4831 powder?

[smoked turkey]

I am currently doing quite a bit of load development for an upcoming hunt in which I will be using my 300 Weatherby Mag. I have settled on a 165 gr. J-word bullet. I have burned quite a bit of IMR 4831 so far. I ran out of that particular lot of powder and am now burning H4831SC. Since the big Weatherby case uses quite a bit of powder it doesn't take too long to go through a pound of powder. However, my real joy in shooting comes from shooting cast boolits. So as soon as I get back from this hunt to South Africa, I want to do more with my Garand using cast. I will also be shooting the 45-70, 375 H&H, 35 Whelen. I am faced with needing to purchase more 4831 to finish my development and load up about five boxes of ammo for my son and I to take on our trip as we are both shooting the 300 mag. My question is one of needing an opinion on which powder to buy. I would like to be able to use the same powder I am using with my current development later on down the road for cast boolit shooting. Is there a problem with 4831 as that powder? Or should I buy just a small quantity to finish out my need for the hunt and purchase another powder for my later cast shooting? I realize that this is a wide open question that probably doesn't have a perfect answer, and that is ok. I guess I am just wondering what is that powder, if there is such a thing, that is a good powder with a broad application over a broad number of calibers and one that will work for both cast and jacketed?

[stubert]

I have had good luck with IMR-3031 in the 45-70. I do use 4831sc in my Lott.

[TCLouis]

As I remember it 4831 is specifically mentioned as a powder NOT to use in the Garand.

Cast loads may be a different deal as they will likely generate less gas to the port.

Why not get your Africa loads ready, enjoy the time on the Continent and then come back and play with cast loads.

[ReloaderFred]

Any of the 4831 powders are way too slow for the Garand. It increases port pressure and a bent operating rod will be the result. Stick with powders in the burn rate range of IMR 3031 as the fastest and IMR 4320 as the slowest. This will keep your old Garand from being injured.

Back when I first owned a Garand in 1963, op rods were a dime a dozen. Now they cost more than I paid for that first Garand. I'm down to owning just five Garands at the present time. As long as they're loaded for properly, they will give many, many years of service, as they have already done.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[wiljen]

Buy an adjustable gas plug for your Garand and then tune it so it just barely cycles. This makes brass easier to find and removes the problem of bent op rods when using slow powders. If you do that, you can use all the 4831 you want without risk of hurting the gun.

They are right, with GI gas plugs, 4831 is too slow and with full charges will damage an op-rod. With lesser charges, or an adjustable gas plug that risk goes away. But do remember that some GI Matches do not allow adjustable gas plugs.

[smoked turkey]

Many thanks to all for posting their ideas on 4831. I had also heard that 4831 was too slow a powder for the Garand. However I ran into a thread on the castboolits portion of this site called "cast for a garand". A post there seemed to indicate that some knowledgeable shooters thought that 42 gr. 4831 (not sure which flavor) and 200 gr cast boolits was a very good load for the garand. I do have an adjustable gas plug for mine, although I have not ever installed it as I have mostly used IMR4895 since it was reported to be best for the garand. I do not want to take any chances on damaging the op rod by using the wrong powder. My reason for posting was after reading the above thread, I thought possibly I could but a larger keg of 4831, save some money on future powder purchases, and have a powder that could be used for several centerfires including the garand. I think TCLouis had a good idea of just buying for my hunting trip and when I get back I can play with cast, different powders, etc.

[BruceB]

Here we go again.

For the umpteenth time, CAST- bullet loads in the Garand are DIFFERENT.

H4831 works just fine in the M1 rifle, WITHOUT the adjustable gas plug or any other gimmicks. (So does IMR 4831.)

The cautions about using slow powders are correct....WITH JACKETED BULLETS and full-power loads.

The rifle operates on one thing...the pressure at the gas port. As long as that pressure is within normal limits, the rifle will function well and without risk to any of its parts.

THE HANDLOADER CONTROLS THE PRESSURE.

Many of us have been using slow-burners in cast-bullet loads for years in the Garand The slower powders offer a relatively-gentle start to the bullet, low chamber pressure, and NORMAL pressure at the gas port.

There is a vast amount of info on this site on this subject. Start by looking-up the "BobS Load" for a CORRECT primer on using H4831 in these great rifles. Go to the "Classics and Stickies" forum and on Page 4 there is a good thread about the use of slow-burners and the BobS load.

[spqrzilla]

smoked turkey, you refer in your post to "4831" and it sounds to me, although I may be reading too much into your comments, that at times you are conflating IMR 4831 and H4831 together.

They are similar in burning rate but they are not the exact same powder. You should treat them as different powders and make sure you don't treat them as interchangeable in reloading.

[wiljen]

The 42gr load is just fine even without the adjustable gas plug as it is nowhere near a full load. The place where you get in trouble with 4831 in a Garand is with full power near maximum loads. These are typically with jacketed bullets as cast usually dont shoot their best at these velocity/pressure combinations anyway.

If you wish to use 4831 for reduced/cast loads in the garand there is no reason not to do so. If you want one powder for full power and reduced loads, 4895 makes a much better choice.

The adjustable gas plug does make it easy to find your brass and does give the option of using full-power loads of slow powders as well since you can control gas port pressure with the plug rather than with the powder charge.

[madsenshooter]

I'm with BruceB on the "Here we go again". Well covered, I'd get the 4831 now, before prices go up, as we know they will. Probably the best multi-purpose powder you're going to find for the cartridges you've listed smoked turkey.

[smoked turkey]

BruceB: Yes I know it has come up time and time again on what powders to use in the Garand. I have read, appreciated and printed off your info so I can have it as a ready reference. I know you are a very patient man because you have answered that question umpteen times (literally). I want you to know I really do appreciate the knowledge you have passed along to folks such as myself who are mentally challenged in this area.
spqrzilla: I did notice that the H and IMR powders are listed with different though similar burn rates. In my Sierra manual the powder charges did happen to fall pretty close to the same and using the same powder charge didn't create any adverse issues for me. 76.7 gr. with 165 gr. Thank you for pointing this out to me as it could have been a safety issue.

I am looking for that "multi-purpose" powder and it does seem that IMR4831 seems to be a good one. Many thanks to all for your comments. I always know that I can get reliable & honest feedback on a question like this.

[sqlbullet]

42 grains of H4831 with a little filler and a 200 gr bullet produces the same accuracy from both my Garands as Greek surplus ammo. BruceB has set the record straight on Garands, slow powder and heavy cast bullets, so I won't beat the horse anymore.

In my Remington 700 chambered for 300 Win Mag, 57 grains with the same filler and bullet as above is capable of 1" groups at 100 yards.

[zomby woof]

42 grains of H4831 with a little filler and a 200 gr bullet produces the same accuracy from both my Garands as Greek surplus ammo. BruceB has set the record straight on Garands, slow powder and heavy cast bullets, so I won't beat the horse anymore.

+1 Me too