Broke a tap!

[Jim]

How do I get this out?

http://fgsp.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/photos-0041-e1303154010270.jpg

http://fgsp.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/photos-0051-e1303154169482.jpg

[redneckdan]

Here is what I wood do. Heat up the whole assembly, then try to cool only the tap as rapidly as possible. Liquid nitrogen would be ideal but do the best you can. Add some penetrating oil, then use the best pair of vise grips you can find to work the tap out. I assume this is not a carbon steel tap. If it was, you could shatter it with a punch. Another option would be a dremel with a diamond burr and lots of time/patience.

[No_1]

With a set of these:
http://www.wescotools.com/p-17511-walton-tools-18001-tap-extractor-set.aspx
You may be able to buy the individual extractor you need but once you have a set of these you will never again fear breaking a tap.

R.

[6bg6ga]

As one that has broken a few taps in my time I have to agree that purchasing the extractor set is the only way to go. You''ll be able to get the broken tap out in no time and even if you have to purchase the set I'm sure its less money than the gun is.

[John Taylor]

Problem with the extractor is it only goes down to 3/16. Most of the taps I break are smaller. Having a mill helps a bunch, Can bore out small taps with carbide bit. These are special ground bits made from old broken carbide endmills which I seem to have a few of. The end is ground like a chisel and will bore through a HSS tap. The fun begins when a carbide end mill breaks off in a hole.

[Jim]

Thanks for your responses, fellas. I guess I'm screwed and glued 'cause I can't afford over $80 for a tap removal tool set.

[jaguarxk120]

Find a tool shop that has a EDM machine, that thing will cut through the hardest steel. I have no idea what they would charge.

[rattletrap1970]

You beat me to that one. Find a shot that has a "hole popper". It's a sinker EDM. They use them for "burning out" hardened pins, taps, etc. as well as putting holes in very hard materials. It isn't horribly expensive (probably about that the tap removal kit costs) but it is almost guaranteed to work.

[fishhawk]

here jim http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=15612/Product/BROKEN_TAP_EXTRACTOR

[Jim]

Steve, you're a life saver, buddy! $12 I can handle.

[docone31]

Jim, what size are you tapping in there?
Seems kinda large.
At any rate, with a Dremel and diamond bit, you can cut the idividual flutes off.
That is what I do when I do that.
Your hole might be a little tight for the tap.
Be careful.
A broken tap can ruin your day.

[cheese1566]

I once heard a woman's hair bobby pin would do the trick. Insert each leg of the bobby pin in between two flutes and twist out.

I have never tried it, sounds flaky, but one never knows! Worth a try anyway...

[GRUMPA]

I'd re-think that a bit, the tap itself looks like 3 fluted tap and that link to brownels looks like it has only 2 prongs which is made for a 2 fluted tap. When I worked in the machining biz we would simply take it to a small shop that did nothing but remove taps for $5. Just my 2 cents worth.

[DCM]

Patience grasshopper patience.
The most likely cause of the tap breaking is a chip has gotten wedged in there somewhere.
When toy get your tap remover very carefully and patiently work the tap back and forth.
If possible use compressed air each time you get it to move to try and clear out any debris from the flutes.
It looks like you MIGHT even have enough sticking out to get a small vice grips GENTLY attached to it.
Taps are extremely brittle and as a last resort you may carefully break the tap out with a small punch, as I said last resort.

No matter what method you use it will require plenty of patience and safety goggles.

I wish you the best of luck.

[docone31]

You do have a lot of tap sticking out.
why not grab it and turn it out?
You could use small channel locks for that possibly.
No matter what, it sucks when that happens. I had it happen in a bubbed 03-A3 reciever once. Done broke right off in the action. I had to burr the tap out by cutting the flutes in the reciever. I got two cut off, and the tap popped out.
Needed lots of oil, and high speed. Use care if you use a burr like that. The bits are hard, and the reciever is soft. Relatively.

[theperfessor]

Put two stiff wires down into the flutes so they stick straight up parallel to each other. Clamp on two plates, one on each side of the wires, to hold the wires in place. I use some scrap 3/4" x 1/4" plates and a small C-clamp. Use the plates as a handle to gently rock the tap out. Instant cheap tap remover, not as good as the real thing but it does work. Follow DCM's advice, and a little lube wouldn't hurt.

Brass is neat stuff to machine but it is ductile enough to flex away from a dull tool and bind up. It is worth making sure that you have a sharp tap to use. I prefer spiral point taps, they clear chips out better and reduce binding.

