New member/1894 handloading question

[BDOW]

Hello,

I recently purchased a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag and found this forum through the Alaska Outdoor Directory Forum. I looked around for a few weeks and have found a lot of good information and since I want to mainly shoot Hardcast out of my new rifle, I figured I should join up.

I would really like this to be my all around rifle that I take with me when I go out hiking, fishing, and camping, and pretty much anywhere and everywhere. A buddy and I ordered some .44 boolits (me for my marlin, and him for his Super Redhawk) but after assembling some dummy round tonight I think I might need to try something different.

One of the boolits were Oregon Trail 310gr with what looks like a WLN profile. As I kind of expected, the COAL was longer than recommended when seated to the crimp groove (maybe 1.67" instead of 1.60") The round would cycle if I worked the action slowly, but it would hang up every time when cycled with conviction. It looks as though the face of the boolit was hitting the top of the chamber.

I am having a similar problem with the 260grain Cast Performance WFNGC. They will sit with the crimp groove at the recommended COAL (1.60"). These seem to feed a little more reliably but still hang up the same way the 310 grainers do.

This is my first attempt handloading for a pistol round. I have successfully worked up loads for my 300wsm but it seems there may be a little more finesse involved for this round in this application.

Before I start messing around with the rifle are there different boolit profiles that work better in the 1894? I don't mind taking things apart and getting into it if it means a better functioning firearm but don't want to mess with things that I don't have to.

In a perfect world I would like to be able to use 300grain boolits but if I have to settle for 280's or 260's

If anyone has any advice to share it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brian

[Piedmont]

Yes, cowboy type bullets work best in the lever actions (rounded ogive with flat point). Check into Ranch Dog and BRP designs. Most find best accuracy with .432-.433" bullets.

[Bret4207]

Welcome aboard. The very first thing I would do is lose the "hardcast" idea. It's an advertising term. It defines nothing. Obviously, it's also a pet peeve of mine. We've spent over 10 years trying to wean people off the "hard" idea since no one can define it or wants to or is willing to stick with a definition when someone tries.

A 250ish gr lead alloy boolit at 14-1600 fps is a reasonable expectation from a 44 mag. As you've discovered feeding can be an issue. I'd find a more traditional design intended for lever guns and not a revolver and start there. I'd use standard loads from the Lyman Cast Bullet book and see what my rifle wanted to do.

[missionary5155]

Good morning & Greetings to our Castboolits home of fun & relaxation !
I primarily shoot caliber .41 & .45 in lever guns of pistol cartrige type but you are at the right place to get it all casting correctly.

[Duckiller]

If it won't feed properly send it to Marlin. I have a pre-saftey model that would hang up when I tried ti unload it after hunting. No problem feeding it single shot. Third or fourth time to gunsmith I tried it in front of clerk/smith. He wasn't happy then a cartridge hung up. He took it back and said it would be 3-4 weeks before they got it back from Marlin. No problems ever since. I have not shot long cast boolits in it from the magazine. May have to do that soon to see if I need a new mould. It is a handy and fun rifle to shoot. Installed a Marble tang sight for long (!00+) distance. It is not a long distance gun and I use the sight on the barrel for shots less than 75- yds. 75-100 yards I must make a decision every time I shoot at those distances. I am by no means consistent., just do what ever seems right at the time.

[DukeInFlorida]

All the notes in the reloading data books that I have indicate that the Marlin microgrooves really really really like linotype (pure linotype) for the bullets. So, that's all I have ever used as raw material for those bullets.

I've gotten to the point where I really like the Hornady polymer tipped bullets for the .44 mag rifle. The shoot faster, fly straighter, and handle the tube magazine issue fine. That's what I use for hunting. I tend to stay under 300 grains (have heavier bullets for my S&W model 629) for the cast bullets for that same rifle.

Not sure what you plan on using heavier bullets for.

[PacMan]

Go to Beartooh bullets.They have designs that are set up for lever rifles. I would look into somthing in the 265 to 280 gr weights. Some including myself had problems getting the 300 grainers and up to stablize past about 75 yards. If you are looking at casting the Ranch Dog and BRP designs are great bullets.I shoot the RD 265gr .232 dia lubed with LBT Blue Soft in mine and am pushing it right at 1750fps and very accurate.
Dwight

PS - Welcome aboard.

[BDOW]

Thanks for the replies, suggestions, and advice.

Casting my own is definitely something I want to do but with to many irons in the fire already its going to have to wait.

