What I have been doing the past 6+ months

[Boerrancher]

I haven't been around to post a lot lately, simply because I havn't been shooting much lately. With the cost of fuel and components, mainly components because I can shoot here on the farm all I want. I can't afford the expensive primers and powder, and I refuse to break into my vacume packed primers that I have put back for tougher times.

Other than taking care of the livestock and the children I have been working on primitive tools and weapons. Last fall I even took a couple of whitetails with my stick and string bow and hand made stone tipped arrows. I have learned to make stone axes and tomahawks and use them with great effectiveness. I guess the thing that the most important thing I have learned is that primitive technology does not mean ineffective, it only means the first.

Here is a pic of some of the items I have made. I am not good with photography so I apologize in advance from the picture quality.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/Paleoitems.jpg

In the photo there are a few knives, a full groove stone axe head made from Basalt, a tomahawk, an arrow with a stone broadhead, and My Atlatl, atlatl dart, and a couple of inserts for the dart. I also tossed in a couple of points and blades made from various types of Chert and Flint. If you would like to see more of my points and such, here is the link to my photo bucket "Lithic Arts" album.

http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/

Now that spring has rolled around, and I think the snow is finally finished falling, had 11 inches of the white stuff 2 weeks ago, I can start getting out a bit more and doing some shooting. I will also be doing more casting as it is fast approaching the time to start berm mining again.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[RP]

very nice bud good to see you back around here also. I have also played around with the knapping so I know what you had to do to get those. I wish I could have gotten the flint to try out but primers and power were cheaper for me when I was doing it.

[dragonrider]

Just the other day I was thinking to myself, self, haven't seen boerrancher are here for some time, wonder how he is doin, welcome back. :) Nice work too.

[Von Gruff]

Seriously impressed with the ability to make but more so to get game with them.
Are the points for the atlatl dart detached in the animal and replaced with another point during a hunt, or are they waiting for further darts to fit to.

Von Gruff.

[scrapcan]

Boer,

I would like to see more on your atlatl and the carved spur, Did you make the atlatl out of cane also?

How long did you make your darts? I am using 6 1/2 foot darts at tha moment. I need ot make a good atlatl that fits. I think we should start a thread on this as I know there is atleast one more of us flingers in the group here.

[Boerrancher]

Von Gruff,

The atlatl was the first repeating spear. The insert with the broad head would remain in the animal and the main dart body would fall away. It would be retrieved by the user and a new insert would be added and the hunt would continue. The foreshaft insert eliminated the need to carry additional darts while on a hunt.

Manleyjt,

Here are the pics of the atlatl, and close ups of the spur and handle. The spur is made from a piece of whitetail antler that I carved and shaped. The atlatl is made of river cane and the spur is set in the end with hide glue and raw hide.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/atlatlspur.jpg

The handle is wrapped with leather cordage and I used a large muscle shell that I found on an Aboriginal site to make a finger button from instead of making a finger bar or loops. The button covers most of the back of the hand and will fit just about any size hand comfortably, unlike the finger bar or finger loops, which have to be made to fit. I added a feather skirt to make it look a bit nicer, and may add a banner stone for extra weight and a counter balance to the dart.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/Atlatlhandlenskirt.jpg

Here is the complete pic of the atlatl. It is not fancy but it works. My dart is 5 1/2 ft long and I make my inserts so the OAL of the dart is 6 ft. It just seems to be easier to use. I may go to a longer dart once I add the banner stone. A 7 to 8 ft dart ought to increase the effective range out to about 70 yards. Maybe 100 yards in the clear and open.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/atlatl.jpg

Do you have a bannerstone or counter weight on your atlatl?

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Von Gruff]

Von Gruff,

The atlatl was the first repeating spear. The insert with the broad head would remain in the animal and the main dart body would fall away. It would be retrieved by the user and a new insert would be added and the hunt would continue. The foreshaft insert eliminated the need to carry additional darts while on a hunt.



Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

That was what I thought, it is just that the system is similar to the Austrlian Aborigine Woomera and in the pics I have seen of them they carry extra spears that look to be in the 7-8ft length but very thin shafted.
Have you hunted with your atlatyl yet. Would it be as effective as a stick and string bow. I expect more range but how is accuracy, and velocity. Would the animal have time to react to the sound - movement of the cast from the atlatyl compared to a bow shot especially if the range was extended a bit? Stick and string bow not a wheeled jobby. While you expect 70-100yds range would that be hunting range or would that come back in to bow ranges? (of aprox 30yds???.)

