Loading Cast For a Garand?

[340six]

have plans of getting a 180 sp RCBS mould and loading 30-06 for a Garand.
I think M2 Ball is 165 and heavier bullets past 180 for them is not good.
Most 150+grain in that neighbourhood are made for a 30-30 and may be too flat pointed
http://www.opticsplanet.net/rcbs-bul...541-82020.html
I have loads in the RCBS cast bullet book but wondered what thoughts were for any loads for a Garand.
They do make special factory ammo{high dollar} as well as surplus military bvut sooner or later I would reload.
Regular 30-06 ammo is to hot so wanted to post and ask what others have done for reloads in a Garand.
If the above mentioned 180sp is not so good please feel free to put an opinion
Thanks

[USSR]

I think M2 Ball is 165 and heavier bullets past 180 for them is not good.

M2 Ball is 152gr, M2 AP Ball is about 165gr, and M72 Match is about 174gr. The problem is not the weight, but the port pressure generated when using full power, heavy bullet loads in the Garand. You will not be using full power loads (2700fps), so the port pressure will be less using cast bullets as long as you use a proper powder.

Don

[RU shooter]

Take a look over in the military and milsurp rifle section there is lots of good loads for garands listed by various members and with very good results. The loads I'm using now are the RCBS 165 and the lee 185 with 33 grs of 4895 and a little tuft of dacron ,Still refining things but that load functions the action well and shoots just as well as the last batch of LC ball I shot.

[frkelly74]

My Garand likes the Lee 312 155 / 160 pointed type gas check boolit sized at 311. the 155 is standard lube groove and the 160 is micro band. I tumble lubed both and can not tell the difference.

[hydraulic]

Bob S originated the best load for cast bullets in the M1; 42 grs. of 4831 under a 200 gr. cast gas checked bullet. You will now hear all sorts of protests about the folly of using slow powders and heavy bullets in a gas operated rifle, and they are correct when speaking of jacketed bullets. However, cast bullets are a different story. The port pressures are considerably less, and perfectly safe. This load will operate the action safely and reliably and will shoot with good accuracy.

[zomby woof]

41.5 IMR 4831 with 311299

In process of testing 311284

[340six]

Any thoughts on the pointed 311334 lyman think it is 193 and may be 200 with some alloys like WW gas checked looks like a single lube grove though? Guy selling one says he has one that Casts a nominal .311 and 190 grains
That was one question... some 30 cal look like they have a whole bunch of lube grooves

[sqlbullet]

Bob S originated the best load for cast bullets in the M1; 42 grs. of 4831 under a 200 gr. cast gas checked bullet. You will now hear all sorts of protests about the folly of using slow powders and heavy bullets in a gas operated rifle, and they are correct when speaking of jacketed bullets. However, cast bullets are a different story. The port pressures are considerably less, and perfectly safe. This load will operate the action safely and reliably and will shoot with good accuracy.

That BobS load is referenced here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=312730&postcount=15).

BobS also seemed to endorse newer powders. From that thread:


Varget wasn't around when I started using "my" load (circa 1968).

I use 32 grains of Varget under .75 grains of poly fill with a 200 grain Lee gas checked bullet. Another user at the CMP forum, El Greco, likes 36 grains of Varget with a 311299.

If you use BobS load of 4831, ditch the toilet paper in favor of poly fill. It is more consistent.. The toilet paper does produce a nice spray of confetti that my kids like though.

[AaronJ]

I just started loading cast for my garand last week. I am using the NOE 311365 mold and 35 gr of IMR 4064. Accuracy was as good as my jacketed loads but the action short stroked a few times. I think if I increase charge weight in 1 grain incriments I can find the sweet spot.

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I just started loading cast for my garand last week. I am using the NOE 311365 mold and 35 gr of IMR 4064. Accuracy was as good as my jacketed loads but the action short stroked a few times. I think if I increase charge weight in 1 grain incriments I can find the sweet spot.

That's interesting, I am experimenting with the same load and boolit but I have yet to reach the bottom end for my garand. I started with 36 gr or 4064 and have worked my way all the way down to 32.5 and it is still cycling and ejecting clips properly. I will try another group of stepped down loads to see if I can find the point of no eject.

[340six]

Take a look over in the military and milsurp rifle section there is lots of good loads for garands listed by various members and with very good results. The loads I'm using now are the RCBS 165 and the lee 185 with 33 grs of 4895 and a little tuft of dacron ,Still refining things but that load functions the action well and shoots just as well as the last batch of LC ball I shot.

