The latest on the C&R FFL thing

[bullpen7979]

Had thought about this; looks like it might be a good way to reduce the cost of reloading supplies. Can someone play a little devil's advocate for me here?
(Not the paranoid kind, but genuine advice as to why one might not want to pursue this?) It seems as though the $30 would be easy enough to recover after discounts (if those are still a fact of life), but not knowing the ins and outs, I thought I'd solicit some collective wisdom on the matter.

Thanks again listers. Just puttin this whole reloading equation together in my head here.....

[spqrzilla]

Not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if the FFL discount among some online retailers makes it worth getting a C&R FFL? Sometimes. Midway gives me a discount but its not always a huge one. Midway, as an example however, also raises the minimum order for "dealers" to get dealer pricing to $40 if memory serves.

[timkelley]

It seems to me to be worth the trouble. Watch the sales policies of the various dealers as spqrzilla says. Some dealers will charge extra if a minimum order is not made so just pay attention to what you order and try to lump your orders together.

[garandsrus]

Grafs and Brownells give pretty good discounts for a C&R FFL. Midway is not much. It's definitely worth it.

John

[462]

Initially, I got mine as a way to legally circumvent my state's extremely onerous gun laws. It wasn't till later that I found out about dealer discounts from the various gun-related suppliers.

Even with minimum order amounts and the, sometimes, small discount, over the course of the three-year license period, I save more than its $30 cost. Plus, I can still have qualifying guns shipped directly to my house.

[bullpen7979]

Ok. Sounds like it might save some. I have heard the ATF folks may want to meet with me? Is that correct? Anything I should know about this meeting? (again, if that's really real)

The way I understand it, first you turn in the form to local law enforcement, then they forward to the BATF?

[BorderBrewer]

Hi Bullpen,
You send the application form to the ATF and send a copy to your local CLEO. Never heard of anyone having to meet with ATF although it is possible for them to audit you. When I first got mine I purchased many C&R forearms but lately I just take advantage of the dealer pricing from many suppliers. Here's some info that was helpful to me when I first applied.

http://www.cruffler.com/becomingcruffler.html

Regards,
BorderBrewer

[Czech_too]

I feel that it's well worth the $30 spent. You can easily recoup that through the discount pricing given by some suppliers. The key is to order in quantity though. Graf's has a $100 minimum for example. I don't believe Brownell's has one. Midway I don't order much through anymore. Their 'discount' really isn't that much.

I haven't had anyone pay me a visit, yet, but that is a possibility that comes with the license.

[twotoescharlie]

If you get a C&R get rid of your credit cards

TTC

[462]

Though the ATF can audit you, it's unlikely. With their recent cock-up of allowing guns to be illegally sold to the Mexican drug gangs, and the subsequent murder of a Border Patrolman with one of those guns, a C&R licensee is the least of their worries.

The requirement to include your C. L. E. O. in the loop is just a heads-up, for him/her. No action on their part is required. I enlose a copy of my application in an envelope addressed to him and leave it at the department's information desk, and have never even had so much as an inquiring phone call.

[bumpo628]

Though the ATF can audit you, it's unlikely. With their recent cock-up of allowing guns to be illegally sold to the Mexican drug gangs, and the subsequent murder of a Border Patrolman with one of those guns, a C&R licensee is the least of their worries.

The requirement to include your C. L. E. O. in the loop is just a heads-up, for him/her. No action on their part is required. I enlose a copy of my application in an envelope addressed to him and leave it at the department's information desk, and have never even had so much as an inquiring phone call.

I thought you had to get them to sign your application. That is the only reason I haven't been able to finish my application. I can't get off work to go down to the police station during business hours to get them to sign the thing.

By the way, can you have guns shipped to another address besides your residence? I could have it shipped to my in-laws house since someone is home all day to sign for it.

[JSimpson65]

I thought you had to get them to sign your application. That is the only reason I haven't been able to finish my application. I can't get off work to go down to the police station during business hours to get them to sign the thing.

