Now what? (311241 in 7.62X54R)

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

If you have seen my other threads in various sections of the forum, I have a Lyman/Ideal SC mold marked U311241. It casts a plain base, .313" boolit of 159.5grs from my alloy, 50/50 wheelweights and range lead. In theory this should be a decent boolit for my M44 7.62X54R carbine, which I have slugged at .312".

Tried this boolit today. Partial sized cases, WLR primers, 22.0/IMR-4198, base of boolit even with base of case neck. Boolits were unsized and pan lubed with a homemade lube. 50/50 parafin wax & vaseline, with enough grated Ivory soap in it to make it mix and stay together.

Chronograph velocity averaged 1599 f.p.s., SD was 28.0. Which I thought was decent.

Problem is groups, or should I say "patterns". 50 yards off sandbags, 4 out of 5 shots went into 10-12" and one round MISSED THE TARGET BOX!!!

This gun will normally shoot under 1 3/4" at 50 yards with any Jword bullet.

So my question is, now what? What do I try/change/tweak? My bore is a little frosty, so I don't expect Jword accuracy, but is 3-5" to much to ask?

Guesses? Is it powder? Lube? Or??

Thanks for all input.

SSB

[45 2.1]

I would slow it down and try some Unique in it.

[JeffinNZ]

Don't worry about the 'frosty' bore. I had a .32-20 Mod 92 the bore of which looked like a dry river bed but it shot cast like a house on fire. Either way you can't control that.

You don't mention a gas check. Are you using one? If so are they on square.

As said already, back off a shade. I would go 17-20 grains.

Have you scrubbed all the jacketed fouling from the bore? Cast do not like J fouling.

Are your bullets perfect? IE: all weight consistant, no flaws, blemishes?

Have you champhered the case mouth or used a 'M' die to flare it to save shaving the bullets on seating?

Just keep playing and RECORD your progress.

[357maximum]

I would nix the parraffin in that high a concentration, beeswax works much better...parraffin shows a real low "velocity ceiling" in the accuracy dept...compared to beeswax...

[jh45gun]

As said slow it down that is a bit fast for a plain based bullet.

[Maineboy]

I've shot this boolit it just about all of my 30 caliber rifles, including my 3 Mosins, with light loads of Unique, Red Dot and 2400and it's been a pretty good, but never a great performer. Usually it shoots 4"-5" at 100 yards. I strongly agree with those posters recommending lower velocities. The only chronographed load I have was in my Krag, 13.6 grains of 2400 5 rounds, avg. velocity 1314 fps, SD 54.66. 2 1/2" group at 100 yards. On the same day, in the same gun, 10 grains of Unique did 1&1/2" at 50 yards but I didn't chrono that load. This is the best the 311241 has done for me, but to tell the truth, those were the only 10 rounds I've loaded for my Krag with that boolit, so I don't know if I can duplicate those groups again. These boolits were tumble lubed with Lee liquid alox. I guess I'll have to cast up a bunch more and give it a try.

[singleshotbuff]

JeffinNZ,

This is a plain base boolit. They are all perfect and weight sorted to +/- .2gr.

As recommended, I'll try to slow this boolit down. Can anyone suggest a load with Unique, Red Dot or Blue Dot?

Thanks.

SSB

[JeffinNZ]

Sorry man; didn't read the post fully.

How about a LDPE wad under the bullet to protect the base?

[singleshotbuff]

Jeff,

Hadn't thought of that, although dacron wadding has crossed my mind. I think I'll try it tomorrow with Unique and some type of wad.

BTW isn't LDPE plastic, like in a milk jug?

SSB

[waksupi]

SSB, the LDPE is not milk jugs. Look for coffee can lids, margarine container lids. Different consistancy from milk jugs. Once you handle it, you will probably always remember it's properties.



Jeff,

Hadn't thought of that, although dacron wadding has crossed my mind. I think I'll try it tomorrow with Unique and some type of wad.

BTW isn't LDPE plastic, like in a milk jug?

