1911 vs bear

[pmer]

I've been reading a couple of posts about hand guns for bear protection and found this link about a 1911 used on a black bear. I would want something bigger but the mighty 1911 strikes again.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298031

I suppose your close to 45 Colt power with the right boolit / bullet and the extra shots must've helped him.

[Matthew 25]

A 1911 has a pretty strong argument for fast follow-up shots. Not my first choice, but not a horrible one either.

[NickSS]

It might have been a female with cubs near by they do get aggressive. I killed a deer some 30 years ago with my 45 1911. I shot it 4 times three in the lungs and one in the left rear ham. It ran about 50 yards and died. Personally I was not impressed with the results considering I was using a +P load with 200 gr Hollow cavity bullets none of which expanded at all. The deer hide plugged the hollow point and they acted just like hard ball. I suppose a 45 is better than throwing rocks but it would not be my choice for bear medicine.

[Hickory]

I killed a deer some 30 years ago with my 45 1911. I shot it 4 times three in the lungs and one in the left rear ham. It ran about 50 yards and died. Personally I was not impressed with the results considering I was using a +P load with 200 gr Hollow cavity bullets none of which expanded at all.

Unless I get a perfect shot on a deer with a 44 magnum they can be hard to kill.
For me a "perfect" shot is to break down the front shoulder or a neck shot.;)

I'd use a 12 gauge on black bear, does a better job.

[softpoint]

Placement is the key. I have never shot a black bear, but have no doubts that a properly placed shot from a .45 wouldn't stop it. Fast follow-up shots could be important, too as assuming a classic bullseye position and carefully aiming might be hard to accomplish while a bear is opening a can of kickbutt on you.
I've thought that a 10mm auto might even be used against grizzly bears. a 200 grain truncated bullet such as the RCBS mold produces would likely stop a big bear with a brain shot.
I've read where one noted Brown bear hunter carries a .357 magnum for a sidearm. He theorizes that the .357 will get to the brain, and a hit anywhere else with a handgun isn't likely to stop an angry bear, no matter if it is a .454 or larger.
It would be hard for me to leave my Freedom .454 at home if going into bear country, however.The power of the .454 would be a bit more comforting to me, if nothing else! JMO....:cbpour:

[Bret4207]

I never understood this idea that once you cross the Mississippi black bear come outfited with kevlar vests. An average black bear weighs what? 150-175 lbs? Yeah, you get big ones that go 4-500, but most are about the size of a grown man or lighter. Why do we need howitzers? A determined bear/man isn't going to be stopped by any handgun barring a central nervous system hit.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Black bear have been hunted and shot with alot less... but an angry charging bear that has decided to maul without reserve is going to have to be thumped real good.
If I was going to use a handgun it would be the MOST magnum cartrige I have on hand. My first choice is a 12 guage with round ball at 1500 + fps and shooting starts at 25 yards.

[songdog53]

We don't have many black bears around here but even though i love my 1911's I would rather have my 629 if knew had to face a mad bear. I fact rather have a rifle or shotgun. The constant in life is three things you shouldn't mess with 1. mad bear 2.made hog 3. mad woman.....all three will hurt you.

[joesig]

Though I doubt the person in the story used one, there is a following for the 45-08 ARMCO against bears. 45-08 ARMCO = High pressure 45 ACP in a cut down 308 case.

[pmer]

Yea maybe he got lucky with his first shot on the shoulder and it was dead on its feet. I keep thinking about stress and time in situation like that. I would think its what you can do in first few seconds. Maybe the weapon to use is the one you can use the easiest without thinking.

I wonder about a hot loaded big bore though. It would seem like forever to get it down out of recoil and back on target....

[sqlbullet]

If I new I was going up against an angry bear, I would stay home, inside, with a Barrett sticking out the window in the direction I knew the bear would come from.

However, when I hike, I don't feel at all under gunned with my 1911. Of course, my 1911 is a Para P16-40 converted to 10mm stoked with 17+1 rounds of 205 grain RFN moving almost 1300 fps.

[1Shirt]

In Alaska when I was berry picking, or for that matter anyplace off the beaten track always had a 4" Colt 357, w/heavy Kieth loads. Never needed it, but felt comfortable with it. Loaded same load for one of my troops who shot a black of about 200 lb. in front of his tent with a 6" Blackhawk. Said he was in his sleelping bag, and that the bear was about 6' in front of him, and that he shot it in the mouth and it bit the dust. Might have been an exeration of circumstances, but he had me load him an extra box of those loads before I left for the lower 48. That said, if I had a 45ACP, and had the charging bear deal, would have used it with no hesitation. Kind of a use it or loose it in real time.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[shdwlkr]

If it was me and I was going where bears like to hang out I would want one of my rifles with me, 375 winchester with 300 grains of lead or my 45-70 with 425 grains of lead or its sitter a hollow pointed version of the same bullet and lastly a 30-30 with my 173 grain lead bullets. All are good bear medicine and all will let you do it with enough stopping power to make sure you make it home for supper.
A 1911 is a nice firearm but not the best when you are looking at stopping an upset bear. I would be happier with my 44 spl and 255 grain of lead. As to using a 357 magnum I don't see much advantage unless your are used to really heavy loads in it. A 44 magnum might be better but again you have to be used to really heavy loads to give me any confidence in it.
My son-in-law shot a black bear back in New York and had the hide made into a rug and even took the meat home to eat. One thing I remember him saying was that next time he thought he would take something bigger than his 30-30.
What must be remember is it is much easier to kill anything that is not running on adrenaline and much harder to stop anything when it is running on adrenaline. Don't care if it is man or beast this works out to be the same.
I don't ever plan to hunt bears but if one comes up on me while out and about I just hope I have enough firearm to get me home that night.

[bowfishn]

I shot and killed a 200 lb dressed Blackie with a 22 LR one shot to the head, bullet penetrated through 2" of Muscle then through it's skull out the bottom of it's skull and found the bullet 6" below the skull in the neck. Granted the barrel of the handgun was only 3" from the side of his head when I shot. He did not weigh a lot at 200 dressed but his hide squared over 6' and his skull measured over 19", had hardly any fat on him. He was a young male, may have been a big guy if he had had the chance to grow.
A 45 ACP is much better than a 22 LR but my choice for hunting them or protection starts at 44 mag. and goes up from there.

[sisiphunter]

Up north here in Canada. Northern Saskatchewan we get alot of black bears in camp. Generally just leave em alone and they do the same. We need special permits to own a handgun. Then another permit to take it to a range. Ridiculous I know. Im from the wonderful USA originally and was carrying a handgun at 16 when hunting. Now i usually keep a 12 ga around if not my 44 mag carbine or 303 brit Enfield. I do carry my Glock 40 s&w for work. I know shooting a ticked off or high person would be similar to a ticked off bear. So go double tap to major body mass followed by a head shot. should work just fine with a 45.

by the way. Every once in a while the head shot wont do what its suppossed to. Strange i know. Anyway in one case that comes to mind the most effective round was to the fellas hip. Somethin to think about anyways.

