452423 Question

[MikeS]

Hi All.

I recently bought a used single cavity 452423. It was a bit rusty, and even after I cleaned it up a bit it still has some pitting, but it is castable, and they don't come out too bad.

My question is this: The boolits weigh considerable less than they're supposed to. At first I thought this was due to using an alloy that was high in linotype. Well, today I cast up some more, along with some H&G #68 Lee clones. This was done with a pot that was 1/4 lino, 1/4 stick ons, and 1/2 clip ons. Well, the H&G weighs exactly 200gr as cast, but the 452423 only weighs 225gr! That's quite a bit less than the 238gr they're supposed to weigh. I was doing some reading about the 452423 and I see that it's supposed to have 3 driving bands of equal size, and I think they're supposed to be .1 well, my mould doesn't have that, the 2 upper bands are .1, but the last one (the one closest to the boolit's base) is only .075! With a closer look at my mould, I notice that the upper locating pin is VERY close to the top of the mould, in fact the hole the pin is in actually breaks thru right where the 2 blocks meet. So I'm wondering, did somebody modify this mould, or did somebody at Lyman screw up years ago? (the mould is pretty old, and marked Ideal, not Lyman). I'll be shooting this out of a PT1911, so maybe the shortening (and lightening) of this mould is a good thing? Does anyone have the overall length this boolit is supposed to be? thanks for any input!

[excess650]

The 452423 that I had was a single cavity Ideal, and it weighed more like 245gr. It sounds like yours has had the tops of the blocks milled or ground to shorten the base band and lessen weight. IMO, this is a good thing if you're shooting it from an auto.

[Bret4207]

Ideal/Lyman uses to offer modification services for very little money. It's entirely possible your mould is a "Special".

[Char-Gar]

I have been casting 452423 for many years from a number of molds. In general they weight

230 grains from Linotype, 240 from No. 2 and 242-246 from various batches of WW.

If, I had a mold that cast 225, I would not spend much time concerned about it. If the bullets shoot well, enjoy it.

[MikeS]

I wonder if the last driving band being shorter will make much of a difference in the way they shoot?

[Love Life]

Best thing to do would be to shoot it and find out.

[462]

I wonder if the last driving band being shorter will make much of a difference in the way they shoot?

Well, there's only one way to find out.

The mould's modifications will make it better suited to your .45 ACP. Elmer Keith designed that boolit specifically for the .45 Auto Rim.

[MikeS]

Hey, can somebody that has one of those boolits handy tell me how tall it is? The ones from my mould are .610 tall. If mine are significantly shorter, I would imagine that I would have less worries about seating it to where it would function thru the 1911 without excessive pressures due to the boolit being seated so far into the case. Yes, I need to get to the range and try them, maybe tomorrow or Friday I'll be able to do that.

[Piedmont]

Mike S, My mould is .650" long and weighs about 245 grains from an alloy a little softer than wheel weights.

[GLL]

http://www.fototime.com/F691E31B675E633/standard.jpg

Jerry

[RobS]

Petty Babies................as it goes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Char-Gar]

Lyman 452423 - .650" All three driving bands should be of equal width.

[Char-Gar]

Here is a drawing of the original 45223. This is from a group buy we did a few years ago.

[MikeS]

Lyman 452423 - .650" All three driving bands should be of equal width.

Well, just to show how there are variations, your first post said one thing, your second post showed another! If you look at the drawing of the 453423 it's .005" short, and the three driving bands are not all the same size, but rather the first one (top) is .090 then next is .080 and the bottom one is .085!

[Char-Gar]

Mike, I don't think the variation is as much as you think. On my first post, I put a micrometer on some bullets I had on the bench and the length was .650. The specs from our group buy gave a length of .645. This is specs for the mold and not a bullet measurment. That is .005 (five thousands of an inch) difference.

I suspect the difference comes from the line on the top of the cast bullet meplat and a little hump where the spru was cut. There are also bullet to bullet differences depending on the alloy used. A .005 difference from a cast bullet and the specs for a mold is nothing to make note of.

As far as the three driving bands of equal wide, that comes from Elmer Keith's writings. In practice there are some minor variation in the actual bullets. This cast bullet stuff does not deal in laboratory tolerances. Lyman molds show noticeable differences as cherries were worn, sharpened and new ones made.

The point of my first post, was to the effect that it is not fruitful to worry about a few grains weight difference between your bullets and somebody elses. The only thing that matters, is how YOUR bullets play follow the leader into the target, in YOUR pistol. It matters not one whit, what somebody else bullet weighs vis a vi yours. Let's not major on the minor, but keep the main thing the main thing.

[Love Life]

The only way to find out if this boolit will function and shoot well from your pistol is to do some load developement and shoot them. Just make sure your rounds feed in the auto pistol. A good place to start for possible loads would be the load data for the 45AR (auto rim). I hope everything works out for you and you get it working fine, but don't get too wrapped around the axle of dimensions. Prudent reloading practices and starting low and working up will get you where you need to be.

Accuracy wise what are you hoping to achieve? Are you looking for the one hole group at 50 yards or minute of bowling pin accuracy? When I worked up a load for the lee 452-255-RF for a Kimber Custome TLE II I worked up slow with 5 round test batches working my way up 1/10 of a grain at a time to get function, accuracy, and safe charge accomplished.

After all that long windedness it boils down to this. Develope a load that works for your gun and have a blast. Pun intended.