[W.R.Buchanan]

You have now experienced "Bad Luck" don't make it worse.

First: Try to toonce the tap backwards and back it out. Alternate from side to side so you don't cock the piece in the hole and drive it into the workpiece. If you didn't drive it into the workpiece in the first place it might back right out. Toonce means to "tap at" , not beat on. A little finesse here is whats neded.

If not, try to break some of the pieces off and out with a very fine prick punch. allways toonce in the backwards direction You might get lucky and have the whole tap shatter or at least reduce the size of the offending part left. If you are successful at breaking it down to smaller pieces, you can get lucky and hit it in the center and maybe it will shatter and fall out. YOU DONT NEED TO HIT IT VERY HARD !!!!! just toonce it. The whole idea is to not drive it into the workpiece, you probably did that to some degree when you broke it. You are trying to drive it back out of the workpiece.

DO NOT TRY TO HEAT THE TAP AND TRY TO COOL IT FAST. it is made of High Speed steel and this will do absolutely nothing. And may damage the receiver in the process.

If you get lucky and the tap backs out or shatters you are home free. Failing that find someone who has an EDM machine and will graciously remove said tap for some small amount of money, $25 is reasonable. A gun nut with an EDM machine is even better.

Next time use some kind of enhanced tapping fluid and never run a tap dry. Also two fingers only on the tap handle, and once you see the tap begin to twist, STOP TURNING IT !.

Guns are among the toughest things to tap holes in. There are so many different types of metal and types of hardnesses, it is very difficult to predict what will happen.

I spent 2 full hours drilling and tapping 2 holes in the receiver of my 03A3 on my milling machine. I broke 2 $26 taps and had nothing but DRAMA the whole way thru. I was very lucky to get both of those taps out of the holes they were in, and finally got the holes tapped by using what was left of the taps. Note I said $26 a peice. These were very good taps..

I am a highly skilled Machinsit/ Toolmaker with 30 years exp. I can tell you removing a broken tap for someone else is about a 40% shot for me. Removing a broken tap for myself is usually alot easier as I know exactly why it broke in the first place.

I am also a very lucky guy, and believe me when it comes to broken tap removal luck is way more important than skill !

Randy

[Fredx10sen]

Patience grasshopper patience.
The most likely cause of the tap breaking is a chip has gotten wedged in there somewhere.
When toy get your tap remover very carefully and patiently work the tap back and forth.
If possible use compressed air each time you get it to move to try and clear out any debris from the flutes.
It looks like you MIGHT even have enough sticking out to get a small vice grips GENTLY attached to it.
Taps are extremely brittle and as a last resort you may carefully break the tap out with a small punch, as I said last resort.

No matter what method you use it will require plenty of patience and safety goggles.

I wish you the best of luck.

Exactly, I would also add " tape up surrounding area so as not to add to the problem". A small needle punch slowly tapped gently perpendicular to the tap might loosen it right up. Like has been said "back and forth then air" Had many pool pump motor end bell / face in this condition and had a lot of success this way. Good Luck.

[smokemjoe]

use nitric acid or take it to your dentist

[Longwood]

We would charge $25 to remove a tap unless the owner tried it first, then we would charge $100 to remove the tap and fix the mess he made trying to do it himself.
Leave it alone and take it to a professional.

[jmh54738]

I would recommend a professional, not a week end wonder with a mill-drill in the garage. Mess with it and it will look a lot worse when you are done. Heat won't help, nitric acid will mess up your finish. Not everyone has a bottle of liquid N sitting around unless you are an artifical inseminator and have a tank of semen in your trunk Tried those tap extractors 40 years ago. If the tap is torqued in enough to break it off those little extractor fingers will twist off also. It looks like there isn't to much engagement, so the punches and pliers might work, but slip a few times and you will have a battered mess. Usually when someone brings me a part with a broken bolt in it, they have tried welding a nut on it, drilled it off center, swaged it in with an easy-out, which they broke off. They then try to drill out the easy-out and break the drill off in there too. That's OK, they just turned a $15 job into a $80 job. The professional with a hole popper or a sinker EDM with a brass tube electrode are the best choices.

[Frank46]

Looks like you have enough of the tap sticking out. Here is something I saw in one of the home shop machinest magazines. Screw on a steel nut and have someone tig weld the nut to the tap. Lubricate profusely and gently try to turn it in reverse. Never tried it but since it wasn't mentioned yet. Hope this helps. Frank

[Longwood]

Yep!
Then add on another $75 for the professional after you try that.