[David LaPell]

Here in the adirondacks we have been having more black bear encounters now that it seems fewer people are hunting them. In our camp we had two in one season where members of the hunting club I used to belong to had to shoot them. The first was a sow weighing about 250 pounds. She came charging downhill and luckily the hunter was on the ball, he dropped her with a single .30-06 shot. No cubs were seen, but they may have been around. The second was a small male about 100 pounds, came in on a guy deer hunting and wouldn't stop. That was ended with a .270.
I believe it is more the bullet design than the caliber. A good .357 or a stout .38 with a cast bullet should take care of a black bear if the shot is well placed. When I carry my .38 in the woods I make it a habit to load it with my 170 grain bullets. I don't see why a decent .45 ACP would work in the woods, a good enough reason to use hardball ammo I suppose.

[Bullshop]

Our bear baiting season starts on the 15 of this month. Yesterday we started work on a new bait stand. I am considering putting a red dot sight on a Lee Enfield I have converted to 45 acp and using it for a stand gun. The red dot is because most shots will be taken in twilight conditions. I plan on using the Miheck 200gn HP.
Distance from the stand to the bait is about 40 yards. I think a broad side shot to the ribs should work fine. Hope to have proof soon.

[Larry Gibson]

I've lived and hunted in black bear country most of my life. I've walked the woods many a time with a .22LR or a .32S&WL on and never felt any different regarding bears than when I had a .44 on or was packing a CF rifle. Reading threads like this one always leads me to believe that one must carry a 12 ga shotgun when he goes squirrel hunting with a .22LR? No I don't think so. BTW; I've killed 2 black bears in the 200 lb class with a Colt Commander .45 ACP and both expeired as well as others I've seen killed with magnum handguns. When sleeping out in bear country I always have a M1911 handy (or other handgun, even the .32 S&WL if that's what I have with me) but then I do when sleeping at home in my house also. Two legged miscreant "varmints" are my main concern at home, down town or in the woods. As an LEO I investigated to many crimes against persons where the victoms were victoms because they chose to be, I refuse to be a victom from a bear or otherwise.

I don't know of any black bears that can withstand 7 well placed shots from a M1911 and still be aggressive. If we study actual cases of defense against black bears they have been turned by guns of all sizes, sticks, stones, knives and even fists. I've made the mistake of getting between a sow and her cubs twice in my life. I was chased a short distance by one of them and a shot by her ear with a M1917 .45 ACP S&W stopped her and turned her around to take care of the cubs. I didn't miss BTW, that was intentional as I didn't want to kill her. In the other case I simply backed out calmly with my M1911 drawn. I don't fear bears when I'm in the woods and I don't walk around with a 12 ga loaded with slugs eiether. A handgun, even the lowly .45 ACP, and common sense aroung black bears and when in their territory will suffice.

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

The biggest problem with shooting a bear in the head, is you don't have all that big of a target to hit, to be effective.

[pdawg_shooter]

A 1911 seats the heck out of a stick!

[1Shirt]

Lots of interesting stuff and opinions in this thread. Guess my bottom line would be you use what you have if you have to use it. Few of us will ever have the experiance of facing a black bear charge.

When I grew up in western N.Y. there were no bear in the area, only in the Aderondack Mts, and maybe the Catskills
However, now in western N.Y. bear sightings are not uncommon. We have had cougers killed within the city limits of Omaha, and seems like stories like this are more and more common.

Habitat encrouchment on the part of so called advancement of civilization eh?
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Bullshop]

"A 1911 beats the heck out of a stick! "

Funny you should say that. I actually used a stick one time on a bear. I was sawing timber and needed a screw driver from my pack to tune my saw carburetor. It was a very steep hill so I just kept throwing my pack up hill ahead of me as I went.
I turned around to get my pack and a bear was on it ripping it open to get the sandwich I had in it. I picked up a thick spruce limb and whacked the bear across the back with all I had. He took off and ran about 30 yards, stopped, turned, and looked at me.
He then wrinkled his nose up, laid his ears back and came back at me. It gave me enough time the get the 44 mag 5" Redhawk out of the pack and stop the bear.
First shot was aimed single action through the head and the next three were double action just following the bear with the front sight. He was dead when he hit the last long I sawd and stopped rolling. I am sure he was dead after the first shot but he was moving so I was shooting.
A quick inspection of my pack proved my sandwich was safe. Hey! it was almost lunch time!!!

[Wrbjr]

I was out in Tates Hell State Forest in the Panhandle of Fla a couple of years ago. I was armed with a 6.2 MP Nikon at the time.
I startled a mid sized Black Bear behind a Palmetto bush, he stood fully erect and sized me up in a split second. I guess he sensed I was going to shoot him with my Nikon so he dropped down behind the bush out of sight. I tried to get a good focus on this area so when he emerged I could get a series of shots off. BUT...when he emerged he was in a dead charge straight at me. Let me tell you right now that I never dreamed a bear could cover ground that fast. I was not carrying my .357 at the time and I doubt I would have been able to clear leather before he ate up those yards between us like a FREAKING locomotive much less get a decent shot or shots off.
Obviously I survived to tell this story only because at the last second he veered off 90 degrees and crashed through the underbrush and was gone. The adrenalin pumped for thirty min.
No, I never even got a single photo. Don't need one. That bear will be forever seared in my memory on the charge. I can still hear him.

[jmsj]

Bullshop,
Good story and great shooting under pressure,
That reminds me of the first bear I shot. I had shot a bear on rock slide, the bear folded up and rolled down the rock slide. I was going to shoot him again and the man I was hunting w/ said don't shoot, he's dead, you'll just tear up the hide.
We started our way down to the bottom of the rock slide when we noticed the bear had gotten up and was heading towards the brush. I fired and missed. We followed the blood trail until the blood ran out and the brush got too thick.
My dad shows up says he heard the shots and asks where's the bear? I told him what happened and he proceeded to chew me out. He said "On bears you keep shooting till you know he's dead not think he's dead, bears are not rabbits or deer or antelope. Now we got a pissed off bear to find"(plus a lot of other things that I am sure are against forum rules).
Luckily a local bear outfitter is a friend of ours and was able to bring his hounds and help us track the bear down. The bear had gone to ground about 3 miles from the last spotting of blood and the hounds had gone in the hole w/ the bear. The outfitter says there are too many dogs in there to get a shot. So being the smallest guy they send me in to get some of the dogs out. When I get enough of the dogs out I go back in with a flashlight and gun and shoot the bear again. The outfitter asks if I got him good, and I said yes, He says good now shoot him two or three more times. I get out of the little cave and he asks are you sure he is dead and I reply yes. He says good now you get to go back in their and tie a rope on him so we can pull him out.
Do you know how loud a .44 mag is inside cave? I think my ears rang for a week. Quite an adventure for someone fairly new to big game hunting.
jmsj

[pmer]

Wow; bluff charges, caves and sticks. I'm awfull sheltered deer hunting the same farm for over 25 years. I can't imagine being in a cave wading into a bunch of dogs and trying to chuck them out one at a time!

