465gr. - 45/70 loads ???

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Afternoon folks,

I have a 465gr LFN mold on order, the sizing/lubing dies and another lube will soon be here, so it is time to gather load data.

The rifle, RUGER #1, so I am not seeking Trapdoor level load info.

I AM wanting good to great groups, so velocity is not the be all end all, However, I will not shy away from higher velocity info providing they have proven to give you good groups.

Don't worry, be'in an old Coot and long time reloader, I WILL check the books before loading anything!

I have H & IMR 4198, 3031, RL #7, H322, Varget, 4895 as well as some others usable in the 45/70 on hand.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot :CastBoolitsisbest:

[btroj]

Never went quite that heavy but I had really good luck with 4895 and Varget with the 425 RD bullet. I think, and that is heavy on the think, that I was around 47 gr of either powder.
Accuracy was good, velocity was over 1600. I would hunt anything on this continent with that load.
I think the Varget and 4895 will do good work for you. I don't think you can get near enough in the case to go over pressure for a No 1.

[Kraschenbirn]

Not quite the same boolit weight but I've got an old Ohaus RNFP that casts 445 gr from 50/50 Pb and WWs. 29.0 gr IMR4198 produces 1340 fps from my Pedersoli RB (30" bbl) with single-digit SDs and 2"-2 1/2" 100-yd groups. Btw: Ken Water's "Pet Loads" lists some CB loads for 4895 and 3031, too.

Bill

[Rico1950]

Lyman 457483GC, I believe it was around 485grs. ready to go. That group was @ 50 yds. Ruger #1 stainless.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_24574dac922924cd2.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=546)

[Ratliff]

500g FN w/w with 25g of A 2400 will push it out of a 22 inch H & R Handy at 1449 fps and give you 2402 fp of energy at a Crony set up at 12 feet.. The 325g store bought FTX with 25g's of 2400 will give you 1950 fps from the same gun and 2531 fp at 12 foot,,, but if you are shooting some distance, the 500g will have a lot more knock down at the longer range,,, just a little slower getting there.
They both have a tight groupe at one hundred yards, will bring down anything breathing.

I have never felt my gun kick when shooting at a big buck..

[bearcove]

Just use Ruger #1 data for a heavier boolit 485 500...

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bearcove,

I did just that a couple nights ago.

Sat down with some of my books and listed out the info for those heavier boolits.

Rec'd my .460 Lee type - push through - sizing die today along with the .461 die for the sizer/luber.

WOW, Buckshot was really quick filling that order!

Have an order in for some BAC, White Label Lube, and rec'd word late last week that the new mold will probably be in process this week.

Thanks to all you other folk who have been sharing!

Looks like at present, that it shouldn't be more then 2 - 3 weeks and I'll be sitting down to build some test loads.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[onesonek]

"The rifle, RUGER #1, so I am not seeking Trapdoor level load info."

It sounds like you're looking for some speed.

Years ago I had a #1 45-70, although I was shooting J's
I had my best loads in all weights using R-7, with H322 running a close second. Although I been having very good success with Benchmark in my current 45-70 with cast from 350- to 470 weights.
With cast and all else being equal, they will generate less pressure as I understand it than J's.
You will likely run out of room using anything slower than H4895, if you are looking for top velocity with cast,,,just a swag.
Beyond that, each rifle has it's own set of rules. And if it were me I would start with 42 gr.s R-7 and work up. I was running 400 gr. J's with 52 gr.s R-7 at 2000 fps. But I had a slightly longer throat than most #1's.
Although cast sometimes seem to like a little slower start I hear when being pushed hard, so 4895 might be good as well if not better when looking for top velocity and accuracy. When reaching upper levels in the #1, brass life will be a concern with the faster powders you listed.

[BABore]

Here are a few loads that a friend worked up for his #1 with the BRP 462-465 GC.

W-W case
210M primer
H322 43.0grs
tackdriver

W-W case
210M
H335 46.5grs
ragged hole.

W-W case
210M
RL7 39.0grs
tackdriver and very mild recoil

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks folks!!