Forgive the unititiated questions but the concept is intrigueing.

Von Gruff.

[Boerrancher]

Von Gruff,

I was watching a clip on one of the history type channels where they were testing the effectiveness and speed of the atlatl and dart. The atlatl was 18 inches long with a bannerstone counter weight, and the dart was 8 ft. When thrown, at 100 yds the dart was traveling at 33 miles per hour. For the average human to react to it and get out of the way it has to be traveling less than 30 miles per hour when it hits the 100 yard mark. Now how that would apply to large game animals I am not sure, but animals like Bison have poor eyesight, so I am sure they were fairly easy targets while grazing. Here in North America, the bow and arrow are a fairly new weapon. The aboriginal population here did not develop wide spread use of the bow and arrow until the end of the Woodland period which ended about 1500 years ago, and even with the advent of the bow and arrow, the atlatl was still in use well into the historical times for a hunting weapon. I hope this helps, and I don't mind the questions.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[waksupi]

I have an altatl, but haven't used it for quite awhile. Atlatl Bob had a bill sponsored in the legislature this year to get an atlatl hunting season , but it died. Just not enough interest by potential users, and lack of knowledge by people. As it is, they are legal to use during regular season here. The world championship is held at a buffalo jump here in Montana every year.

[JeffinNZ]

Nice work Joe and great to see you back on the forum. I really like the looks of that gear you are making. Cheap to run too!!

[TCLouis]

So Boer R.

How long does it take to finish a point like one of those in the center?

Lots of video out there, but edited so how long things are taking are lost.

[Boerrancher]

So Boer R.

How long does it take to finish a point like one of those in the center?

Lots of video out there, but edited so how long things are taking are lost.

If I get a good spall of flint of of the main core or chunk, I can knock out a 4 to 6 inch point in about 10 to 15 min start to finish. If I am dealing with a real thick piece over an inch thick sometimes it will take as long as a couple hours. Also if the material is delicate or extra brittle like obsidian or dacite, a 4 inch point can take a couple of hours because more care has to be taken in setting up the striking platform(area on the point to be where a flake will be removed) or when you hit it with the antler, the point will break instead of flake. As a matter of fact I broke 3 points tonight, and gave up.

Most people who hunt arrowheads don't realize it nor do the archeologists, but most broken points are broken during the manufacture process. I was surprised when I started shooting stone points on my arrows and darts at actually how durable they were, unless you center up a steel T-style fence post when flinging arrows at a deer. Then the even the best flint will shatter like glass.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[TCFAN]

Very nice work. I really like that full groove axe head. It looks a lot like one I found in a plowed field several years ago on the North Fork of the White river.............Terry

[Mk42gunner]

I haven't been around to post a lot lately, simply because I havn't been shooting much lately. With the cost of fuel and components, mainly components because I can shoot here on the farm all I want. I can't afford the expensive primers and powder, and I refuse to break into my vacume packed primers that I have put back for tougher times.

Other than taking care of the livestock and the children I have been working on primitive tools and weapons. Last fall I even took a couple of whitetails with my stick and string bow and hand made stone tipped arrows. I have learned to make stone axes and tomahawks and use them with great effectiveness. I guess the thing that the most important thing I have learned is that primitive technology does not mean ineffective, it only means the first.

Here is a pic of some of the items I have made. I am not good with photography so I apologize in advance from the picture quality.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/Paleoitems.jpg

In the photo there are a few knives, a full groove stone axe head made from Basalt, a tomahawk, an arrow with a stone broadhead, and My Atlatl, atlatl dart, and a couple of inserts for the dart. I also tossed in a couple of points and blades made from various types of Chert and Flint. If you would like to see more of my points and such, here is the link to my photo bucket "Lithic Arts" album.

http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/

Now that spring has rolled around, and I think the snow is finally finished falling, had 11 inches of the white stuff 2 weeks ago, I can start getting out a bit more and doing some shooting. I will also be doing more casting as it is fast approaching the time to start berm mining again.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

My dad grew up farming. He told me many times that he used to have a stone axe head that he carried in the tractor tool box, he used it to scrape the moldboards when the plow would plug up. He also sould point to a 15 foot diameter circle in a field and say "I lost it somewhere there one day when the plow kept plugging up".