I wonder if bullshop's bear was thinking - wait a second did he just hit me with a stick?... I think Bullshop forgot more stories than I 'll ever have. LOL

[sixshot]

A 1911 with good, tough ammo will certainly work although most of use would want a different gun, also remember that firepower doesn't kill them....hitting them kills them!
Brett, its really hard to compare a 150-175 lb bear to a person or a deer of the same size, believe me they are very tough & can be a real handful. They are built low to the ground & heavily muscled compared to a man. Their speed is absolutely amazing, for a short distance they are faster than any horse.
If you are in bear country you need to be prepared & also use common sense, very few people are ever attacked by bears but SOME are every year, whether they survive or not depends on how fast they think & how prepared they are to handle the situation.
I've lived in bear country all my life, taken several with sixguns & been in on many other kills, if you take care of business & don't panic you will usually be fine.

Dick

[Bret4207]

Sixshot, I grew up in bear country. You aren't telling me anything I'm not aware of. And having seen or helped with dressing several bear and numerous autopsies, I can assure you the average bear is only slightly more muscled than a human. The 4-600 lbs blacks are FAT, not muscled. Tough, yes, but a good bull is far, far more muscled than any bear and has an attitude that will make any black bear born look like a pussycat. Yet, a 45 is suitable for stopping bulls, stud horses, etc. Teeth and claws can certainly hurt you and I'm not making light of the bear being a predator. But they simply aren't indestructible.

[David LaPell]

Somewhere out there is a video that shows just how powerful a black bear is. It is a small black bear, would guess maybe 250, rolling an old stove, the whole stove, uphill in a dump. I'm not sure the weight on that stove, but to see how easy a black bear can roll that thing is impressive. I know the last bear I saw in the woods was on a trail into camp about the first week of September, and that big boy took up the entire road lengthwise and his gut was practically in the dirt, so he was maybe a 400 plus pounder. There are some big black bears roaming the Adirondacks, like I said, less guys are hunting them now then ever, and so they are getting bigger all the time. The biggest I recall seeing was a photo of the bear that was at the time the NYS record of about 625 when the guy showed me the picture, that bear was a monster black bear. When they start to get that size, nerves fray a little when coming across them in the woods.

[sixshot]

Maybe the bears I've been in on weren't built the same, I'm betting three 175 lb men wouldn't have a chance against one 175 lb bear! I remember an old timer telling me once how he tried to wrestle a small bear cub, maybe 35 lbs into a sack, he said it had torn all his clothes off before he gave up & let it go. I've watched small bears turn over rocks that 2 people couldn't budge.
But again, the 45 will work if thats all you have.

Dick

[Wrbjr]

Having thought about it for some time now, it is my belief that the worst possible scenario that could befall me in the wilderness would be to run afoul of an angry or wounded bear. Polar Grizz Brown or even the smaller Black bear. If it came down to a handgun my choice would be a .41 Magnum. Maybe two .41 Magnums, one for each hand. Glad this will never happen. Still gives me the willies just thinking about it.

As far as 3 men against one bear, I disagree. I doubt 4 unarmed men would prevail once that bear made up his mind. LOL

[Matthew 25]

Another vote here for how tough bears are. I've had my grip broken by a 12 pound feral Tom cat holding as hard as I could. Mad critters are tough. The stories of dangerous game animals charging and killing after being hit with an elephant gun make me think a fair sized mad black bear could cover some ground with a 45 cal hole in its heart. Who hasn't seen a deer run 50-100 yards with chest cavity full of jelly? That settles it, I'm getting a Barrett 50 cal!

wrbjr: you wouldn't get me to volunteer to be #4.

[Love Life]

Get on the trigger and stay on the trigger.

[Bullshop]

Keep that front sight on the target!

[Larry Gibson]

Obvious lessons here; don't wrestle with bears (even if there's 4 of you) and don't piss bears off.

Next time I go where bears "might be" I guess I'll wear a double shoulder holster with a .357 under one pit, a .41 under the other. Will also have a .44 on a belt holster on the right hip, a .45 Colt (loaded hot of course) on the left side, a .32 in a cross draw (might run int "BooBoo instead of Yogi) and a M1911 in middle of the back holster. Then just to be safe I might have a .454, 460 or 500 S&W in a chest holster. Will I be safe getting out of the PU without first "reconing by fire" with a 12 ga with extended mag shooting slugs? I might have all the bases covered that way because you have no idea just how many pissed off bears I've had to deal with just this week alone.........darn, I forgot the ankle holsters, the belly band holster and pocket guns.......so many needs....so many bears.......:groner:

Larry Gibson

[thehouseproduct]

Another vote here for how tough bears are. I've had my grip broken by a 12 pound feral Tom cat holding as hard as I could. Mad critters are tough. The stories of dangerous game animals charging and killing after being hit with an elephant gun make me think a fair sized mad black bear could cover some ground with a 45 cal hole in its heart. Who hasn't seen a deer run 50-100 yards with chest cavity full of jelly? That settles it, I'm getting a Barrett 50 cal!

wrbjr: you wouldn't get me to volunteer to be #4.

Makes me think of my wife telling me to grab the 2 week old horse and hold her hoof down into the special shoe while the vet glued. I was shocked that a baby horse was well stronger than me.

[Swede44mag]

Haven't been in the woods with any Bear around unless it was when I was in Jelly Stone as a kid. But I did get stradle legged a Rattler once it makes the adrenilin run.

[waksupi]

Obvious lessons here; don't wrestle with bears (even if there's 4 of you) and don't piss bears off.

Next time I go where bears "might be" I guess I'll wear a double shoulder holster with a .357 under one pit, a .41 under the other. Will also have a .44 on a belt holster on the right hip, a .45 Colt (loaded hot of course) on the left side, a .32 in a cross draw (might run int "BooBoo instead of Yogi) and a M1911 in middle of the back holster. Then just to be safe I might have a .454, 460 or 500 S&W in a chest holster. Will I be safe getting out of the PU without first "reconing by fire" with a 12 ga with extended mag shooting slugs? I might have all the bases covered that way because you have no idea just how many pissed off bears I've had to deal with just this week alone.........darn, I forgot the ankle holsters, the belly band holster and pocket guns.......so many needs....so many bears.......:groner:

Larry Gibson

You don't need to worry about bears, you need to worry about falling in the creek. You would sink like an anchor with all that hardware on.

[WildmanJack]

I have a buddy that thinks he's the great white hunter. Actually we call him "Road Kill" as all his kills are on the small side. Anyway, he went hunting out in Montana and told me he was going to carry his Kimber .45. I asked if he had something bigger, and was told that the .45 would do fine if he came on any Griz. I suggested that before he leave he should file off the front sight. He asked me why and I said that it wouldn't hurt quite as much when the bear takes that Kimber and shoves it up your butt [smilie=w:!!! He laughed and told me that he had full confidence in his Kimber. Man what a jerk!! :veryconfu

[Bret4207]

To be clear, we aren't talking about how strong a bear is. I've seen smallish bear of around 100 lbs completely rip a Bilco basement door out of a foundation, and it was a very well set door. I've seen bears go through an steel door like it wasn't even there. I've seen then pull an entire Anderson bay window unit off the side of a house. Now that was just bears wanting to get into camps and look around. So there's no doubt they are strong and tough and fast. But skin one out and get rid of the fat, what does it look like? I've been on more than one "dead body" call that turned out to be a skinned bear.

