30-30

[northmn]

Snowed again so I am grounded a bit. Got about 5 inches of the ##@@@ white stuff. Just commenting on the old 30-30. I have one in a 24 inch barrel and use it quite a bit. As a cartridge I think it is "adequate" for my uses, not fantastic or great but just adequate. I have shot a lot of deer with a 270, and a variety of other calibers inlcuding Milsurps like the old 303 British my father bought me. They killed deer handily but so does the 30-30. My daughter shot her first 5 deer with one and I have used one with jacketed bullets as well as cast. Personally I feel the 300 Savage is about as good a deer rifle as one can get, or a 30-40 Krag for cast. I also have a 38-55 I will hunt with or a 58 muzzle loader.
The 30-30 has a few advantages that appeal to me. It will generally shoot full loads with a cast bullet accurately. Mine and a couple of Winchesters I tried shoots about any load of cast I want. It can be accurately loaded to handle light loads for plinking and small game or my 190 grain loads for deer. I tried different powders and laods and none were really bad. Never tried Marlins with micro groove but those that have them say that if using oversized bullets they shoot also.
The 94's or 336's are just plain handy rifles that are pleasant to carry and have been around a while.

DP

[Char-Gar]

The 30-30 levergun has been doing the job for well over a century in millions of Winchester and Marlin rifles. It's strengths and supposed faults have been observed and discussed ad nausem by generations of hunters and shooters.

I don't worry about such terms as "adequate" or "outstanding" when applied to rifles and cartridges. IMHO those terms are better used to describe shooters and hunters. In the hands of a man who knows how to shoot and hunt, the 30-30 levergun will "get er done" every time. Dead is dead and there is no such things as "deader".

[Jeff H]

I don't currently have a 30-30 but keep meaning to get another one.

For anyone who would scoff at its ballistics - "30-30 - no aplogies necessary":D

[northmn]

Using the term adequate to describe the hunter or shooter may be the better term. Some of the depression and predepression era people that used to use these rifles considered a box of ammo worth about 18-20 deer. They also shot black bear and maybe a moose once in awhile. They would often only go out with a couple of cartridges in their rifles. They liked lever guns but would have been about as well off with a "Handi-rifle". I do not fill the tubes of my Marlins because a deer hunter that grew up using a 94 kind of hinted that the sign of a green horn was a full magazine and smashed bullet noses because of it. I use 2-3 in the magazine and one in the chamber.

DP

[btroj]

The 30-30 will live on forever. They just work. Easy on the shooter, deadly on deer.
What is not to like?

[Char-Gar]

It has been years since I hunted deer, but back then, I would buy or load 20 rounds of ammo. Ten rounds would be used to check the sights and the other ten for deer season. We had a two or three deer limit and I never used more than four rounds per year to fill my tags. When I went out for the day, I only had the rounds in the rifle's magazine, usually 4 rounds. I never carried spare ammo. I did have a handgun, usually a 1911 or some kind in case I needed to signal somebody.

It is not that I am such a great shot, nor could hunt like an Indian guide. I just never took a shot until I knew I could not miss with one surgically placed shot. This was what I was taught to do, by my mentors in the sport. You held your fire until you were dead certain of taking the animal with one clean shot.

In all the years I took several score of Texas Whitetail and mule deer and never lost an animal. Most of the deer were taken with a 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 243 Winchester and several with the 45-70. I did shoot thousands of rounds a year at targets.

[gnoahhh]

If I had to pick just one caliber to grow old with it would be the .30/30, provided I had a variety of rifles to shoot it in. Specific use guns for target, hunting, plinking, what have you, I wouldn't care if they were all .30/30s. Given enough different molds and powders I truly could spend the next 20 or 30 years conducting exhaustive experiments with just that one caliber, and hunt anything I'm likely to hunt too.

[Char-Gar]

These days I have a good ole Winchester 94 (1950 vintage) 30-30 carbine and a 1960 vintage Marlin "Texan" carbine. There is a Savage 340 bolt also in 30-30. The cream of the crop is a Browning single shot "Traditional Hunter" in 30-30. That last one is a true MOA rifle with cast bullets. All day, every day.

[northmn]

I bought a 357 Rossi and a 32-20 Marlin, but admit I could have gotten by cheaper by just buying another 30-30 and loading it down. I had a load for the Lee 150FP that shot like a demon using 4759 at about 1700fps. Basically a 357 load. I also had a load using the Lee 120 grain that shot well. I admit the 32-20 is a fun gun but another 30-30 would have been less expensive. Mostly a matter of not changing sights.

