Loading Paper Patch in the 303 british questions

[brstevns]

Thanks to everyone I am now ready to try loading some PP in my 303 British, I am wondering do you guys resize your brass? Do you size the neck of the case or crimp to help hold the bullet in place? I am sure this would also apply to PP bullets in any rifle cartridge?

[docone31]

I use the Lee collet dies.
I sent my dies to Lee with a sample of the size paper patch I use.
I did this after I found the size. In my case, my Smelly castings go .314.
You will find, the SMLE is a great rifle to patch to. They hit 1 MilDot higher than jacketed at 100yds.
No crimp. Just a slight squeeze down when loading.

[pdawg_shooter]

When loading hunting rounds I neck size mine. For paper punching when I can baby my ammo I dont size any. I also just seat the bullet about 1/4" into the case and let the rifle finish seating them.

[brstevns]

I plan on using mine to hunt with.

[docone31]

I do not crimp, and I can load the magazine and fire them all with no creep out.
Just tension the neck.
I suspect, the wax I use for sizeing lube grips the case slightly.

[brstevns]

If I have this figured right fire off some 303's to get some brass, do not size brass, but seat bullet into the fire case without sizing and see how it works?

[MBTcustom]

Hey buddy, I'm going to tell you the process that I have developed from info gleaned from other posters. At least this is how I do it.
1. Buy good quality ammo or load up some good quality brass.
2. Install rubber o-rings on the bases of the cartridges to align them concentric with the chamber. "trust me, if you care about accuracy any more than spraying the berm, this matters!"
3. fire-form the brass.

Now that you have perfectly sized brass, get a Boolit-paper combo that will provide boolits that will press snugly into the fire-formed cases. "this takes a little experimenting with different papers, and you may need to get a size die that will give you the perfect size, but when you get all the details worked out it is a true pleasure to load ammo with nothing more than a dipper, funnel, and a hand primer. Think about it, no press! I mean that's how it was done in the wild west! "Kinda hard to bolt the old rock-chucker to the old saddle!"

[MBTcustom]

A couple more tips that I forgot to mention.
Don't worry so much about the quality of the paper, as you do about the quality of your wraps. If you cant wrap those suckers tight as a drum with your fingers, then use docone31s cigarette roller trick.
Find a paper lube that works for you. I melt bees wax and add olive oil until its just about as soft as bar soap when cool. I roll my patched boolits across it.
Use the slowest powder that you can get away with. I get my best groups from IMR4831.

[brstevns]

goodsteel Thanks for all the information. I have heard of loaders using tape at the brass base to keep brass centered?

[MBTcustom]

Yes, tape will work too but its fussier than the o-rings. I found out how important this was when I was working up accuracy loads for the 303. I would seem to get good groups, then it would all fall apart with no apparent reason. I finally ended up taking my entire reloading setup to the range. "I had noticed that the bases of my brass were off center but didn't think anything of it." After hours of frustration and chasing my tail, I finally took one piece of brass, marked a spot on the base, and loaded it and fired it again and again, making sure that the case was indexed to the same location every time. the results where eye opening to say the least. I went from a 4-5 inch group @ 40yards to five holes almost touching.:holysheep need I say more?

[303Guy]

I went from a 4-5 inch group @ 40yards to five holes almost touching. need I say more? Wow! I've often heard of the o-ring trick but have never done it. Now I'm going to go out and locate some suitable o-rings! What size should I be looking for?

goodsteel has nailed it. Size the patched boolit to the fired case neck and go shoot. Be careful not to actually expand the neck when seating the boolit. I still use a press for seating as I seat mine tight enough not to move by themselves. The paper compresses on seating but the correct amount can be measured with a micrometer on the case neck (on the same spot) before and after seating. The neck expansion will be scarcely detectable. Strong fingers will be able to seat them too. I use a twisting motion to get them in but once in I cannot pull them out again. (My fingers are not strong enough for routine seating by hand and in fact, I have to finish the operation by press when I do try. But mine are quite tight).

I don't hunt dangerous game so my unsized neck seating is what I take into the field. I have found that after a few loadings the neck does get a little loose requiring a custom resizing job. Don't anneal your paper patch cases - you can but then you might have to custom size. You do not want to increase the patched boolit size to compensate for loss of neck grip. By then the neck is at chamber size and cannot expand to release the boolit and pressure goes up.

[nanuk]

I'm liking what I'm reading here.

here is what I was thinking before I had read much on the subject.

use the O-ring trick. I had read about that a long time ago.

then after fireforming, size the boolit to be a snug fit
then use an M-die and play with the step diameter so the brass still fits, to ease seating of the boolit.

then play with expander sizes to get That size so the boolit fits the same. then if the brass needs resizing, I can set the neck again without fireforming it. and use an O-ring to reset the brass overall size.

I am probably overthinking this..... a good chamfer would probably do the same thing!

[nanuk]

goodsteel Thanks for all the information. I have heard of loaders using tape at the brass base to keep brass centered?


I think the tape works well for rimless, the O-ring for rimmed.

O-ring might work for rimless, but you'd need to get the extractor Ahead of the O-ring so the brass is forced back against the bolt face.

tape centers the brass, but does not hold it back, the false shoulder, or long seated boolit would do that. O-ring appears to accomplish both

[303Guy]

... use an O-ring to reset the brass overall size.No need to re-do the o-ring trick once the shoulder has set to fill the chamber. Only resize the neck if necessary. It might pay to measure the neck OD after fire-forming to ensure that the neck always remains a shade free in the chamber. Mind you, I know I have a few cases that are tight in the neck area when chambered but I allow it because the loading is low enough to allow for that increased chamber pressure. No good for consistancy though.

[pdawg_shooter]

Another trick I have used to help center up fire formed brass is to flare the case mouth and leave the flare there after loading. Flare the case enough that you feel a slight drag when cambering.

[303Guy]

I've done the case mouth flaring trick too. Now to combine it with the o-ring trick.

[nanuk]

Pdawg, flaring is accomplishing the same thing I was thinking when I mentioned the M-die

I can see how a flare would be much easier tho, as you control the OD with the depth of stroke vs. the diameter of the expander....

makes more sense, and keeps it simple!

[brstevns]

Seems to make sense to me, I will give her a try.

[Mykos]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm just getting set up to start reloading for an Enfield so it's relevant. What size o-ring should I be looking for to do this o-ring trick ? Is there a good thread explaining it in detail, or is it just as simple as rolling an oring down against the rim and shooting as normal ?

[303Guy]

Here's a picture I posted on a thread which I shall try to find for you.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/001-3.jpg

The exact size is not cast in stone. That particular one that works is 1.5mm thick. It stretches onto the case. It's a shade thinner than the rim thickness.