Especially, thank you Bruce for the info directly related to your 465gr. boolit.

I have sat down, gone through a number of books and written down the powders that I have on hand and the load ranges published.

I will compair that info to what I am seeing on this thread, and develope a game plan.

The mild to wild possibilities with the #1 kind of leave me hanging, even with years of center fire loading experience behind me.

ALWAYS!!!!!! before the 45/70 days which began about a year ago, load ranges for a given cartridge/powder/"J" boolit, were almost always within a 4 - 5 gr. range, starting to max.

As most or all of you are aware, that is not so with the listed/published data if you shoot a #1.

Velocities, as I have tried to state, are not as important as groups size.

However, within reason I would like to take advantage of something above Trapdoor velocities if possible.

The "Net" says my new mold could be here Friday :-) Looking forward to it's arrivial and probably casting the first of next week. [smilie=w:

Thanks! and Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[BABore]

You can do some searching on both

http://levergunlovers.com/index.php

and

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php

for mention of the Cast Performance Bullet 460g rain GC (CPB 460 GC). My design has almost identical driving bands as this one. The CPB design is an excellent shooter. Its faults are the goofy radiused band above the crimp groove and nose profile. Most were shooting this one in Marlin leverguns. The ogive radius and meplat didn't allow it to feed when seated to the half-hearted crimp groove. You had to crimp over the radiused top band to cycle it. I fixed that with a ogive radius that I knew would work while still maintaining the original meplat diameter. Most of the data you'll find on the mentioned sites is Marlin stuff. There will be some #1 data mixed in. My buddy that I pilfered data from goes by Reflex264 on these forums. He's a real serious reloader and has an Garrett-type ammo business all set up to go if his day job ever lets him catch a breath. He has had Hodgdon labs test most of his loads. As my design allows you to seat the boolit a bit farther out of the case, and CPB 460 data should be perfectly fine. Be very aware of the case brand used for any hot load as there is a 3-5 grain capacity difference between Remington and Winchester cases. Remmy's hold the least and Winny's the most. Star Line is in the middle. Anybodies nickel plated cases should be avoided. They jack up pressure considerably because of their hardness. Here's an excerp from an old Handloader issue IIRC;

As measured by Brian Pierce!!!

1-.450 Marlin Brass/73.5 grains of water(2.7 grains less than Remington 45-70 Brass!!!)
2-.45-70 Remington Brass/76.2 grains of water(1.3 grains less than Starline Brass)
3-.45-70 Starline Brass/77.5 grains of water(2.8 grains less than Winchester Brass)
4-.45-70 Winchester Brass/80.3 grains of water.(4.1 grains "More" than Remington Brass.)

Were I you, I would start my load search with H322 or Benchmark. They are more or less identical powders and I'm partial to H322. IMR 3031 is also excellent and has almost identical charge weights as H322/BM. It's biggest difference seems to be in bbl harmonics. It is just different enough from H322/BM that it can shine where they don't. IMR 8208 is just slightly slower than H322 in the 45-70 and does show alot of promise for me. H335 would normally be though of as slow for this cartridge and boolit weight, but it just does something special with this boolit. Worth the extra effort. Reloder 7 will get you the highest velocity with the least pressure of all of the common, high end 45-70 powders. That said, I've never gotten the fine accuracy with it unless I'm shooting 350 grain or less boolits. CCI 200's are my normal, everyday primer and work well. Federal 210M match primers will most always give you an accuracy edge and well worth the cost if needed. You will have awesome neck tension with a boolit this long. I use a RCBS Cowboy expander to get away from the "458 jacketed bullet" universal size. The best drimp for me is either the Redding Profile crimp die or a Lee FCD/RCBS roll combination. Everbody sings praises of the Lee FCD. It does work well, but at the price of butchering up the case mouth. I prefer to use the FCD to just straighten out the flare and slightly begin to crimp. I then finish it off with the RCBS roll crimp.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Again, THANKS!

My powder search is now down to the 322 and 3031, both of which are on hand.

Rotten weather give lots of time to think and look!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Mold just arrived.

LOOKS GREAT!!

Thanks Bruce!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'coot