DP

[btroj]

I prefer my 32-20 to my 30-30. The 30-30 case is tougher to load to 1000 fps with a 120 gr cast bullet. Chance of double charge, might need filler, etc makes it a bigger pain. The 32-20 thrives on loads like that. Each has a place.
A 30-30 is also one of the easiest to load cast for. So many good bullets, east to hit top end velocity with accuracy, good terminal ballistics. What is not to like?

[Three44s]

Partial quote by Charger:


"I just never took a shot until I knew I could not miss with one surgically placed shot. "

This .......... is as good as it gets!


Three 44s

[northmn]

I prefer my 32-20 to the laoded down 30-30 but the ability is still there. Also when one has two loads you have a chance to somehow manage to have the wrong load in the wrong rifle at the wrong time. 32-20's are also scarce and expensive such that I could go to one auction and pick up a lever 30-30 for about half the price. Also there is the issue of buying brass and dies. I really enjoy my 32-20 but am saying that I could have gotten a 30-30 and loaded it down much cheaper. But I also feel that I am getting to an age where if I do not enjoy my income and play with different things I likely never will. I really have not come across many deals on the small bores. A 25-20 or 32-20 generally goes for a rather high price when one does see them. 30-30's are also regional. if I go to an auction service further south they sell about $100 cheaper than around my town. A used 30-30 in my area sells for a little less than a new Marlin. With Winchesters you start getting into a collector issue. A vintage longer barrel Winchester with an original barrel is very dear as are some of the commenoratives. I am wandering.

DP

[Larry Gibson]

Quite frankly I think the 30-30, especially with a 24" barrel with a 12" twist is the perfect .30 cal cast bullet hunting cartridge rifle. I really prefer the M94/M64s for this. A 150 - 190 gr cast bullet at 2000 - 2200 fps for deer/elk or bear hunting is every bit the equal of the same bullets from any other cartridges. With a 105 - 120 gr GC'd FN or SWC at 1400 - 1600 fps it is the equal of any 32-20 hunting load, particularly if said bullets are cast soft and HP'd. And when loaded with a 90 gr soft cast SWC at 900 fps it out performs the .22LR as a plinking and small game cartridge.

Very hard to criticise the 30-30, even in a Marlin:lol:, for hunting deer, pigs, black bear and even elk when using cast bullets. Of course one must always know the real limitations of what one is using. The 30-30 has been doing a fine job for over 100 years and will continue doing the same job in the future.

:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[Wrbjr]

You people are so brainwashed. 30.30 this and .30.30 that.

I decided to see for myself.

I went shopping for a used .30.30
and found that I have partaken of the cool-aid as well.

Are you happy now? What in the world am I going to tell my wife? Yet another rifle to hide from her in the safe. Even had it scoped to resemble a .243 that is already in there hoping she will not realize it's an additional rifle. She pays little attention to details so I might be safe for awhile. Later I can say its always been there dear.

Now to order some dies and molds.

Bwahaha!

[Baja_Traveler]

I use a 1968 Buffalo Bill Commemorative for Lever Action Silhouette. It is by far my favorite rifle, and the 30-30 round is very versatile and easily loaded down for plinking.
My Chicken load is a 115 grain Lyman 311008 (a 32-20 bullet sized .309) over 8.2 grains Universal Clays or Unique - no filler needed. It is a solid performer with zero recoil - but the pigs go over rather slowly, so I dont use it past 50 yards.
The 170gr 311041 takes care of everything else, and is a great hunting bullet besides.
As mentioned in another thread - I dont use loading blocks, the primed case is charged and the bullet seated before leaving my hand, so chance of a double charge is near zero...

[northmn]

I ahve to agree with Larry on the 24 inch barrel as that is what my Marlin CB has. It does seem to give a little extra, whether game would know it???. I have been playing with it a little bit and chronographed a load using a 190 grain cast bullet at 2000 fps more or less. I put a scope on this rifle as the eyes are not what they used to be and I like to have one for early morning and late evening. I have a Marlin CB in 38-55 I use with the Williams receiver sight. As I have shot deer with the 38-55 I really do not see that it does much more than the 30-30, it sure isn't any worse, both kill the deer, but it is fun. I just worked up a load for the 250 grain Lee bullet that hits 1800, but I may back it off a little. Really does not kick all that much.

DP

[pdawg_shooter]

You people should know by now that the 30-30 wont kill a deer! All the gun writers say so. To listen to them it is marginal for jack rabbits.