By the way, can you have guns shipped to another address besides your residence? I could have it shipped to my in-laws house since someone is home all day to sign for it.

The local law enforcement doesn't have to sign - you just send them a copy for informational purposes.

I believe the firarms can only be shipped to the address on your C&R.

[462]

bumpo628,
Re-read the instructions.

Just drop off an application copy at the local cop shop. Nowhere in the instructions does it say that the C.L.E. O's. signature is required.

Guns have to be shipped on the address on the license, as stated in the instructions.

[spqrzilla]

No signature.

No visit from the ATF for most people.

[2wheelDuke]

I just got mine in the mail last week. It took something like 6 weeks. Nobody I've talked to that got theirs ever heard from their local Chief of Law Enforcement.

Since I happen to work for mine, I just dropped the copy off while I was at the station one day.

I'm not sure about discounts on reloading stuff, I got it because there's a few C&R eligible guns I'd like to have, and paying the local FFL $35 to have a gun costing less than $200 sent to me is garbage.

[waksupi]

Brownell's does give a discount.

[bumpo628]

I just re-read the form.
It looks like they have a shipping address that can be different from the residence. So, all I have to do is fill out the in-laws address on the form.

Regarding the CLEO,
You guys are correct. A signature is not required; all I have to do is look up their name and address.

[462]

"I just re-read the form.
It looks like they have a shipping address that can be different from the residence. So, all I have to do is fill out the in-laws address on the form."


Hmmm, the person named on the license is the only person allowed to receive the guns. Think about it. You can e-mail the ATF. Whenever I've had to contact them, their replies have been prompt.

[L Ross]

It is easy, it is worth it, just follow the rules and you'll have no problem. Imagine your delight when you stumble across a nice C&R eligible firearm on an out of state trip in some little gun shop and you pull the C&R photo copy out of your wallet and walk out the door with your new found treasure, it happens. The discounts will pay for the 30 dollar for three year fee.

Duke

[waksupi]

I just re-read the form.
It looks like they have a shipping address that can be different from the residence. So, all I have to do is fill out the in-laws address on the form.

Regarding the CLEO,
You guys are correct. A signature is not required; all I have to do is look up their name and address.

You better read that again, and call BATF. It has to be delivered to your place of residence.

[bumpo628]

"I just re-read the form.
It looks like they have a shipping address that can be different from the residence. So, all I have to do is fill out the in-laws address on the form."


Hmmm, the person named on the license is the only person allowed to receive the guns. Think about it. You can e-mail the ATF. Whenever I've had to contact them, their replies have been prompt.

Do you have a link for where it says that you must sign for your own gun? I'm sure many guns are received by spouses of the C&R holder.

According to the ATF, you may ship a gun to another state and the person who receives it is allowed to do so as long as they do not open the package.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional


Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

Ultimately, I suppose I'll have to contact the BATF.

[troyboy]

Best 30 bucks you will ever spend. That is only 10 a year think about it.

[ChuckS1]

It'll pay for itself on the first C&R gun you buy that you don't have to pay a transfer fee on.

[462]

"Do you have a link for where it says that you must sign for your own gun? I'm sure many guns are received by spouses of the C&R holder."

I've either had to sign for the gun, upon delivery. If I wasn't at home, I had to go to the UPS location and sign for it.

"According to the ATF, you may ship a gun to another state and the person who receives it is allowed to do so as long as they do not open the package."

True. But your initial question was about buying a gun, not shipping one to yourself. They are two different senarios.

[bumpo628]

"Do you have a link for where it says that you must sign for your own gun? I'm sure many guns are received by spouses of the C&R holder."

I've either had to sign for the gun, upon delivery. If I wasn't at home, I had to go to the UPS location and sign for it.

"According to the ATF, you may ship a gun to another state and the person who receives it is allowed to do so as long as they do not open the package."

True. But your initial question was about buying a gun, not shipping one to yourself. They are two different senarios.

I know, but it was the closest scenario that applies. The point is that someone besides the person on the package can sign for a gun, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it applies to a C&R purchase.