All I'm saying is lets not try an turn them into something worthy of a Sci Fi channel movie.

[David LaPell]

Here's the first encounter I've heard of this year........

http://wnyt.com/article/stories/S2064922.shtml?cat=300

[Multigunner]

In dim light I walked up on what I thought was a large black stray dog standing on hind legs with his head and front paws in a garbage can. I figured it was a Newfoundland or similar dog.
When I got close it reared up and took a swipe at my face but luckily missed by inches, I could see every deatail of his claws.
I figure that little bear weighed maybe 90 pounds at most, probably less. He only swatted at me because he was startled ,he then stood on his hind legs for a few seconds and then took off.
A much larger Blackie, maybe 300-350 came at me while I was snapping a picture. A kid had followed me as I went to try for the picture and had thrown a watermelon rind that hit the bear on the face. Don't know if the bear realized I had not thrown the rind, but it stopped dead when its paws hit the water of a shallow stream between us.
Ive noticed that in several videos of bears rushing at a cameraman with water between them the bear will stop when his paws hit water. They then often make a display splashing water by slamming both front paws down. Could be an instinctive behavior, possibly due to some animals that swimming fairly well like moose being known to kill even a Grizzly in deep water.
A Bear can swim but he doesn't have as much of an advantage in deep water as he would on land, and might drown whether he won a fight or not.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

A co-worker's, ex-Seal father had a run-in with a black bear in his yard a few years back... Forgot, exactly how it started, but he emptied his Colt 1911 on the bear, and then promptly climbed a tree. The bear stayed at the base of the tree for an hour until the wife came home and at the sight of the car, the bear ran off.
Personally, I would not use a semi-auto as my choice of bear protection. Sure, you can definitely kill a bear with one, but we aren't talking double-lung here. We are talking about penetrating to the central nervous system and dropping the bear in its tracks.


Jim

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot many bear in my life with bow rifles and handguns and have a pretty good idea of what will kill one and what will stop one (two totally differnent things). Id have no qualms about shooting a black bear at 30 yards at a bear standing broadside to me in a blind. Yes it no doubt would run off 50 yards or so and die but thats the way a good portion of them do no matter what there shot with. As to dropping one in its tracks the only way thats going to consistantly happen is with a brain or spine shot or possibly by breaking down both front sholders. Most cases where you need to stop one it will be facing you so the sholder shot is out. A 357 to the brain is going to do alot better then a 500 linebaugh to the chest but most guys cant stay calm enough to really be precise with shot placement a 100 percent of the time under that much pressure and id probably have to include myself in that group. Ill put it this way if im out wandering in the woods i dont carry a gun specificaly big enough to drop a bear but if im hunting bear or know theres a good chance of running into a mother and cub I wont fool around with any handgun less then a 44 mag shooting 300 grain bullets. You can argue what might work but why take the chance. Ive been in the woods in bear country all my life and have yet to even have a close call with a bear. Usually when the see hear or smell you there gone into the next county. For the most part a little common sense arms a man much better then any gun but like i said ive seen enough shot to know that guns less then a 44 are marginal and even the 44 isnt going to do it every time. For that a guy needs a big rifle and i personaly dont want to carry one every day.

[Bret4207]

Here's the first encounter I've heard of this year........

http://wnyt.com/article/stories/S2064922.shtml?cat=300

Kind of makes the Catskills sound like deep northern Canada!

Memo to city folks- if the trash cans are knocked over ( you were dumb enough to leave your trash out?) in the spring when hungry bears are just waking up, realize it might be a bear that did it. Common sense.

[pmer]

I suppose all you can do is try and live trap them if there is too many homes around and hunting is not possible. Archery wouldn't work because of the wounded bear threat.

I agree on trying to stay calm for shot placement. It seems guides and writers preffer around a 5" length revolver for this job. I supose its light enough to have with all the time and still has a usable sight radius. Don't put any 185 JHP in that 1911 and a 10 shot stick would help too.

Does anyone have a skeletal view that they can post?

There must be more blackies around in the lower 48 than grizzlies?

[Lonerider]

At the moment, the 1911 is all I have....and it is what I shoot the best without much wondering, guessing, or the ooops thing. I have shot and plan to eventually purchase a .45 bisley in a 4-5 inch barrel.

As I have read this and other post, where the 45 acp in 1911 is pretty much put down as a defense gun in the woods....2 things come to mind;

1)....most encounters I have read were with light hollow points. yes, they may have the speed, but do not have the mass. I am wondering using a hard cast 230 -240 solid, wouldn't be the better option, if the the 45 acp is what you have.
2)..are there, what others consider a better calibers/cartridge....probally so......but.
would it not be better to carry the one that is the most comfortable to shoot accuratelly, where the reaction time in minimal because of the familiarity? and would not it be better to carry what others would think is foolish....if one can shoot to POA every time without thought? What good is it to carrry a 'hand cannon' if its heavy, bulky, awkward, intimidating, uncomfortable to shoot and handle overall. So much so, the confidence level is less than adequate.

I have seen bears in the woods, I have not been charged by one, so I can not speak of eperiences and may have a different take on it. But I am just wondering, familiarity with the gun plays a huge advantage over using a big * * s gun, that I am uncomforable with.

Just wondering out loud.

Lonerider

[waksupi]

Kind of makes the Catskills sound like deep northern Canada!

Memo to city folks- if the trash cans are knocked over ( you were dumb enough to leave your trash out?) in the spring when hungry bears are just waking up, realize it might be a bear that did it. Common sense.


If you leave your trash out at any time in bear country, expect bears. Your fault, not the bears.

[bowfishn]

Maybe the bears I've been in on weren't built the same, I'm betting three 175 lb men wouldn't have a chance against one 175 lb bear! I remember an old timer telling me once how he tried to wrestle a small bear cub, maybe 35 lbs into a sack, he said it had torn all his clothes off before he gave up & let it go. I've watched small bears turn over rocks that 2 people couldn't budge.
But again, the 45 will work if thats all you have.

Dick

Dick, you are right about a bear having much more strength than a man of the same size. Animals seem to have the ability to recruit all there muscle tissue to use at the same time as well as the make up of their tissue is different, an example would be a 200 lb Chimp or a 600 lb Gorilla that seems to have an overly large belly, and it reaches up and grabs a limb pulling itself up by one hand like it was nothing, haven't seen to many 600 lb men that can do a true one arm chin up. The young 200 lb dressed Blackie I shot had almost no fat on him and after we got him skun he did resemble a stocky short legged man. I am 6' 4" and hanging with his nose touching the ground his hind feet were just over my head.
What really amazed me is the amount of muscle on it's head for closing his jaws.
A man on PCP may have a slightly better chance but I would still put my money on the bear. A handgun does give an advantage even if it's a 22 lr ;-)

[Bullshop]

When BS Mom and myself lived on Kuyu island in S E Ak. we had to deal with bear encounters daily. Each of us carried a Marlin 94 in 44 mag when wandering about. Mine was full size and hers was a trapper. We carried them muzzle down on a shoulder sling to keep the rain out.
Plenty of power with 300gn boolits clocking 1700 fps from the muzzle and plenty of fire power with a 10 shot mag.