[NickSS]

I started out believing all the gun rags that told me that the 30-30 was a has been cartridge that was barely adequate for deer. So I never owned one until I had been shooting and hunting for almost 10 years. Then on a moose hunt up in Alaska I ran into and old Native American guy who was also hunting Moose with a really old battered 30-30 winchester that looked like it was used as a canno paddle when not as a rifle. I could not argue that it was an inadequate cartridge as the old guy was cleaning out and quartering a bull moose that probably went 1200 pounds on the hoof. He told me that he had used the same rifle for over 50 years and he has killed everything in Alaska including large Bear. Wales and Walruss with it and usually with one shot. So the next year when looking for a ranny day deer rifle for hunting in western Washington I bought my first 30-30 Marlin 336 for $114. I still have it and it still kills deer and elk when I am hunting in heavy cover in the rain. The 30-30 also works well with a charge of 8 gr of Unique and a 115 gr Lyman 31108 bullet for pest control, small game and plinking.

[9.3X62AL]

There has ALWAYS been at least one 30-30 WCF in my gun cabinet or safe. I took my first deer with a Win 94 x 30-30 at age 13, and every deer I've taken since then could have been grassed with one. 3 of them were.

There isn't a better cast boolit rifle caliber in existence. 1-12" twist, usually good dimensions, and easy to load. It was my first cast boolit rifle caliber, and it remains a favorite.

Oh, yeah--the gunhacks buried it long ago. Idjits.

[jmsj]

Like many out west, I have migrated to faster flatter shooting long range rifles.
But lately (due to some questions from my 11 yr old daughter), I have been looking at a few Winchester 94's that have been sitting long unused in the gun cabinet. Thanks to NHlever and others I am planning on loading 311008 for small game loads and my wife has bought me a Ranch Dog 311-165 mold for my upcoming birthday.
I have been fighting some illness lately and progress has been slow but I have started building a sizing die and have cast about 300 of the 311008's. I can't wait to get started loading some of those.
I'll have to wait till next month to start casting up some of the Ranch Dogs
jmsj

[pls1911]

30-30??
Too many.
'93s '94s, 36's, 336's...
20", 24, 26" barrels...
Vintage peeps, modern receiver sights..
Cast boolits in 150, 160, 165, and 173 grains
A keg or two of RL-7...
With a pile of pigs or venison.
What's not to like??

Pls1911

[rintinglen]

My first deer rifle was a K-mart 30-30 winchester purchased in 1972. I quickly soured on it and sold it off, because it was such an inadequate round. Jack said so, Elmer said so, heck, all them experts said so. They were full of baloney. If I had a dollar for every deer done in with a 30 WCF, I could darn near afford all the guns I want...almost all, anyway.

[Larry Gibson]

northmn

"I have to agree with Larry on the 24 inch barrel as that is what my Marlin CB has. It does seem to give a little extra, whether game would know it???. "

No, game doesn't know the difference but my old eyes do:D, especially with aperture sights. I surely have killed enough deer with M94 Carbines using the 311041HP. That was back in the day when my eyes allowed me too see the front sight and a deer at the same time. With the longer 24" barrels I can still use aperture sights:-) I've had a Burris 1.5X scout scope on my carbine (Burris used to make a very good scout mount for the M94-wish they still did but I've got one) and am going to put it back on the old M94 Carbine (got it for my 14th birthday) so I can use it again:cool:

Another benifit of the longer 24" barrels is the increased performance you can get from the 30-30 using LeveRevolution powder. I a couple other threads I've told how much this increases performance of the old 30-30 round in lever actions with 24" barrels. I'm going to work on loads with the 311041 and expect to push theat bullet to the limits of the 12" twist in the M94AE and stay within or below SAAMI psi's for the 30-30. Many who only use the 30-30 in shorter barreled carbines for close range hunting do no see any benifit for that. I have to agree that there probably isn't any real need or benifity. However, where i hunt there is a chance of a longer shot across open spaces on deer and antelope out to 300 yards. The increased performance (velocity and accuracy) then has it's benifits if one wants ot use the 30-30 in a lever action. :guntootsmiley:

Larry Gibson

[northmn]

A friend of mine from NW MN claimed that at one time a gunsmith converted quite a few 94's to 24 inch barrels as the locals liked them. You get into a compromise between handy and the ability to shoot the things. Under field conditions with my peep sights, I really like the 24" barrel. A lot of us may not realize or forget that the original patterns included a lot of 26" barrels. They also hold very well. I do a bit of brush busting and do not see any handicap with a longer barrel.

DP

[pls1911]

Some decent deas can still be found on 1936-1955 "A" models with 24" barrels.
Never saw one which wasn't a fine shooter.

[ipopum]

I am in the process of rebuilding a Savage 99. It was a 303 but with brass not very available I decided to chamber for 30-30 Win. should have it up and running in a week.