[Longwood]

I would recommend a professional, not a week end wonder with a mill-drill in the garage. Mess with it and it will look a lot worse when you are done. Heat won't help, nitric acid will mess up your finish. Not everyone has a bottle of liquid N sitting around unless you are an artifical inseminator and have a tank of semen in your trunk Tried those tap extractors 40 years ago. If the tap is torqued in enough to break it off those little extractor fingers will twist off also. It looks like there isn't to much engagement, so the punches and pliers might work, but slip a few times and you will have a battered mess. Usually when someone brings me a part with a broken bolt in it, they have tried welding a nut on it, drilled it off center, swaged it in with an easy-out, which they broke off. They then try to drill out the easy-out and break the drill off in there too. That's OK, they just turned a $15 job into a $80 job. The professional with a hole popper or a sinker EDM with a brass tube electrode are the best choices.
A little education on how EDM works for those that do not know.
It uses an electric arc and a flow of oil that removes the molten particles. It is for precision work and will do a fantastic job on very tiny parts even in blind holes and will easily cut solid carbide without damaging threads or the sides of precise holes.

[bowfin]

The fun begins when a carbide end mill breaks off in a hole.

Ahh, that brings back old memories:

1. Setup person uses a worn out hex key (allen wrench) on the set screw, which rounds out both the hex key and the hole.

2. Setup person tries to drill out the set screw without taking the toolholder out of the machine, breaks off high speed drill in the set screw.

3. Setup person tries to drill out high speed drill and set screw with carbide drill, again leaving tooholder in machine, breaking off carbide drill

4. Same technique, using a carbide center drill.

5. Setup brings toolholder up to toolroom, says he needs it ASAP

6. I tell him I will work on it ASAP, you go get a new hex key from the tool crib and I will trade you a repaired toolholder for a worn out hex key

Only thing worse is when they would substitute a 5/16" HSS toolbit for a piece of 5/16" key stock so it wouldn't be as likely to shear off...I hated grinding new drive shafts...

[Longwood]

Ahh, that brings back old memories:

1. Setup person uses a worn out hex key (allen wrench) on the set screw, which rounds out both the hex key and the hole.

2. Setup person tries to drill out the set screw without taking the toolholder out of the machine, breaks off high speed drill in the set screw.

3. Setup person tries to drill out high speed drill and set screw with carbide drill, again leaving tooholder in machine, breaking off carbide drill

4. Same technique, using a carbide center drill.

5. Setup brings toolholder up to toolroom, says he needs it ASAP

6. I tell him I will work on it ASAP, you go get a new hex key from the tool crib and I will trade you a repaired toolholder for a worn out hex key

Only thing worse is when they would substitute a 5/16" HSS toolbit for a piece of 5/16" key stock so it wouldn't be as likely to shear off...I hated grinding new drive shafts...
How much do you want to bet the fool works on his guns?

[JMtoolman]

Jim, here is what I used to do to remove broken taps. Get a small pin punch, about a 1/16 will do. With a small hammer place the punch on the inside of a flute and tap gently in the direction to remove the tap. Sometimes you can get it to rock back and forth a bit, and a bit of oil helps. Keep going even if you break off picecs of the tap. Pick themout with tweesers. Dental tools work good too! Sometimes you have to keep breaking off each tooth of the tap as you work around them. You will get it out if you keep working at it. Try not to dig into the threads you have already cut while using the punches and picks. I used to get 4-40 out of a 3/4 inch deep holes, so I know it can be done with patience. John the toolman

[Jim]

Got it out. Many thanks to all that contributed.

[Longwood]

Bravo!
I have a silly question. Why were you tapping a hole at an angle in what appears to be the receiver?

[mpkunz]

Got it out. Many thanks to all that contributed.

Wait a second. You gonna leave us all hanging ? How'd you get it out ?

:o)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ditto MP Kunz !!!

You will tell the story!

Randy

[Papa Jack]

Smokemjoe has the right idea....Nitric acid will work on the hard steel of the tap before it will attack the softer receiver steel... apply a drop on the broken tap and let it work, if you can wiggle the broken piece a little back and forth and it will loosen just enough to get it out. If yer lucky.
Taping Receivers is not real easy at times. I have several brands of High Tech Drilling and Tapping lubes and I use em just for taping receivers....Go slow and take yer time, reversing the tap often to break the chip ! Pull the tap clear out of the hole and clean out any chips and start over.... Works for me.... "PJ"