[sixshot]

If water will stop a charging bear maybe we could take a leak just before it got there & be safe! I'm sure a charge would scare the pi*s out of all of us!
One summer between our jr & sr year in high school 4 of us drove up to Yellowstone Park, we had a cabin at the Fishing Bridge. One day we could hear several people talking real loud so we walked over to see what was going on. A small bear was having a snack in a garbage can (early 1960's) when a crowd started gathering he got scared & ran up a tree, one of us got a stick & started poking him in the "Pelosi" he climbed out on a limb & then fell right at our feet.....STAMPEDE, we had people running all over the place, I still have a small scar on my left forearm where one of my buddies scratched me trying to get in the lead!

Dick

[akraven]

Though I personally would not recommend a 45ACP for Grizzly we did have one killed in Denali park last summer.
http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/07/no-charges-forthcoming-shooting-grizzly-denali-national-park-and-preserve6320
At the least I would go more for a 460 Rowland in a 1911 or maybe a 45-08. Another consideration is the 10mm. Becoming somewhat more popular up here as the better quality loads come out from Double Tap and others.

[white eagle]

1911 is even used by some for elk hunting
why would it not work on a 175# black bear ??

[Bret4207]

1911 is even used by some for elk hunting
why would it not work on a 175# black bear ??

Because they're bullet and boolit proof! Ravenous, cunning, vicious man eaters with needle sharp fangs and claws, ready to tear you apart at the first chance they get!

Lions and tigers and BEARS! Oh my!

[Larry Gibson]

Because they're bullet and boolit proof! Ravenous, cunning, vicious man eaters with needle sharp fangs and claws, ready to tear you apart at the first chance they get!

Lions and tigers and BEARS! Oh my!

Ya got that right Bret....after reading all this and other similar threads I wasn't kidding about packing all those guns in my previous post (I'll stay away from the creeks[smilie=l:). I wasn't kidding...........can't figure out why I ever survived all those years in bear country........

Larry Gibson

[softpoint]

At the moment, the 1911 is all I have....and it is what I shoot the best without much wondering, guessing, or the ooops thing. I have shot and plan to eventually purchase a .45 bisley in a 4-5 inch barrel.

As I have read this and other post, where the 45 acp in 1911 is pretty much put down as a defense gun in the woods....2 things come to mind;

1)....most encounters I have read were with light hollow points. yes, they may have the speed, but do not have the mass. I am wondering using a hard cast 230 -240 solid, wouldn't be the better option, if the the 45 acp is what you have.
2)..are there, what others consider a better calibers/cartridge....probally so......but.
would it not be better to carry the one that is the most comfortable to shoot accuratelly, where the reaction time in minimal because of the familiarity? and would not it be better to carry what others would think is foolish....if one can shoot to POA every time without thought? What good is it to carrry a 'hand cannon' if its heavy, bulky, awkward, intimidating, uncomfortable to shoot and handle overall. So much so, the confidence level is less than adequate.

I have seen bears in the woods, I have not been charged by one, so I can not speak of eperiences and may have a different take on it. But I am just wondering, familiarity with the gun plays a huge advantage over using a big * * s gun, that I am uncomforable with.

Just wondering out loud.

Lonerider
Use a hardcast 230 grain truncated cone style bullet that your gun feeds well. Load 'er up with Blue dot or Longshot, or Unique. Your most dangerous part of your trip will be the drive to and from the recreation area....IMHO...[smilie=s:

[Three44s]

There is a big difference between hunting bears ............

............. and stopping a charge.

With a hunt, if it runs off ........ you get to track it ........

If it's charging ........ the bear has the following advantages:

1) adrenalin

2) element of surprise that it charged

3) it's moving (you don't have the luxury of waiting for a better shot)

4) the bear's profile is the least advantageous to your hitting success

Last but not least of all .............

............. your almost for sure INSIDE of the radius where a so so hit will not stop the bear.

Remember .......... the bear that dies on top of you ....... has likely won.

************************************************** ********************

I laugh when I recall the PH that wrote about his packing a .357 in Alaska while guiding for Brownies.

Phillip Shoemaker as I recall went to GREAT length expousing why a .357 was ALL you needed!

But at the VERY end of that "great prose" ............

.............. he confided in his readers that he was NOW PACKIN' ..............

A .44 mag

(Gave his .357 to his daughter who also guides there in AK!!!)

YUP ......... a .357 was just plenty ........ save for him ...........

************************************************** ***************

I may own a good many heavy revolvers ......... but when I am out where I feel the need, I don't pack a whole brace of them as was joked about earlier .............. I pack one ......... just one ..........

.......... my Smith 629 MG with good heavy solids.



Three 44s

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not all that worried about black bears when in the back country, but had one bad time with a bear in 2002. No hostilities commenced, but it was a memorable event. Just part of being outdoors. I worry a whole lot more about the human vermin in the backcountry than the full-time residents.

Having a firearm along covers most options well. My usual kit is a 686 x 4" in a hip holster, and some kind of rifle behind the truck seat. A shotgun joins the rifle during bird season. Mostly, the sideiron is for people.

[Bret4207]

If you reside in an area where the Black bears (not Grizzly, Brown or Polar) are aggressive and have lost their fear of man then I strongly suggest something like a 35 Whelen or 45-70. If you are in an area where the bears are "normal" then anything you feel comfortable with will be fine. Lets face it boys, a good deal of the worries in this thread are a bit overplayed. You;re probably in more real danger from feral dogs, rabid skunks, walking into a bees nest or a pot plantation than from bears.

[Trey45]

There's black bears in the swamp behind the house here, we see them rarely. If you're in the swamp, the bears are trying their best to be as far from you as they can be. Like Bret said, you've got more to worry about walking into a bees nest than bears back there.

[sixshot]

I was talking to Paco Kelly once & he told me he had taken several bears (I think 6) with a 357 maggie, not sure if they were baited, run with dogs, etc. Just as a side note, when he was a drug agent he shot quite a high number of bad guys also & a few of them shot him, although he's still going strong.

Dick

[pmer]

Here is some video of a bear walking around on a road and I can't imagine rolling down a window of a car. This bear has no fur on its face. I wonder if it has Mange, I've seen Mange on Fox and Coyote.

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s2066941.shtml

Now I can see that when they're walking towards you their head is so wide it blocks the vitals in the chest. And Broadside it basicly looks like you'd have to hit the first shoulder to get heart / lung damage for hunting them. I can see now too that a charge would be very tuff to defend.

[Wrbjr]

A lot of great comments here so far and this is one of my favorite threads.

