7,62x54r 27.gr IMR 4227, bullet 185gr

[84mmcarl-gustav]

Hello,am starting to reload Mosin 7,62x54r,i will use 27.gr IMR 4227,bullet .312dia 185gr(Lyman cast bullet hanbook),
my question is do i need a filler,to cover empty space with that kind of powder,thank you

[Larry Gibson]

With a heavier weight bullet at the top end of 4227 loads I would say no. However you are borderline. Only way to know whether there is a "need" with that weight bullet is to test with and without. My procedure would be to just go ahead and develop the load with the dacron filler with that bullet. Won't hurt if it isn't needed and if it is needed then there it is.

Larry Gibson

[badgeredd]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=104707

I'd suggest that you read what Dutch4122 said in post #2 in the above thread. Last summer at our shoot he was handily getting 1" area groups by using his methods. Slower powder =consumable filler IMHO.

Edd

[1Shirt]

Agree with both Dutch and Larry. If it were me, I would probably load 5 or 10 of each, watch primers for pressure signs (ya, know some will say this isn't worth spit), see where your accuracy level is, and go from there.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[swheeler]

I would start developing loads WITH dacron from day one with 4227, just my opinion but it is based on experience with IMR4227. Can you SEE where I'm coming from(pun intended).

[303Guy]

I'm just starting on a similar line AR2205 under a 206gr boolit in the 7.7x56R . OK then, 303 Brit!:mrgreen: I have the same question so I'll be taking the answer from this thread. Filler it is. (I don't have any 'Dacron" on hand so I'm developing loads using fluffed up cotton wool. Not for field use - it can burn and start fires!)

I went to this link;

http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?start=21
I got that from the sticky under CB Loads, Your Favorite Cartridge .

You need to enter 7.62X45 Russian to find the data. They don't list 4227 with a 185gr but they do list 4227 with a 215gr.


7.62x54 Russian

Lyman #311290 215gr

IMR 4227

start load 26gr

max load 30gr

2028 fps

CastLoads L1



I also read Larry's comments on fillers in another sticky there on fillers.

[mroliver77]

I'm just starting on a similar line AR2205 under a 206gr boolit in the 7.7x56R . OK then, 303 Brit!:mrgreen: I have the same question so I'll be taking the answer from this thread. Filler it is. (I don't have any 'Dacron" on hand so I'm developing loads using fluffed up cotton wool. Not for field use - it can burn and start fires!)

I went to this link;

http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?start=21I got that from the sticky under CB Loads, Your Favorite Cartridge .

You need to enter 7.62X45 Russian to find the data. They don't list 4227 with a 185gr but they do list 4227 with a 215gr.





I also read Larry's comments on fillers in another sticky there on fillers.

You need to get you one of these Dacron harvesters! :roll:
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/mroliver77/dacron042.jpg
The "stuff" is in everything! I cannot imagine a home without something filled with Dacron that could be sacrificed in the name of science. Pillows, furniture, stuffed toys, insulated clothes, bedding and many others are stuffed with it. I have found different coarseness of fibers in some things but could tell no difference in the performance.Larry talks about the batting that is in sheets and easy to work with. I have so much salvaged that I will never have cause to buy any of the sheets of batting. ;)

I have a good stash of ball powders because of them being cheaper and some was very cheap surplus. The Dacron is almost a must with these powders and cast.
Jay

[303Guy]

I would start developing loads WITH dacron from day one with 4227, just my opinion but it is based on experience with IMR4227. Can you SEE where I'm coming from(pun intended). Someone did tests with small charges of fast powders and found that pointing the rifle straight down produced higher pressures. Was it Larry?

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have never used fillers/tuft's with 4227/2400 speed powders in the 30-06 sized cases with good luck.A friend recently added filler to a 16g load of 2400 in his scoped 7.62 x 54 and it was definitely improved.So its like the others said try it and see.In crude iron sight military rifles the change may be so small to be unnoticeable.Your accuracy changes may have more to due with seeing the target better some days/lighting.The extra step of adding a filler may not be worth it.i use 27 of H4227 in my 35 Whelen with no filler and 250g bullets and have burned 10#+ with no ill effects.

HMP

[303Guy]

mroliver77, that was a real hoot! I miss my dogs. (Cats too).

Thanks for the assurances, HARRYMPOPE.

Out of the desire to get better results at 50 yds with my badly rusted bore, bush, rain and mud intended Pig Gun, I'm going to stay with fillers/tufts.[smilie=1:

Hey, you never know, I might just have more fun with it that way!:bigsmyl2:

[Three44s]

Hey ..... it's OK for a guy to go to a fabric store ............ you don't have to wait for the dog to unload some for you and besides, there are usually some cute young gals in there ...........

........... and it's SPRING ...... at least in the Northern Hemisphere!


Three 44s

[303Guy]

Just a word of caution with 4227 loads in the 7.62X54 Russian - always use a dacron/polyester filler (or something similar). I have heard of one or two (maybe more) inexplicable 'incidents' when 4227 has been used as a cast boolit charge in such cases. Some of those 'incidents' involved shattered actions. Better safe than sorry! I'm staying with filler.

[enfield]

my standard 30 cal load for 303, 7.62x54, 7.65x53, 7.5x55 all use 18 gr 4227 and no filler and they shoot just fine. It doesnt seem to be position sensative so I expect a larger charge wouldn't require a filler for sure. but then again I just shoot for fun.