How hot to load my 38-55

[northmn]

I ahve found a load using 3031 for my 38-55 that hits about 1800 fps using the plain based Lee bullet. Somewhere, probably the Lyman manual, I remember reading that plain based bullets should be kept around 1600 or so or they will lead. My bore miked at 377 and I use a 379 bullet but fairly soft for hunting. I also lube with Lee liquid alox and apply lube in the lube grooves when I size them to 379. Have to size them to chamber them. Just curious if others exceed that 1600 fps with their plain based bullets in whatever they shoot. I ahve used the same alloy with good effect at 2000 with gas checks.

DP

[Catshooter]

The only way to know if a given boolit at a given speed in a given rifle (enough 'givens' for ya?) will lead is to try it. Each bore is a rule unto itself.

Case in point, my first .38-55's bore and the as cast diameter of my first mould for it were the same diameter. Exactly the same. Not good, say most. But I tried it anyway and after some 500 rounds it still hadn't leaded at all. Zero.

So try it, it might just work.


Cat

[1Papalote]

I shoot my Lee 250s as cast at .381 in my Marlin 38-55 factory conversion. I have used Unique (slow), 2400 (faster) and Re7 (I have no idea, assume faster). None of these have left lead in the barrel(LLA lubed). Accuracy is great with 2400, but I too would like a flatter path, am content with this performance for now.

To load the Winchester brass, I deprime with a Lee universal decapper, bell the mouth, prime, powder, seat the bullet to crimp groove and then give a light, gentle nudge in an empty sizer die. Works great for me!!

1Papalote

[Bret4207]

It's like Cat says, try it and see.

[northmn]

I knew I needed to try it and have. There is not any serious leading, and I have cleaned the gun to make sure. It seems to group at a level where I wonder if its me or the load. I am trying 4198 as I have not had as good of luck getting good groups with slower powders, although 3031 has worked for me. I was curious about other experiences with plain based bullets at higher velocity, not necessarily in a 38-55. Kind of like the issue of microgroove rifling.

DP

[John Taylor]

Please be careful with your reloads on the 38-55. I just did a rebarrel on a 94 that had the barrel split just in front of the action for about 3 " do to someones hand loads being a little hot. The primer showed a little pressure sign by starting to flatten. Shooter was very lucky that it went up instead of down.

[475BH]

northmn, The .38-55 never was and shouldn't be a +P round. You would just be wasting brass. If you don't use 3031, then how about H-322. I have read some good reviews about that powder in the 38-55.
BTW I shot a nice 7 pt.WT a few years back w/ my M-CB in .38-55 at a lil over 150 yds. thru the pines, north of Hibbing. He didn't know what hit him.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

BTW2 Check out the data on the Hodgdon site above for the .38-55, they cover cast as well as those wonderful Barnes bullets. On the deer above, I was using a Barnes bullet and it zipped right on thru, you can't ask anything more than that. W/ standard pressures btw.

[McLintock]

If you're trying to get 1800 fps, I'd definitely go with a gas check bullet, both due to the possible leading issue and accuracy. I use a load of 31 grs of 3031 in my Browning 1885, with the Lyman 378449 and it shoots exceptional, with positively no leading. With a plain base bullet, 4227 does well with a 250 gr'er, at about 1450 fps. I came up with both these loads after reading John Waters Pet Loads article on the 38-55. I had tried a bunch of powders and these two loads outshot anything I tried up to that point. RL7 did pretty good for a hot load, but again with a gas check bullet. I think Winchester had some "Express" loads for the 38-55 years ago that were up there so 1800 fps ought to be OK in either a lever gun or single shot.
McLintock

[northmn]

I backed down to 1650 fps more or less and started getting groups more like I expected. I never exceeded the recommended manual loads for 3031 and was surprised when I got the 1800+ with the load I was using. I really was not going for that hot a load it happend. The primers show no flatening. I tried Winchester cases and a 377 bullet and they were really wild so I am back to fire formed Remington and 379's. (My ususal suppliers are out of Starline until July) The 1450 would be OK for my uses if I can get the alloy to agree for expansion. I personally think we get into a kind of circle where we harden the alloy to get more velocity and then eed the velocity for it to maybe expand. I shot a couple with a Barnes bullet at about 1600 over the chronograph and they performed well. Looking at the 1650 group I may back off a bit more yet. I am not seeing leading as much as it just don't seem to shoot that well. The 3031 may not be the problem as much as the alloy. I use about an equivalent of 1/2 to 1/3 lead to WW.