Yes, I agree we are not likely to have to deal with this situation if we use a modicum of common sense and stay on the hunting side of the equation rather than the charge. As I posted earlier when charged by that Black Bear the dynamics of the encounter are so very very different than being the hunter. I am confident I would not have been able to get more than one shot off if any.

Kudos to Three44s for those thoughts. Right on target!

Certainly a most valid point about "man" being our biggest threat out there. A big plus 1 to the poster on that. Sorry I lost track of the name. Found it. 9.3X62AL!

Also I wondered when the 10mm would be mentioned and there it was when I got out of the hospital and was catching up.
Had some heart scares and some tests run. All turned out well. Some supplements I have been taking for 15 years have resulted in stronger test scores than indicated for one my age and medical history. Defined by machines as abnormal of course.

A 10mm would definitely be an interesting weapon. Maybe Ted Nugent has some 10mm bear stories? Gotta check that out. Will post up here if I find any info on Wild Ted and his Glock.

[akraven]

Also I wondered when the 10mm would be mentioned and there it was when I got out of the hospital and was catching up.
A 10mm would definitely be an interesting weapon. Maybe Ted Nugent has some 10mm bear stories? Gotta check that out. Will post up here if I find any info on Wild Ted and his Glock.

I was the one who mentioned the 10mm. I know of only one instance of a 10mm vs a grizzly here in Alaska. It was posted on a local message board. If I remember correctly he walked out a lodge door in the dark and ran into the bear. Got off a rapid shot and the bear took off. Bear was found the next day and finished off. The initial hit was not fatal but at least caused it to flee.

[Wrbjr]

Wow. What a surprise that must have been. Probably not a fair comparison of the 10mm given the rush to fire in the dark vs a well aimed and placed shot under better circumstances. Glad he wasn't hurt.

[Three44s]

Ever since bear baiting was banned here in Wa. State ......... we have been accumulating more bears. Hounds were also banned for bears and cougars at the same time.

Nothing is really educating the bears or cats to fear humans since then.

More and less fearful.

I was a total skeptic of the .44 mag cartridge until about 1994 when an incident happened to some close friends who were hunting where we summer some of our cows. The short of it was they ran headlong into a grizzly who had fought with and killed a six point bull elk. They were archery hunting. At fifty yards, they drew their arrows and slowly backed out as the bear stood up but did not charge.

It was with that back drop that I began pondering the whole situation.

If I was going to run into such a mess there .......... I was most likely going to be horse back.

A long gun was out of the question because a horse running off from a thrown rider packing your long gun off ............ was going to be of LITTLE use to me.

I needed to be wearing what ever I'd be trying to work myself out of the situation with.

My favorite til' then was the .357 ........ I quickly dropped that idea of sticking with that.

Against all the "brainwashing" that I'd received from reading the dribble from gun magazines ....... I turned to the .44 mag.

My first (and I still have it and cheerish it) was a Ruger Redhawk with a 7.5" barrel.

I quickly realized that it was a bit much while riding horse back or hiking around.

My next was the Smith Mountain Gun ..........

Third a Ruger SRH in 9.5" barrel that was going to be a barrel chop project.

I still have ALL of the above and never rose to the occasion of getting that SRH wacked!

I have also discovered that the .44 mag is what you make of it ........... IF it's packaged in one of those big Rugers and a longer barrel ........ you really have a hunting arm. If the barrel is short ,...... it's a pretty decisive defender of yourself.

That's where my MG comes in. It weighs just 39 oz ....... The premise of this thread is using a 1911 against a mad bear ...... I cry foul! IF you weigh the physics of the .45 acp and the weight of that platform ......... 35 oz . you have to come to the question of WHY ...... ? when there are much better choices out there for no more and maybe less expense.

(I gave a bit over 500 for my MG back in '98)


Clint Smith says a handgun is for fighting your way back to your rifle. I certainly agree ......... but save for shooting that horse running off with my long gun ........ the handgun may well be "as good as it gets" under a particular circumstance.

Three 44s

[hickstick_10]

If you shoot an animal its always been my belief its your responsibility to kill it. If you wound an animal with a pistol on a hiking trail and it goes on to maul someone else after it escapes you, thats bad news all around.

Its every hunters nightmare to loose a wounded animal.

You going to pursue the animal and finish it off with your remaining clip in your 45 if it buggers off into the brush? What about if you have 3 shots left in your revolver?

[David LaPell]

A 10mm would definitely be an interesting weapon. Maybe Ted Nugent has some 10mm bear stories? Gotta check that out. Will post up here if I find any info on Wild Ted and his Glock.

There is a book on Handgun Hunting by Clair Rees that has a few hunting stories and photos of Ted Nugent with his Glock 10mm. I have decided if I ever do own a Glock than it would be in that caliber.

I still believe that if one wanted to carry around that one gun for everything, provided that they handload is the .41 Magnum. The reason I say handloading is because if you can, you can work up your own .41 Specials which really mimic the .40 S & W and low end 10mm's. With the brass, a decent couple of moulds, you can run the .41 all day long.

[Wrbjr]

There is a book on Handgun Hunting by Clair Rees that has a few hunting stories and photos of Ted Nugent with his Glock 10mm. I have decided if I ever do own a Glock than it would be in that caliber.

I still believe that if one wanted to carry around that one gun for everything, provided that they handload is the .41 Magnum. The reason I say handloading is because if you can, you can work up your own .41 Specials which really mimic the .40 S & W and low end 10mm's. With the brass, a decent couple of moulds, you can run the .41 all day long.

David Lapell gets the Gold Star!

I agree and stated if I could have my dream scenario, I would fill both hands with .41 magnums and stand my ground since running really isn't an option in that scenario.

Elmer Keith years ago settled this issue of caliber wars to my way of thinking and he preferred the .41 even slightly ahead of the .44 with the right loads. He was said to have killed an Elk with one by shooting it through the chest I believe it was and the .41 exited through the rear rump
area. Completely through end to end. Not knocking the . 44 at all as it's a fine weapon and gets the job done too. I still aspire to own a .41 and reload for it one of these days.

Good posts guys!

[akraven]

The 41 is another cartridge like the 10mm that has great potiental but just never seemed to catch on with shooters. I can't remember the last time I saw one at a gun shop or gun show. Heck I can't remember seeing any brass or other loading supplies either. It weird how certain things catch on so well and others never make it.
If I remember correctly in an article on the 41 magnum the author guessed that maybe since the 41 was initially offered in an N frame Smith that people figured "if I am going to carry this hug hunk of iron around I might as well make the most of it and get the 44". Of course Dirty Harry helped that along.

[subsonic]

Expected first post to say "Bear wins."

[Piedmont]

Elmer Keith years ago settled this issue of caliber wars to my way of thinking and he preferred the .41 even slightly ahead of the .44 with the right loads.





:groner:


Source?

[robertbank]

To be clear, we aren't talking about how strong a bear is. I've seen smallish bear of around 100 lbs completely rip a Bilco basement door out of a foundation, and it was a very well set door. I've seen bears go through an steel door like it wasn't even there. I've seen then pull an entire Anderson bay window unit off the side of a house. Now that was just bears wanting to get into camps and look around. So there's no doubt they are strong and tough and fast. But skin one out and get rid of the fat, what does it look like? I've been on more than one "dead body" call that turned out to be a skinned bear.

