size or not RD 265?

[stana]

I'm about ready to get my 444 up and running again. I have a can full of RD 265, I've seated GC and dipped in Lee lube, but don't intent to size, because my only sizing die is .429. I used it in the long ago past with sucess in the 444 with lyman 429421. I can't find anything here about shooting unsized, am I OK?

[Jeff H]

If you have not slugged your bore and mic'd your as-cast 265s, you won't know for sure. Also, depending on the hardness of your bullet, you could possibly get away with more or less oversize diameter.

I cast mine from straight wheel weights and let them air cool, so mine 1) come out relatively "soft" by the standards of, say the commercial casters, and 2) come out of the mold about .431" to .4315". Being relatively soft and not too terrbily oversized, I might get away with more than the next fella who is casting larger slugs and/or tempering them by whatever means.

I don't have a Marlin, but I do shoot that bullet in a Ruger Flat Top .44 Special. The chamber mouths are .431" and the grooves are .430", so I got lucky. I can run mine as-cast with a tumble lube, no problem. I opened a LEE sizer to .431" to see if it would "clean things up," as the fill-out on the wheel weight alloy is not perfect and makes it look as if the bands are smaller in the middle - but, it's an illusion and they are consistent. No difference in how it shoots so it's an unnecessary step for me - for my particular gun.

Ironically, I have also conventionally sized/lubed the ssame 265s at .430" and for the life of me cannot tell a difference in shooting them either. No leading in either case and accuracy that would put you to sleep it is so boring.

On the other hand, I have a Rossi '92 in .357 with a .355" groove diameter and have fired .358" cast bullets (not hard ones) through it with no problems.

I would almost bet that .429" is small for your rifle, but slugging the barrel and measuring the slug AND your as-cast 265s will be the safest bet. Marlins supposedly run "big" but depending on what alloy you are casting, you may be casting a bigger or smaller slug than the "advertised" .432" diameter.

[6pt-sika]

I've shot the RD 432-265 aircooled from WW's sized at .430" , .431" amd .432" as well as water quenched from .432" with no problems in about two DOZEN different 444 rifles and have yet to slug the first barrel !

I also have a .433" die which for all intenets and purposes would seat the check and not size the bullet if I cared to use it but so far I've not seen the need !

[stana]

Thanks Jeff and Sika. I did slug my barrel. .4295 both full length and just in front of the chamber. Less than I thought it would be. And my .429 sizing die sized the RD 265 WW water quenched bullet to .430. Unsized bullet is .434.

I don't have a mic, used digital read out calipers. So I will size. I'll load and shoot tomorrow.

[crabo]

Try some both ways since you are loading and testing.

[Bret4207]

See if an unsized boolit in a case will chamber. If it will, you can try it. I shoot a lot of unsized boolits. Rarely do I have a problem.

[btroj]

With crimp on gas checks I have to ask how well the stay on if not sized? I size all my bullets so I don't know.
I have a feeling the rifle will shoot larger bullets just fine. Marlins TEND to need fat bullets but every rifle is an individual.
I have 5 Marlins and have not slugged them. I just find what size they like and go with it. I don't understand this idea that you must slug every barrel. I would save that for the barrel that seems to not want to behave.

[Bullshop]

Your bore diameter (land to land) is way smaller than the sizer you would use if you sized them. Passage through the barrel will crimp them on.

[Jeff H]

Your bore diameter (land to land) is way smaller than the sizer you would use if you sized them. Passage through the barrel will crimp them on.

I can't think of a GC I have tried that wouldn't stay on well enough to get the bullet in the case and seated either, so there's a new gas check seater for free.

[stana]

Thanks all for the help with the RD 265. I shot three 3 shot groups yesterday (receiver site), with mixed results. Groups 1 & 2 at 50 yds were 1 1/2 in and 3/8's wide, at 100 yds the group was only 3/4 in wide. That would be a "wow" BUT one 50 yd group (3/8) was 3" tall, the 100 yd group was 4 3/8" vertical. (IMR 4198 est 2000 fps)

A 6 shot group with a SWC crimped in front of the first driving band shot best 5 into 1 3/4 at 50 yds. (red dot loaded to 44 mag vel.)

It appears to me that I have a tight throat. RD bullet was loaded to 2.5 OAL. rounds chambered with resistenced, some more that others. In past years loads were with SWC's crimped in front of first band to get rounds to chamber.

I'm loading to a shorter OAL so rounds easily chamber and will shoot today.

Stan.

[Jeff H]

Stan,
Sounds like pretty good first results to me. You don't have them scattered both ways, so you might just have some quirky little thing going on that is specfic to the rifle that another Marlin owner could point out.

[NHlever]

Sometimes when gas checked boolits are seated in a straight case without being sized the same diameter as the boolit, the gas check itself opens the neck diameter enough that there isn't as much case neck tension as we would like. It could be that your stringing is coming from that. Try a few sized, and see what happens.

[stana]

Just shot the best groups to date with the ranch dog 265 (weighs 276 out of ww). Surplus 4895. loaded almost to the base of the seated boolit. OAL 2.46. I seated the GC's then dipped in Lee alox, cleaned the bases when it dried and loaded.

Two 5 shot groups from 50 yds over the hood of my p/u. 2 5/8" and 2 3/8" all ten in less than 3 inches. Receiver sites and 67 year old eyes, thats about the best I can do.

Thank for all your help Stan.

[Hanzerik]

OAL 2.46

Dang, I was going to say that is a very long COL for a .44, but then went back and re-read your original post. :mrgreen:

[stana]

I put a weaver 4X on my 444 to help with load development. photos of two loads attached. Tumble lubed 265 Lee RD boolit and surplus 4895 (chosen because I have a lot of it). 3 3shot groups at 100 yds. 3" average, top group with the unsized boolit, the other 2 boolits sized to .430. the best with the unsized boolit. (sight change between groups)

The other group, 9 shots at 50 yards, shown with the rifle, is from 265 RD culls tumbled lubed "no gas checks" Loaded in 44-40 brass with surplus AA7 powder (I have a lot of it) to 44 mag vel. The boolit out of the group was keyhole'n. I should have culled the culls I guess.

Shot over the hood of my pickup. overcast and windy.

[stana]

I put a weaver 4X on my 444 to help with load development. photos of two loads attached. Tumble lubed 265 Lee RD boolit and surplus 4895 (chosen because I have a lot of it). 3 3shot groups at 100 yds. 3" average, top group with the unsized boolit, the other 2 boolits sized to .430. the best with the unsized boolit. (sight change between groups)

The other group, 9 shots at 50 yards, shown with the rifle, is from 265 RD culls tumbled lubed "no gas checks" Loaded in 44-40 brass with surplus AA7 powder (I have a lot of it) to 44 mag vel. The boolit out of the group was keyhole'n. I should have culled the culls I guess.