DP

[405]

I didn't know what type of gun you were shooting (thought maybe it was a modern, strong SS) but in a 94 that 1800 fps do seem to hot. I shoot a couple of pre-1900 94s in 38-55 and won't go anywhere near those velocities (pressures). Cast 255 gr GC loads around 1400-1450 fps (chronographed) have a certain sound and recoil I don't like even though I know that is within the gun's capability. My best (full power) load in the 94 38-55 is a 255 gr GC over 16-17 gr 5744 with dacron filler at 1300+/- fps.

[northmn]

Its a Marlin Cowboy model. The manual stated 35 grains was max I tried 32. I did not think it would kick out like that but the cases are a little shorter and the bullets are a little bigger. When I used Winchester cases and a 377 bullet it was closer to the manual listing. The primers showed no flating and the cases resized easier. I plan on cutting back a little more. See how it does at about 1500 more or less. It is within listing for a 94 Winchestr.

DP

[JesterGrin_1]

If you have the Marlin 336 Cowboy in 38-55. Then this is the max load by Ranch Dog outdoors for his TLC379-235-RF which is a Gas Check Design.

Powder , Max Grains , Case Density % , FPS , Pressure K

H-322 36.0 105% 2112 39.5

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC379235RF/data/loadnotes02.pdf

[405]

Marlin lever... got it. The Lyman manual lists the 249 gr plain base over 35 gr 3031 as their max at 25.6KCUP and 1812 fps. SAAMI lists 30KCUP as max so you are right on the top line. I know that Winchester and maybe others used to load up some hotter loads for the 38-55. I think the operative word is USED TO. The standard factory load now is about 1300 fps. The cartridge and guns so chambered and factory loadings spanned the BP to smokeless era. In 38-55 I still like the cast GC bullet loaded to about 1300 fps. I have other guns/calibers that will cleanly kill big game at 200+ yards if that is what is called for.

I tried early on with the older Win 94s to use the standard plain base bullet. Two things I found: leading and instability. Cure: .379-.380 GC bullet. Didn't even mess with plain base leading experimentation at a certain velocity when leading and instability were part and parcel of the load combo from the start.

[KCSO]

When I shot my Marlin CB 38-55 I ran it up to 1850 with no leadin using Carnuba Red lube. I was casting from wheel weight and lino alloy. Shoot about 15 without cleaning and if it isn't leading don't worry, that 1600 isn't carved in stone it's just a guideline.

[northmn]

At 1600 with my alloy it is starting to behave using my alloy. I want a load that will give hits out to about 150 yards max with a high hold on the deer and will likely be using the rifle in wooded stands where 50 to 75 yards will be the norm. The max range is maybe a little optimistic as my ability to shoot with receiver sights has been going downhill. I do not shoot the gun a lot as compared to my 32-20 and 357. The Lyman #48 manual starting loads are at about 1500+ for their 248 grain lead bullet, but that is with #2 alloy. My fire formed cases are miked at 1.996 as compared to the 2.085 standard. That and the use of a 379 bullet may be making them step out a bit with the same powder charge over the manual's lists. If Lyman mikes a bore at 377, they use a 377 bullet. 3031 fills the case up to the base of the bullet. When I used the Barnes bullet I did not have 3031 and tried 748. It gave about 1600 with a compressed charge. Looks like I am going to be shooting at about 1550 which should permit expansion. Too bad they do not make a Gould bullet for the 38-55.

DP

[Catshooter]

I use the Lyman 375449 (284 grains checked and lubed) over AA 2230 in my 94. Twenty six inch barrel and I get just a bit over 1750 fps using .30-30 brass. A three inch group at 150 yards that was an inch and a half low (100 yard zero) and quite round.

These throw the steel chickens five or six feet and knock the Rams down solidly too.


Cat

[John Taylor]

Just got these in, 38-55 hand loads in a model 94 Winchester.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/DSC00519.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/DSC00521.jpg

[doubs43]

^ OUCH!! John, do you have any idea what went wrong? A double charge of fast powder maybe? Or just pushed the load too far trying for more velocity?

I hope the shooter is OK.

[hydraulic]

catshooter: How much of that 2230 are you using behind the 375449?

[excess650]

I've used Reloader 7, AA2015, and AA2200 in my 1899 Savage 38-55. H322 would be another powder with similar burn rate. I'm not shooting plainbase, but rather the 280gr GC 375449. 26gr Reloader 7, 28-30gr AA2015, and 30-32gr AA2200. These aren't piker loads, but aren't hard on brass in my largish chamber. Reloader 7 seemed less linear in case expansion the these other powders, so don't use it for hotrod loads.

With the 1-18" twist you might be able to get accuracy at higher velocity than normally assumed(1600fps) for quicker twists.

It sounds like you're loading to shorter OAL due to short brass, so be cautious. I use the short 2.08" WW cases and load to 2.55" OAL or close to it. BTW, I don't bother crimping and the long bearing surface boolits don't move when cycled through the action.