All I'm saying is lets not try an turn them into something worthy of a Sci Fi channel movie.

First bear I saw skinned out was a 200lb male lying on a garage floor in Ft. Resolution in the NWT. From 10' away it looked like a naked man lying there.

Bret with some of the suggestions I have read for handguns when in bear country you have to wonder how long some of the folks think it takes for a bear to cover 10 yards or so. Getting a 8" 500 S&W out of a holster would be a chore for anyone and I am not convinced a similar lengthed Ruger in .44Mag would be any easier. I wouldn't depend on a .22lr, unless that was all I had but missing with a hand cannon doesn't have much appeal either.

Take Care

Bob

[MT Gianni]

A few years back a Grizzly entered into a house south of Polson, MT. The homeowner woke up and his actions caused the bear to leave by the kitchen window he was in the process of entering. The bear then turned and came into the house via the front windows [they were not open he took the pieces inside with him]. He was killed by the homeowner with a 1911shooting AIRC 185 gr jacketed. Our MT bears are generally smaller, I think this one was in the 275-325 lb range. It would not be my first choice but it did the job here.

[David LaPell]

Elmer Keith years ago settled this issue of caliber wars to my way of thinking and he preferred the .41 even slightly ahead of the .44 with the right loads.

According to some of Elmer's letters, especially one written back in 1967 and in the book Letters from Elmer Keith, Elmer did hold a very high regard for the .41 Magnum, but not as high as the .44. Elmer wrote the following in a letter that is on page 71 of that book "The .44 is tops and the the .41 second and the .357 a poor third for accuracy is my findings also....If you want to hit and kill game the .41 and .44's are tops and the .44 best of all."

[Trey45]

Thank you David.

[Bret4207]

First bear I saw skinned out was a 200lb male lying on a garage floor in Ft. Resolution in the NWT. From 10' away it looked like a naked man lying there.

Bret with some of the suggestions I have read for handguns when in bear country you have to wonder how long some of the folks think it takes for a bear to cover 10 yards or so. Getting a 8" 500 S&W out of a holster would be a chore for anyone and I am not convinced a similar lengthed Ruger in .44Mag would be any easier. I wouldn't depend on a .22lr, unless that was all I had but missing with a hand cannon doesn't have much appeal either.

Take Care

Bob

If you get the bear that wants to eat you, you'll never even know he was coming. But the sad truth is there aren't very many black bears roaming the US looking for a tasty human to munch on. I'm not sure where this "bullet proof Black Bear" idea comes from, but it crops up repeatedly on multiple forums. Maybe people just want to feel that Black Bears represent something wild and dangerous or stuff like that. Where I grew up they were a sort of varmint that was looked at as a pest. I'm sorry if that bothers people but my grandmother used to shoo them off the porch with a broom. That colors your perception. If the bear had eaten my grandmother I'd feel differently I suppose.

[robertbank]

If you get the bear that wants to eat you, you'll never even know he was coming. But the sad truth is there aren't very many black bears roaming the US looking for a tasty human to munch on. I'm not sure where this "bullet proof Black Bear" idea comes from, but it crops up repeatedly on multiple forums. Maybe people just want to feel that Black Bears represent something wild and dangerous or stuff like that. Where I grew up they were a sort of varmint that was looked at as a pest. I'm sorry if that bothers people but my grandmother used to shoo them off the porch with a broom. That colors your perception. If the bear had eaten my grandmother I'd feel differently I suppose.

Yes takes Goldie Locks and the Three Bears to a new level. Up here they are quite timid but you have to be careful as they do have a mean streak and when they do decide to come at you they are looking for lunch. Our bush is so thick that you would have seconds to decide what to do. Just one reason why I prefer a 1911 loaded with 45-08 cartridges. I can draw it fast and shoot it faster. I use one in IDPA so I am familiar with it for close in stuff. Attacks are quite rare so I really am not all concerned. Just believe in an ounce of prevention. They are fast and so darn quiet.

Take Care

Bob

[Thumbcocker]

"A 1911 beats the heck out of a stick! "

Funny you should say that. I actually used a stick one time on a bear. I was sawing timber and needed a screw driver from my pack to tune my saw carburetor. It was a very steep hill so I just kept throwing my pack up hill ahead of me as I went.
I turned around to get my pack and a bear was on it ripping it open to get the sandwich I had in it. I picked up a thick spruce limb and whacked the bear across the back with all I had. He took off and ran about 30 yards, stopped, turned, and looked at me.
He then wrinkled his nose up, laid his ears back and came back at me. It gave me enough time the get the 44 mag 5" Redhawk out of the pack and stop the bear.
First shot was aimed single action through the head and the next three were double action just following the bear with the front sight. He was dead when he hit the last long I sawd and stopped rolling. I am sure he was dead after the first shot but he was moving so I was shooting.
A quick inspection of my pack proved my sandwich was safe. Hey! it was almost lunch time!!!



Questions:

1.) What boolit?

2.) What load?

3.) What type of sandwich was it?

4.) Will you share the sandwich recepie?

I figgure that must be one powerful good sandwich for a man to go at a bear with a stick to protect it.

[Multigunner]

Questions:

1.) What boolit?

2.) What load?

3.) What type of sandwich was it?

4.) Will you share the sandwich recepie?

I figgure that must be one powerful good sandwich for a man to go at a bear with a stick to protect it.

Remind me not to get between either the bear or Bullshop and their lunch.

[Three44s]

Thank you David LaPell!

Yes, Elmer held the .44 mag at the top and the .41 second ...........

Besides three .44's ..... I own two .41s as well. I'll admit that I have not spent anywhere the time loading and testing the .41's as I have the .44s but I find that the .44 mag is VERY receptive to loading from .44 special level all the way up with no gaps to full house in .44 mag cases.

Don't kid yourself ...... the .44 mag is very flexible.

Recoil

It's said that the .41 has less recoil. I don't find this if I am shooting heavy slugs in one. My 265 gr. flat nose back up real well.

One recent poster mentions having no time to draw an 8" revolver .........

.......... my defensive revolver of choice wears a FOUR inch tube .......... making it less cumbersome than a five inch 1911.

I own longer barreled guns and said that they are for hunting.

Another poster said that there was a moral responsibility to not wound an animal ...... I agree. But if confronted ......... I'll do my part.

Consider this:

If you let it eat you ........... when it gets hungry ............

............ Will it eat another?

Isn't it more sensical to do one's very best to limit that bear's human charges to just one and live to tell about it?

Elmer Keith had much to say on this subject and he lived it:

In a nut shell he had little use for the 1911 ......... I think they are FINE gun and should have never been replaced by a 9mm for our troops. Maybe updated .......... but at the very least, retain the .45 acp and place it in a DA/SA auto. ........ or leave it the same ....... SA and just train our troops more.

But I don't ever think it was or is a suitable bear gun.

