9mm brass woes

[GRUMPA]

I have tried and tried on my own to try and find a fix for these annoying little cases and without a lot of luck on my end. All of the brass is range brass I've had for years, I have a RCBS carbide sizer die that I took into work and machined the face of the die flush with the carbide insert that's in there. Seems to help with the rejects but I get around 15% reject rate with my case gauge.


And the issue is always at the same spot on the brass case itself, just right above the extractor groove. I used a 357 sizer backed up .060 and it helps some but the cartridge itself when assembling it has a wasp waist look about it. I've tried to do searches on this sight and a lot pertains to straight wall cases.


Has anyone found a solution to this as I'm surely not the only one that has come across this issue. And I have looked at those case-pro things but for what they want for one of those things it's unaffordable. I also used a friend of mines LEE 9mm sizer along time ago but that really didn't work all that great either.:killingpc

[Doby45]

Take a Lee 9mm Factory Crimp Die and remove the guts and then push the case all the way through. It will be SAAMI specs.

[GRUMPA]

But what do you use to push it thru the die with?

[Wally]

I havehad that happen as well..a Lyman carbide sizer die will make a "belt" on some 9mm fired cases.. I sent the die to Lyman and was told it was "within specs"....I finally solved the problem by using a Steel RCBS 9mm sizer die... A PITA to use as you must use messy lube, but no more belts... Brass is too valuable to waste anymore.

[Doby45]

You can push it through with whatever you want. You can go as high tech as getting a Lee 355 sizing die and using the pusher that comes with that, or you can do like me and find a small deep well socket that will push it through.

[GRUMPA]

A small deep well socket.... talk about being creative, sounds like I just may need to order a LEE sizer.:holysheep

[Doby45]

LOL, it NEVER hurts to have a sizer. Now the sizer I am talking about is for the 355 cast boolit. But you use the pusher part as your brass pusher.. OR if you plan to shoot a 30 cal rifle you can get one of the 309-311 sizers and use that pusher.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/Doby45/Capture-4.jpg

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=501819

[GRUMPA]

Actually I have one of those, but which end of the case do you start in to the die with? the head or the case mouth? Just wanted to be specific as possible with this as your aware of I've never done.

[Doby45]

You push it through mouth first almost like sizing a boolit nose first. Think of the FCD in your press as if it was the sizing die. You insert the brass in the same way as you do when you are sizing it but with the FCD you just push it all the way through..

[Doby45]

I just did a quick youtube search and it appears ammosmith has done a video on this very thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-PszuLwEu8

[ReloaderFred]

You can always put the case gauge up on the shelf and use the barrel of your pistol as the true gauge. As long as the rounds chamber and fire correctly in your firearm, that's all you really need.

I have the Magma Case Master Jr. that pushes the case all the way through a carbide sizing die and takes out the bulge you're talking about. Yes, it's expensive, but it works. http://magmaengineering.com/products/case-master-jr-rimless-case-sizer

If you do decide to push the cases all the way through a die, you'll find it much easier if you lube them first, since you're sizing solid brass. It will be easier on you, the die and the brass. You should also use a push rod that will fit inside the brass and push it through the die base first. If you push mouth first, you'll end up with brass with tool marks on the headstamp area of the cases. It's also easier to align them with the mouth of the sizing die when the push rod is inside the case.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[GRUMPA]

Clicked on that site and realized it's a modified DRAKE press. I worked in machining for over 25yrs and had lots of those floating around. Couldn't get rid of them either, you almost had to give them away. Wish I was working for 1 now I'd make 1 of my own, for a whole lot less.

[1hole]

"Seems to help with the rejects but I get around 15% reject rate with my case gauge."

Okay. But, do they chamber in your handgun? if they do, you have no problem.

[GRUMPA]

In 9mm rounds I load those up for other folks I don't personally own anything in 9mm. I just have so much of that brass (22K) I make some $ selling that to get the stuff I need for what I have.

[noylj]

Wasp waist is a very good thing in 9x19 and .40. This will give the case the best grip on the bullet. Also, the bullet is also kept from being pushed in by the narrow section acting as a stop.
Next, is your issue cosmetic or functional? If cosmetic, don't sweat it.
If functional, then your issue is brass that has a slight bulge and the bulged section is getting pressed down and leaving a ridge at the web of the case. This has caused me failures to chamber.
I have been told by Lee that there is no push-through die for the 9x19 because of the case taper.
I have considered getting a Lee FCD specially made to about 0.002" above 9mm Mak dimensions.
Never tried to push a 9x19 case through the Lee 9x19 FCD.
They video is for .40S&W and that works great.
I have tossed about 2 cases out of 1000s for this problem.
I suspect that this happens with range pick-up brass that someone loaded to meet major power factor in whatever action pistol events call for HOT 9x19s.

[r6487]

i reload lots of 9mm, including lots of military brass, for open and closed bolt smgs. i never want sizing issues. machining down to the sizing ring may help but another trick is to machine down the top of the shell holder 0.020"-0.025" or so. if you have a tall enough shell holder and have issues with oversize at the bottom of the case the sizer may never reach the area you are having problems with. shooting 9mm in "unsupported" chambers (where a portion of the base of cartridge is outside the chamber) with weak cases can cause case bulge that may or may not be visible. glocks are associated with this problem; also dies for progressive presses with flared mouths will never get to that area to resize either.

[Doby45]

I can confirm that you are NOT gonna push a 9mm case through a 9mm factory crimp die. I tried it and it just don't work due to the taper. I was pushin that thing hard too. Finally, I had to hammer the 9mm piece of brass out of the FCD. The 40 does work exactly as described due to it being straight walled.

[GRUMPA]

Well I appreciate the heads up as I didn't order it yet. Just for kicks I tried the same thing on my RCBS dies and had the same luck you did.

[nicholst55]

Take a look at the undersize sizing dies (http://www.egwguns.com/undersized-reloading-dies/undersize-reloading-dies/) from EGW; they size the brass to .001" under SAAMI spec, and they size further down the case than standard dies. Well worth the $29 they cost!

[GRUMPA]

nicholst55 I clicked on that link and had me wondering. On my RCBS sizer die the carbide insert was recessed much like the one in the photo. I took it to work and put it in an ID grinder with a diamond wheel and took off .010 to make it flush with the carbide insert. That wasn't enough so I ended up grinding the I.D. radius of the insert itself off, worked out to be almost .090 more and while it helped with the rejects, it didn't eliminate it 100%. But I always appreciate input and as poster r6487 mentioned taking the shell holder itself down about .020 and give that a try. I've done this with a couple of other shell holders I have but haven't with the 9mm one yet.


NOTE: I had the same idea as the magma link earlier and have carbide to make something like that but being as remote as I am I don't have access to a properly tooled machine shop.