The whole argument is really irrelevant if I can go to a UPS location and pick it up. It depends on their business hours then.

[Longwood]

It seems like the dealers here in California are trying there best to keep guns out of the state by ripping people off with their ridiculously priced transfer fees. Charging $35 to $70 to have ME fill out and sign a couple of pieces of paper, is nothing short of, out of control greed, in my eyes.
Is there a set price for a transfer or can I spend the $30 and charge people a decent fee, say $10 for a transfer or is there more involved than a couple of forms, an envelope and a 49 cent stamp?
The greedy ones got a phone call from me but that was it and from the looks of their stores they are about to go belly up. No wonder!

[462]

One further comment, that hopefully will clarify your concern.

The license has a "Premises Address" box which is the location of the activity, in this case collecting. Also, there is a "Mailing Address" box. The two addressess may be the same or they may be different. However, firearms sellers can only ship to the "Premises Address".

Guns may be stored off-premises, but not received off-premises. If stored off-premises, the guns still need to be logged into your "bound book".

I recall a time when my wife signed for the gun, so, yes, as long as the gun is delivered to the premises address, anyone can sign for it.

Hope this helps.

[462]

Longwood
I believe that the state regulates the transfer fee, and it must be posted in the store.

A C&R license does not permit the licensee to engage in selling, other than to dispose of, or enhanse his personal collection. If you want to buy and sell firearms, than you need a dealer license. Good luck trying to get one of those, in California.

[UnderDawgAl]

You'll recoup the cost on your first Brownells order.

[Longwood]

I was thinking about guns people bought from a person out of state and simply need them shipped here to CA.. I have seen several on gunbrokers for instance that I would like to bid on but the added on nonsense is a deal breaker.
I have known two friends that had FFL's but one died from an over dose of prescribed pain pills and the other moved.

[corvette8n]

If you get a C&R get rid of your credit cards

TTC

or get used to living on Ramen noodles;)


more reasons to get your C&R FFL:

$10 buck a year how can you go wrong.
Guns shipped to your door.
Think of the history you will be preserving.
The money you save can be used to buy another safe:D

[GSaltzman]

Had one of those in the 90's until ATF came to my home and took it away. At the time I was training with a seasoned gunsmith at his place a few days a week and working on some repairs in my shop at home and selling some guns. All my records were in order and the agent said that my record keeping was one of the best she had seen but I didn't sell enough guns to keep it. Told me I could refuse to turn it in to her right there but they would take me to court and I would loose. I new this was at the time the results from the Clinton administration coming into affect. I was told if I surrendered it immediately she would see to it that I could get another one in a few months if I wanted to reapply. Just not worth it to me to deal with the government. My plans were to broaden my shop after retirement from my current job. It was admitted to me that they were under order to reduce the amount of FFL's in peoples hands at the time. It may be more relaxed at this time but that I'm not sure of. Good luck.

[markinalpine]

I agree that mjost of the time Midway's dealer discount isn't very much, but check anyway. I got one of those new Redfield scopes for $140, instead of the regular almost $200. [smilie=w:

Mark :coffeecom

[Wayne Smith]

I don't know of anyone who was visited for an 03 license. I was visited, but that was for my 06 (Manufacturers) license.

[MT Gianni]

If you get a C&R get rid of your credit cards

TTC

Please explain.

[spqrzilla]

Please explain.
He means you'll go broke.

[spqrzilla]

Longwood

A C&R license does not permit the licensee to engage in selling, other than to dispose of, or enhanse his personal collection. If you want to buy and sell firearms, than you need a dealer license. Good luck trying to get one of those, in California.

That's not how I would express it.

This is an area of much confusion. What a C&R license does not do is allow you to buy and sell for your livelihood. You can buy and sell all that you want, and you can even do so profitably but not in order to make a living.

A lot of people seem to want to skirt the edge on C&R licenses.

Basically, if you sell a firearm and say to yourself, "great, now I can go buy the M1903 Colt I want" you are fin. If you say to yourself, "great, now I can pay the rent", you are not within the boundaries of the C&R license.