I have an altatl, but haven't used it for quite awhile. Atlatl Bob had a bill sponsored in the legislature this year to get an atlatl hunting season , but it died. Just not enough interest by potential users, and lack of knowledge by people. As it is, they are legal to use during regular season here. The world championship is held at a buffalo jump here in Montana every year.

Missouri actually allows atlatl use during bow season. I don't have any idea how many people actually used them this year, sounds like it might be fun.

Robert

[Boerrancher]

I actually plan to do a pig hunt with mine one of these days. I have killed plenty deer and a pig with my stick bow and stone tipped arrows. There is nothing like driving a 700 to 750 grain arrow 18 to 20 inches deep in a pig's chest. It just shoots through deer.

Best wishes,

Joe

[scrapcan]

Joe,

my meager atlatl does not have a bannerstone/weight. Many of the flingers in our group do have them and use them.

I am finding that atlatl construction and feel is a very personal thing and to make one for yourself is the overall best way to engage in this sport. one must make it fit you if you want it to work the best for you.

We will be assisting with the construction of mamoth target starting this weekend for an upcoming event.

I wish my wife and I were better shots, but hey nothing like becoming the most improved flinger!

[Boerrancher]

I have heard that throwing one is an art. I am not sure about that but I do know it takes some practice, and I sure need a lot of it.

Joe

[longbow]

Very nice work and you are absolutely right when you say that primitive technology is not ineffective. These primitive skills like flintknapping and making cordage are what gave man the ability to survive and flourish. It is good to see such nice work and the skills kept alive and passed on.

Thanks,
Longbow

[geargnasher]

Joe, you continue to awe me. There are flintknappers, and there are primitive weapons experts, and there are archeologists, and then there's this guy in the middle of North America who makes his tools and kills game with them. THAT is called hunting. What I do is harvest a bit of meat every year for the freezer, not really hunt. I stalk game on foot, and on the animal's terms (no bait, sniping, or ambush), but with the distinct advantage of the modern firearm, albeit with lead boolits. I haven't had the confidence to take a deer with a flintlock yet, much less an arrow or primitive arrow, and those who can and do bring down food with tools they made themselves demonstrate rare and special skills far beyond just being able to hit a mark. Anyone who's ever tried to get inside of 20 yards with a white-tailed deer just to see if they could or knapped a simple blade knows the degree of respect I have for you. Those who haven't don't have much of a frame of reference.

Starting your children out with stone knives is an idea I've filed for future reference as well, but I have a lot to learn about natural adhesives first.

Keep up the good work,

Gear

[Von Gruff]

So has anyone on the forum taken an animal with the atlatyl assisted dart or spear.

Von Gruff.

[scrapcan]

Von Gruff,

I have not hit an animal other than the 3d foam types, soon to be a mamoth 3d target! I did watch some videos of pigs and deer being hit with one and it is impressive. There is quite a bit of literature on atlatl use by the aboriginals in Australia. There may be some good info from downunder where you are. I will see if I can dig up the info on force generated by th atlatl dart combination.

[Von Gruff]

The reason I ask is that there are groups showing interest in some of the older weapons with lots of re-enactment groups arround for the various styles and I was wondering whether it was an intelectual, recreational, or actual use that drew people further into the use of these weapons. I have seen some of the u-tube video's that show how to use but find little evidence of actual use. Flintlocks, longbows etc are shown to still gather in the odd animal but the more basic tools like the atlatyl and the sling or a match lock seem to have only the recreational use as far as I can find.
Even the societies where these have been tradional weapons have gone "modern" in many cases.

The Boerrancher and his wonderfull knives are an exception ( and exceptional)

Von Gruff.

[scrapcan]

Von Gruff,

I think there are issues with game laws in some areas that prevent the use of primitive types of equipment. I know we can not use an atlatl in Wyoming at this time to hunt big game.

Pure curiosity is what got me involved, maybe more on the intellectual level than only curiosity.

The Australian aboriginal name is woomera, I would bet you guys have some recent use of this down under that is as good or better reference than up here in the states. If you find some info let me know as I would like to see it also.

[Boerrancher]

Starting your children out with stone knives is an idea I've filed for future reference as well, but I have a lot to learn about natural adhesives first.

Gear

Gear,

The easiest natural adhesive to make is PPG (Pine Pitch Glue). I collect the pitch or resin year round. It constantly and slowly flows from any damaged area of the pine tree. Oft times you can find dried chunks of it on the ground beneath the tree. Then you will need to collect rabbit or deer pellets that are nice and dry, and lastly you will need charcoal, any kind will work as long as you can grind it to a fine powder.