I would like this to end up being my walking around gun. Something to have when I'm hiking, camping, fishing, etc...

Its weight, size, open sights, and ruggedness all appeal to me. Who knows, maybe I'll take it dear hunting with me or use it for black bear this fall.

I chose the .44 because I've shot the big handguns, 454 Cassul and 500 S&W, and don't really like them. I wanted a round I could share with a revolver so the .44mag was my answer.

Bret,
I understand where you're coming from with the "Hardcast" label. Especially if there is no standard for the "hardness". I notice some manufactures list the hardness of their alloys.

What is the hardness of a run of the mill lead alloy Vs. the harder alloys?

Thanks again,

[Bret4207]

Define "run of the mill" or "harder"! We've tried to nail folks down to what soft, medium and hard means. For some reason we can't do it. Myself, I use a lot of older wheel weights. We're I in your shoes, I'd use the same thing. My WW runs around 11-12 Bhn when air cooled. If I want, I can quench it and bring the Bhn up into the low 20's. But here's the thing- the boolit is still ductile, almost like it was when AC. I guess what I'm trying to say is Bhn or "hardness" alone indicates little. It's what it's made up of that matters as much as it's Bhn. And then there's the problem of what that alloy will do with your load, what it will do on impact, etc. And that's completely over looking fit, bot static and dynamic. We can take 3 different alloys and get the same Bhn while all 3 have widely varying makeups. We can take the exact same alloy and treat it 3 different ways and come up with 3 different Bhns. We can have 2 boolits, one at 12 Bhn and one at 25 and the 12 will penetrate further than the 25 if we push it right, or vice versa.

It's not as simple as HARDCAST!!!! Hardcast is a nifty advertising term used by commercial casters who want to ship a boolit that is hard enough to withstand the rigors of storage and shipment with out denting up a bunch, that's the same reason they use those crayon lubes- they stay in place (and they come in pretty colors). It's a sales gimmick in the long run. Everyone fears leading and since the old wives tale of "bullets being too soft cause leading" is still in play then by saying "our bullets are HARDCAST" it makes it sound like all the leading problems will be solved. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm not even going to touch the whole size issue. Use what you want, order small quantities and experiment. Find what works for you. Since you're in Alaska you might want to check with Bullshop and consider his boolits since he is one of the enlightened souls from this site. http://www.bullshop.gunloads.com/

[cajun shooter]

Bret, Gave you some good advise in his last sentence. Contact Bullshop as he lives and hunts Alaska. He will have a much better idea on what to use than most other members myself included. I have hunted Bear in Quebec and found that the best piece of equipment to have is a top of the line named BUG Suit!! I would think that Bullshop will have the perfect bullet for your use.

[Char-Gar]

The Marlin leverguns in both .357 Mag and 44 Mag will not feed reliably rounds that are longer than a certain length. They are very picky about that.

However, the issue is easy to fix by filing the rear end of the cartridge carrier to give some more length for the rounds. I don't have the website, but there are some good instructions out there on the web for doing this. Google up "Marlin jam" and you can find what you want.

It does work, I fixed my Marlin 44 Mag.

I agree with others who get peeved at all of the "hardcast" nonsense. It has taken root on this board and is very hard to kill off. But, we keep trying.

[btroj]

I am a reformed hard cast believer! I used to think hard was the end all be all. Now I am using bullets way softer than I ever thought could work.
I do not have a hardness tester but I would be amazed if many of my bullets test over 12 to 15 bhn. I know other who consider 20 bhn as soft!
I shoot largely handguns or pistol cartridge lever so range scrap alone works well for all my needs. I will add a bit of magnum shot and water drop if I need harder.

[MGySgt]

Feeding Problems? Check this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=113737

[Muddy Creek Sam]

http://marauder.homestead.com/Rifles.html For feeding problems on a Marlin.

Sam :D

[squirrelnuttz]

Informative thread guys! I'm just starting down the path with an 1894 FG .41 mag Marlin.
Only one cast boolit test load done so far, need to do more testing. Lee 215 gr. SWC TL, made of A/C Clip on WW. And Unique powder. Re testing and trying SR 4756 and Blue Dot combinations.Feeds and functions, fires safely as cast at .412''

[GH1]

If you want to modify your Marlin to handle longer cartridges, try the link below.
I've performed this mod on my gun and it's a simple and effective fix.
On the other hand, if you go to the Hornady website you'll find load data listed specifically for the FTX bullets, including cartridge trim lengths.
www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,13688.0.html