[John Taylor]

^ OUCH!! John, do you have any idea what went wrong? A double charge of fast powder maybe? Or just pushed the load too far trying for more velocity?

I hope the shooter is OK.

The barrel came from another shop and the story is that the owner used someone ells handloads. The primer was just starting to flatten out so the pressure was probably 50,000 PSI or more.

[northmn]

I have found a load of 4198 that delivers about 1500 + or - that seems to be working well. I may also wait until I can buy the Starline brass in a quantity I want. I looked on their website and they sell by lots of 250, which is a few more than I need. The lighter laods seem to be more reasonable on both ends. I almost think taht barrel had to be blown by a heavy charge of faster powder. Some powders do not lend themselves to overloading in the caliber.

DP

[doubs43]

The barrel came from another shop and the story is that the owner used someone ells handloads. The primer was just starting to flatten out so the pressure was probably 50,000 PSI or more.

There's a lesson in that story about using other people's reloads; DON'T!

I've posted my own 38-55 load before but if anyone is interested, here it is again... and it's definitely NOT hot at roughly 1400 fps... but it's accurate.

WW case & any standard large rifle primer.
248 grain Lyman boolit sized to .378"
2.5 grains of WW-231 & 34.0 grains of WC-860 (or 870, 8700, 872) on top.
Load is slightly compressed with a light to moderate crimp

The ONLY danger is dropping a double load of WW-231 so every case is double checked before dropping the WC-860.

I use the identical load in 2.125" Starline cases with a 318 grain (from my mold) RCBS 312BPS boolit for my single shot rifle for a velocity of about 1350 fps. It's very accurate.

[Catshooter]

hydraulic,

Thirty grains in my rifle. Your's might, or might not like it. I worked up to slowly 'cause I'm a chicken. I'm sure that with real .38-55 brass and some work I could load quite a bit more, but why? The load does what I want. Zeroed at 100 it's two inches high on the 50 yard chickens, a little less than two inches low on the 150 yard turkeys and drops six inches at the 200 yard rams.

I love it.


Cat

[44 flattop]

I use just one single load that I developed a 1/2 dozen years ago for my then new Marlin Cowboy 38-55. It took quite a bit of shooting and measuring but came up with 32 grains of 3031 behind Lymans 264gr CG bullet. With my alloy, sized and lubed with GC in place it weighs 280.5grs. I get a little in excess of 1800fps with 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards, no sticky extraction at all and negligible case head expansion.

It is a fantastic elk load! :drinks:

44

[Jumptrap]

^ OUCH!! John, do you have any idea what went wrong? A double charge of fast powder maybe? Or just pushed the load too far trying for more velocity?

I hope the shooter is OK.


More than likely some idiot trying to find out how hot he could load his 38-55.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have not yet had the opportinity to pop a buff or griz but cannot imagine why I need more than 1500 fps with a 255 grainer to hunt any other critter walking about with my 38-55´s. I figure if 50 grains of 2F was enough to harvest everything that was ever encountered than surely 35 % FPS over the origonal is going to be just fine. If not I guess I will get out a caliber 45.

[hydraulic]

Catshooter: That looks like what I want for our silhouette shoot. I bought 24 lbs of 2230 from Widners a few years ago, but have been loading 4895 behind the 375449 Lyman bullet. 26 grs, shoots accurately, but drops over a foot at the rams. All my brass is loaded for the shoot in Alliance next weekend, but when I get home with some empty brass I'll give your formula a try. Thanks.

[Whit Spurzon]

I've had excellent results with SR 4759 in my Marlin Cowboy. Velocity is a bit higher than what the book says and I'm still 2 grains below MAX

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/inds012.jpg

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/inds013.jpg

A friend of mine does REAL good with RE 7 and IMR 4198 in his CB
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/bds50yrdrdtargetre7.jpg

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/bds50yrdrdtargetimr4198.jpg

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/3855reloadingdata.jpg

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/lee379250recovered.jpg
A few Lee 250's that I dug out of the sand backstop.

[northmn]

One thing I am going to play with is the use of a softer alloy that is water hardened. I ahve had good luck with hunting loads by hardening the bullet, placing the bases in water and annealing the nose. Might give me better results. Still settling on a load at about 1500 or so.

DP

[Catshooter]

hydraulic,

1700 to 1800 is what most of the guys who were using the .38-55 wanted. There was about seven or eight of us in that small South Dakota club. The recoil is not bad for the 40 rounds you fire, accuracy is excellent with all the power you really need. I shot a nice round inch and a half group at 150 yards while sighting in.

Works for me!


Cat