I went and looked over there and looks like the weight of the 311365 I just got would be close.
And 4895 is still sold what does the poly fill / dacron do as a filler? Is it really needed? And where would you get some at?
That sounds like a simple tested load and I like simple

[mpmarty]

fill / dacron do as a filler? Is it really needed? And where would you get some at?
Wal Mart pillow stuffing

[Baja_Traveler]

I'm using the 200 gr. 311299 over 35 gr 4895 (no filler) with excellent results.

When that runs out I'll try the Varget, since that is what I have the most of.

[340six]

Sorry but is it IMR 4895 or H-4895

[W.R.Buchanan]

Has anyone had any problems with the gas port getting plugged with lead desbris on their Garand?

I had avoided using cast in my Garand because of stories I had heard, which sounded plausable.

Obviously this is bunk or you guys wouldn't be doing it.

Also has anyone got an adjustable plug for their gas system? I just installed one but haven't been able to test/adjust it yet. I figured it would help when I went to 168/175gr loads.

Also has anyone Chronoed their cast loads? I am particularly interested in what speed the 35gr/ 4895 under 200gr 311299 load is generating?

Randy

[Baja_Traveler]

Sorry, H-4895 - but both are nearly interchangeable. They are nearly right next to each other on the burn rate chart.

I shoot my Garand in the Military rifle silhouette match here once a month, and last month after almost 1000 rounds of nothing but cleaning the barrel I disassembled it for a thorough cleaning. Close inspection showed carbon buildup in all the usual places, and no sign of lead anywhere. The gas port was completely clear also.

I dont use the adjustable plug, and if you are reloading specifically for the rifle I don't think you need it.

I haven't chrono'ed my load, but it is enough to function both the action, and knock down the 70 pound steel Ram targets at 200 yards reliably. That's all I want out of this rifle - any more is just a waste of powder IMHO...

[W.R.Buchanan]

Baja: thanks for the info, I will be getting this going soon. WE do the short range silhoutte up here in Ojai also. I normally shoot my leverguns. Using the Garand would definately attract attention, and even if it doesn't cycle the action (which would be preferrable, as I wouldn't have to chase the cases) I still want to be able to shoot Boolits.

The reason I asked about the velocity is that I wonder if 25 gr of 5744 would cycle the action. my vel should be 1850-1900fps.

Most people don't know that 5744 was originally called 4475 and was created as a powder for the .223 Govt round. It was eliminated from the running and the rights sold off to some crazy
Balkin dude who renamed it 5744 and started selling it here in the US. Finally Accurate picked it and now Xtreme powders has it. It go this tidbit from Venturino at the SHOT Show this year.

Randy

[AnthonyB]

Randy;
I haven't chronoed it yet but think I'm settling on 35 grains of IM4831 over any 165-180 grain bullet. So far it functions perfectly; I'm getting 1.75 inch 8 shot groups at fifty yards and think I'm the limiting factor. RCBS 30-180 SIL gifted to me by Sundog worked very well last weekend; that may be my bullet and load for the zombie apocalypse.
Tony

[shotman]

the 5744 works good I use a 311413 gc thats about 175gr 30 gr will drop brass about 4ft at 2 Oclock. I do use mag primers and NO filler I loaded one 20rn box with reg primers and got brass from just dropping to about 3ft groups were ok but could tell they were not uniform . It works great in the 338-06 but boolit weight is 250 too

[340six]

So would the use of 35 gr 4895 (no filler) with the 198-200 grain pointed 311365 bullet work and be simple and straight to the point so to say? Bullets with WW lead and gas checks can add some lino if needed.
What would the Over all Length need to be? I have a Lyman Case Gauge on the way that you drop a whole case maybe a whole loaded round in to check them. I am not sure but know that is how the pistol ones work.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Shotman: Thanks I'll try it.

Randy

[Elkins45]

That BobS load is referenced here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=312730&postcount=15).

BobS also seemed to endorse newer powders. From that thread:



I use 32 grains of Varget under .75 grains of poly fill with a 200 grain Lee gas checked bullet. Another user at the CMP forum, El Greco, likes 36 grains of Varget with a 311299.

If you use BobS load of 4831, ditch the toilet paper in favor of poly fill. It is more consistent.. The toilet paper does produce a nice spray of confetti that my kids like though.

Do you really need the filler at all? I shoot light cast in 308 with 10 grains of pistol powder and I just make sure to tilt the rifle before firing so the charge is near the primer. Is the filler just for consistency or does it have some function with regard to safety??

[30CAL-TEXAN]

340six,

The OAL will depend much more on your particular rifle. If you want to seat it out as far as possible you will have to experiment and find out exactly where it hits the lands.

I have pretty much settled on seating my 311365 loads for the garand all the way to the crimp groove just so the boolit is not as banged up from autoloading.

[Baja_Traveler]

I load to an OAL of 3.20" on mine. They feed fine, and it gets the boolit out there not quite touching the lands.