Elmer Keith rated the 1911 and .45 acp as a poor woods gun for the following reasons:

1) Less power ......... my Smith Mountain gun for instance starts at the .45 acp power level at the low end and goes up 500 fps faster with 20 gr. heavier boolit with ONE inch less barrel.

2) Bullet shape .......... the auto loader by it's very nature has to use round nosed or jacketed HP's with a round ogjive

3) Un-natural grip angle for instinctive shooting. A double action Smith or SA Ruger comes on top on this one!

4) Has a safety ........ the DA Smith or DA or SA Ruger has no such encumberance.

5) Low sights .......... The revolvers have taller sights and thus are more flexible for longer ranges .......

............. of course, the above #5 does not pertain to self defense but general woods bumming.

6) The Auto must have ammo loaded to a fairly narrow power level. The revolver is completely free to opperate from the lowliest load to the upper safe limit it was made for.

............ Revolvers don't FTF!

7) Though all handguns are susceptable to limp wristing and thus different bullet placement ..... only autos can and will fail to feed due this condition ......... the revolver is oblivious to it.

All of that said, it certainly is a free country and I am glad that all of us shooters are not stuck on the .44 ........ it would make components more expensive and the guns we cherrish higher priced.

My bragging on the .44 is by no means meant to snub the even more powerful revolver choices out there ......... I have just not owned any of them yet.

Three 44s

[hickstick_10]

Thank you David LaPell!


I own longer barreled guns and said that they are for hunting.

Another poster said that there was a moral responsibility to not wound an animal ...... I agree. But if confronted ......... I'll do my part.

Consider this:

If you let it eat you ........... when it gets hungry ............

............ Will it eat another?

Isn't it more sensical to do one's very best to limit that bear's human charges to just one and live to tell about it?



I never said that, I said its your responsibility to kill it. You going to pursue the animal with your last mag, wearing shorts and a t shirt and pulling your dogs leash along with your free hand? You wouldn\t catch many men doing that.

Wounding an animal and letting it get away on a possible hiking route is almost a guarantee that the animal will charge people again (if it charged the shooter at all). If you shoot an animal, do your part and finish it off, if people aren't willing to do that they should stay home, or walk in the park.

Its more sensical to carry the spray, or a rifle/shotgun. And if that is physically or emotionally impossible most sensical thing to do is stay home. The woods dont need more wounded bears just because they woofed at some fella with an itchy trigger finger. Theres hardly ever any discussion in these bear threads on what you would do if the animal gets away.

I can imagine this clashing with the whole idea of self defense. But any man whose shot "dangerous" game, weather it be in defense of himself, his crops/livestock or for hunting should absolutely dread loosing the animal, because he's put his neighbors in jeopardy as well. Its one of the first lessons (if not the first) taught to anyone whos ever drew a bead on an animal, you shoot it.............you kill it, and you do it as fast as you can. If someones not willing to do that they are more of a danger to others in the woods then one nosy bear ever was.

Defend yourself by all means, but use the best firearm for the job, because once that first slug slaps hide your only goal should be to make absolutely sure the animal is dead.

Baaahh whatever its just another bear thread, best defense for me is to let him have my pic-a-nic basket.

[Matthew 25]

I really do think Elmer is the best, but I don't agree with any of the reasons put forth against a 1911. (except power issues).
In an ideal world an attacking bear would be killed if force was necessary. My little world usually contains a wife and 3 kids under 8 years old. If I wound a scary beast and he runs off, I think I'll be heading back to the truck, call the Division of Wildlife.
I don't suppose I agree with the logic of chasing a wounded bear into the brush, putting your own and possibly other's lives at risk in an attempt of shortening an animal's misery. I value human life above all, risking your life for mean old wounded bear is not wise.

[9.3X62AL]

Both Hickstick and Matthew make valid points. It surely isn't my place to second-guess either man.

My one actual close encounter of the furred kind occurred with a 5.5" Redhawk x 44 Magnum along as a pacifier. No need for shots to be fired, and Marie and I exited slowly as I covered our retreat. For my part, there's nothing like a close call with a handgun to recommend bringing along a rifle into bear country.

[robertbank]

For my part, there's nothing like a close call with a handgun to recommend bringing along a rifle into bear country.

Exactly! I came to the very same conclusion as I retreated with a 1911 loaded with target loads at the back of our range. My Blackie decided I wasn't worth the effort. I now change my targets at the 100 yard mark with my rifle in hand.

Take Care

Bob

[Multigunner]

I really do think Elmer is the best, but I don't agree with any of the reasons put forth against a 1911. (except power issues).
In an ideal world an attacking bear would be killed if force was necessary. My little world usually contains a wife and 3 kids under 8 years old. If I wound a scary beast and he runs off, I think I'll be heading back to the truck, call the Division of Wildlife.
I don't suppose I agree with the logic of chasing a wounded bear into the brush, putting your own and possibly other's lives at risk in an attempt of shortening an animal's misery. I value human life above all, risking your life for mean old wounded bear is not wise.
Aside from humanitarian reasons, the most savage repeat mankiller bears often were found to have recovered from numerous bullet wounds in the past.
A bear can survive horrific injuries, and while what doesn't kill them may not make them stronger, it does appear that wounds inflicted by humans do make the bear more savage when it later encounters humans.

Probably best as you say to leave disposal of a wounded bear to others better equiped for the chore. Those with more powerful weapons and plenty of back up.

[Wrbjr]

I have decided on my ultimate Grizzly killer.
I have put away all of my magnums, 9mm and .40 caliber as well as my .45.

I will carry my NAA .32 pocket rocket.

If the Grizz doesn't die laughing at me he will probably suspect I am one crazy mean demented and dangerous hombre and slowly back away.

In case that doesn't actually work there is still no problem as it has no front sights.

[Trey45]

Hey! That 32 is not to be taken lightly! If you can cram it down the bears throat far enough before he gnaws your arm clean off you can probably squeeze off a few rounds and kill it.
Like the Army cook said, "Death from within".

[ole 5 hole group]

A 1911 in 45ACP is a very formable round and I'm sure there's a member or two on this forum that remembers a day loooong ago in a very far away land where the 45ACP would put a water buffalo down without a lot of fanfare. I don't think times have changed that much that the 45ACP has lost its "punch".

You can kill just about anything with it providing you place the proper bullet in the proper place.

I wouldn't hesitate to carry the 1911 into the Valley of Death – it will get the job done and it never hurts to have Lady Luck as a close companion on such adventures.

Now, for those of you who have never witnessed a blackie running/charging full out – well, you’ll never believe how fast he can cover ground and it doesn’t really matter if it’s flat ground or covered with dense brush – he’ll attain light speed in one step and doesn’t slow down until he’s attained whatever goal he has in mind. You think a big cat is fast – yes he is, but ole blackie will be right on his ****. Watching one run away when you bang a pot & pan is one thing but I will say with certainty, that his speed running away from that “noise” can be compared to a 426 Hemi in a full sized 1970 Dodge with 3:56 gears and when he’s on a mission change that vehicle to a 6.1 liter Hemi 2010 Mopar Challenger with 5:88 gears & 12:1 jugs.