I use a small ceramic condiments bowl, and set it in a pan of water on the stove, but if you want I am sure once you make it a time or two you can figure out how to do it abo style on a camp fire. Put your pine resin in the ceramic bowl, in the pan of water and start the water heating. Make sure that water does not get into your resin. While this is heating and melting, start processing your pellets and charcoal.

With a make shift mortar and pestle mix an equal amount of pellets and charcoal, and grind to an extremely fine powder. You can not get it too fine. Once the resin is good and melted, pick out all of the pieces of bark and any other impurity you find in it, as pieces of bark, or any other chunks(i.e. chunks of pellets or charcoal) will cause the finished PPG to be weak, and hard to apply.

With the melted resin slowly add the mix of ground pellets and charcoal while stirring. I use a bamboo shishcabob stick for this, but any small diameter clean stick will work. I use the long stick because it comes in handy a bit later. Here it is critical that you keep your water at a slow boil. Keep stirring in the charcoal/pellet mix by adding it slowly. When the resin/pellet/charcoal mix becomes so thick that you can barely stir it, start rolling it on to the stick in a ball about the size of a marble. Grab another stick and do the same. Keep doing this until all of the PPG is removed from the bowl.

Place the sticks of the PPG on a piece of wax paper to dry. When you are ready to use the PPG, take one of the sticks and start warming it over a low flame. Don't let it get to close or it will catch on fire and burn so hot you will have a hard time blowing it out. Slowly heat the main piece of material you are going to glue, like the knife blade over the same fire until it is almost too hot to hold. With the warm blade apply PPG to the hafting area of the blade. Insert the blade into the handle and hold for a few seconds until it starts to stiffen up. Once the glue and the blade have cooled down, and the glue is still a bit tacky, pass the blade in and out of the fire a time or two to burn off any excess resin and let it cool. Keep doing this until the PPG is hard when cool.

Here is a couple of pics of a Texas blade secured to a petrafide deer leg bone. One is a full length and the other is a close up.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/TexasKnife2.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/TexasKnifeCU.jpg

Notice how the PPG extends past the end of the handle on to the blade. I fitted the blade fairly tight, but using primitive tools it is difficult to get a perfect fit, and the PPG must fill every gap between the handle and the blade.

Lastly I wrap the area once it cools and hardens with either rawhide, leather lace, or in this case natural fiber cordage. I hope this helps if you decide to make a knife. This method also will work on a metal blade as well it just has to be roughed up a bit and set a bit deeper in the handle.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

P.S. I know it is a shameless Plug, but this knife will be going up in my gallery website soon.

[MT Gianni]

Nice work Joe and no need to apologize for the pics or anything else.

[Von Gruff]

Thought I would post this vid of an AU aborigine using a woomera and spear to take walaby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwNbwPVFkSc&feature=player_embedded

This is a good one on how and why they work especially the last half.
http://military.discovery.com/videos/weapon-masters-shorts-the-atlatl.html

There is a good spear forum on AR with excellent links to atlatal and flint knaping
forums

Von Gruff.

[Von Gruff]

btt

Von Gruff.

[geargnasher]

Thanks for that tutorial, Joe, it is safely copied and filed. Do you know if it will work with Juniper sap? I have no pine trees, but am up to my **** in "Mountain Cedar" as they call it here.

Gear

[Boerrancher]

Gear,

Any evergreen resin will work. The evergreens have a resinous or oil based sap that when heated becomes tar like and hardens, unlike other trees whose sap when cooked down becomes gummy yet will not completely harden.

Here is a pic of a knife I made two evenings ago when It was pouring down rain. It is the largest knife I have made to date. The OAL is a 9 1/2 inches.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/LGknife.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/LgknifeCU.jpg

Notice that here is no cordage used on this knife. The PPG is strong enough to hold the blade for hundres of years if it is taken care of. I would not hesitate to use this knife to bust open the brisket of an elk or moose. The trick to using a knife with a blade this long (4 7/8 in) is to make sure that the direction of force is always applied directly along the center line of the blade. A slight twist or a few degrees of angle left or right could cause the blade to break. That is the main reason a real working blade is around 3 inches. The shorter the stronger and it has less leverage which also makes it harder to break.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe