have noticed about top service rifle shooters, they spend more time at the range shooting than buying the newest most espensive thing and the newest load.

[firebrick43]

Thankyou gentelman. I will probably go withthe rra. Now I need the convince the wife to open the purse strings. After my recent dillon 650 purchase that may take some wrangling

[reloader62]

I'd say build your own,you WILL save a couple hundred bucks. I built mine and had at the time of getting the kit in the mail never even held one before,in 2 days it was done with the help of an exploded parts chart. DPMS has good kits that you can take out and add parts upon order ,such as a suggested free float tube,smaller rear peep & front post. A match trigger is a must too, research all available,I got a JP trigger and love it but there is so many others,I like the thought of the drop in modular Chip McCormick if you can get one thats 4 1/2 lbs pull. National match rear site would be good too. My twist is 1 in 8" and I shoot 80 gr bullets just fine but when I build a new match rifle ill get 1-7. Dont think there is a big advantage to go with the 'modified' AR over the standard issue,look at the scores at Camp Perry matches.

[akajun]

I would like to add that one of our juniors just went Distinguished, and is a Master, bumping at high master, shooting a Bushmaster DCM gun with 1/4 sights.
Dont count out the Bushmaster either.

As far as triggers go, I wouldnt use anything other than a Geiselle, RRA, or Bushmaster in that order. Two stage only, single stage ar triggers do not hold their pull weight over time and will need replacement.

[GabbyM]

There is a match in Illinois Sunday May 1st at Effingham County Sportsman's Club.

I think they usually shoot a 200 yard 80 shot course.

Effingham is where I-57 and I-70 intersect. Club is about seven minutes off the big road.

[sundog]

The club I shoot at is Oil Capital, east of Tulsa, north of Coweta, Oklahoma. The tournament is every 4th Saturday through October, show time 8:00 a.m. Competitors may choose between the 50-round National Match Course or the 80-round Tournament Course. Either course of fire may be shot at 100 or 200 yards, competitors choice. It is an NRA approved tournament, and guests are welcome.

We usually have a low turn out, but we shoot to the rule book with a good range master, we and have a good time. Scoped .22 RF, 100 yd, off the bench, match always follows high power - relaxed bunch of "good ole boys" having fun shooting some pretty nice small bores.

If anyone cares, I made a mistake when I reported my X count above. It was 12, not 6. Only reason I mention that is, if I do what I'm supposed to do, that rifle (RRA NM A4) will shoot Xs and 10s.

Akajun, keep those juniors motivated!!! And, I'll second your recommendation about lots of range time. Work out the bugs, develop good habits, and shoot, shoot, shoot.

[pmer]

sundog, I like your point of using regular bullets for shorter ranges. My first service rifle is my '40's Springfield M1 Garand. I shot that quite a bit and when I had Douglas barrel installed I learned it could shoot 125 grain spitzers very good and that was all I used for shorter ranges. With the Garand and my .308 bolt action I would search for good loads with lighter bullets to keep recoil down at 200 and 300 and reduced 100 yards.

It is pretty nice when all 4 stages come together for a good score. Something would usually happen to mess me up. We would always have a scorer and would have less to do with our own scoring.

With the AR I had seperate zeros for the standing and sitting stage because of canting the rifle. For standing I would turn it to the left a little to keep ears level to the ground and sitting I would go to the right because it seemed more comfortable and repeatable when I would get into the sitting position.

[brimic2]

Like others said, just buy a NM RRA and it will be ready to shoot right out of the box.
I built mine from a Bushmaster A3 20" model that I shot for a few years first- replaced the trigger (RRA NM), added a float tube (Fulton Armory) which required a steady hand on the dremel tool to clearance the handguards, d/t's the FSB for windage set screws, D/T the bottom of the front sight post and added set screw to take up play in front sight. Filed the profile of the front sight to a narrower 0.050" profile, rebarrelled, Cut the bottom stop out of the rear sight elevation screw to give a larger range of adjustment, added smaller rear aperture. Added a ziplock bag of lead shot to buttrap to balance the rifle. Its unique and its mine, but it would have cost about the same as buying a RRA NM in the first place, but I like to tinker....
You will eventually need to learn to rebarrel it- the barrels are about good for 3500-5000 rounds, then they can **** out at any time.