SSB

[texas tenring]

I aggree with a previous post don't worry about a frosted bore, dark or even pitted as long as there is good rifleing and the crown looks good they will shoot, it just takes more time cleaning. I'm sure you have already but also check the action screws and play with seating depth.

[JeffinNZ]

SSB: Don't know about the US but here is New Zealand the recycling mark on LDPE is "4" in a triangle.

I have a 'poltice' of lids from baby formula cans from when my wee girl was on the bottle.

[mag_01]

Think of paraffin as a cleaner or a hardener not a lube' as stated beeswax is a much better lube---I basically use Felix lube with a little paraffin to harden it-------Mag

[Bear Claw]

I also agree on slowing it down, I am using 14.5 & 15.5 gr of 2400, for me any thing over 20gr of 2400 turns into patterns in my M/N

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

I want to try some slower loads with this boolit. Unfortunately I don't have any 2400 in stock and the next gun show isn't until Feb. Can I use Blue Dot? If so, how much?

Thanks.

SSB

[monadnock#5]

Hey JeffinNZ, do you use a glue to adhere the LDPE to the boolit base, or compress it between base and powder charge? Thanks.

Ken

[C1PNR]

I want to try some slower loads with this boolit. Unfortunately I don't have any 2400 in stock and the next gun show isn't until Feb. Can I use Blue Dot? If so, how much?SSB
This is interesting.

I looked up all my "suggested" loads for the caliber and I find NO ideas for use of Blue Dot with boolits.

I do, however, find two suggestions for FLGC stuff. To wit: 123 Hornady Softpoint over 20 to 24 grains Blue Dot (2,198 to 2,526 fps); and a 147 fmj over 19 to 21 grains Blue Dot (1,961 to 2,087 fps). Both of which were fired in a M44 MN.

I've not tried either, so you MUST approach from below with caution.:roll: :coffee:

[BerdanIII]

Try 7 - 8 grains of Unique with this bullet. I have had good luck with 7.5 grs. of Unique in the .308 WCF to 100 yards with plain-based bullets in this weight. If Blue Dot is close to Red Dot in burn rate, you might want to start at 7 grains. Check your expander/flarer plug diameter; I use a .311" RCBS tapered expander for .311" diameter bullets after sizing with a .310" expander button. The bullets can be seated easily and you can let the rifle set the final overall cartridge length by chambering the round. Pistol primers give me slightly better accuracy than rifle primers in this application. I ream the flashholes with a #40 drill to prevent the case from shortening, but your case is rimmed, so it's not necessary from a case-life standpoint. I'm a newcomer to this game, but it's amazing to me how you can get a lead bullet and little powder to shoot accurately to 100 yards.

[Ricochet]

Blue Dot is much slower burning than Red Dot. It's suitable for high velocity loads in things like the .44 Magnum. Faster than 2400 or AA-9. It was originally a powder for heavy magnum shotshell loads.

[cropcirclewalker]

Gentlemen,

I want to try some slower loads with this boolit. Unfortunately I don't have any 2400 in stock and the next gun show isn't until Feb. Can I use Blue Dot? If so, how much?

Thanks.

SSBMy data indicates 12.8 gr Blue Dot under a Lee TL160-2R (that's gas checked) in a No. 4 Mk 1 (that's .303 Brit) gives velocity of 1558 fps with a sd of 16.93.

I also have .30-06 165 gr plain based Meister LRNFP at 1330 fps with sd of 17.74 using Blue Dot 10.7 grains.

Sorry, I don't know how these relate to your cartridge.

I like Blue Dot in rifles. Burns Clean for me and does not seem to be positionally sensitive. No fillers.

YMMV and, of course, These are not published loads, only what my chronograph said. UR ON UR OWN.

:neutral:

[Oldtimer45]

My son has an M-44 that is .314 in the bore. We used a 30 cal.Lee bullet 170 gr. rnfp that is .313 unsized,tumble lube,Gas check and 10 gr. Unique. It shot 2 inch groups at 100 yds. The speed was 1310 and the group was 8 inchs low. I now have a Lee mold for the 160 gr. tl bullet,have not tryed it but have high hopes.