Lube vs leading

[prickett]

This is just a theoretical question... I don't currently have leading.

If I were getting leading, would Carnauba Red reduce leading more than BAC? Assume a normal 9mm load.

[noylj]

Theoretically, no.
If there was one lube that was best in ALL applications, we would all want to use it.

[geargnasher]

You'd be surprised at what you can get away with as far as lube is concerned and have no leading, the key is boolit fit and matching the alloy type to the pressures involved and the rate of pressure build (powder). The difference with lubes, for the most part, has to do with accuracy more than leading.

Gear

[Daddyfixit]

You'd be surprised at what you can get away with as far as lube is concerned and have no leading, the key is boolit fit and matching the alloy type to the pressures involved and the rate of pressure build (powder). The difference with lubes, for the most part, has to do with accuracy more than leading.

Gear

+1 on that!
When I first got some samples of BAC, CR, 2500 and 50/50 I loaded 12 of each lube with 44 Keith swc same brass and powder. Wow, what interesting results!

I shot all from rest at 25 yards using the same point of aim. . I never had a leading issue with my Dan Wesson 44 Mag and didn't expect nor did I get leading, I was more interested in smoke & smell!
One shot high and left 5in group, another low and left 3in group. then the other was high and Right 2in group and last point og aim 2in group. The extreme group spread was 9in, I didn't expect that big of differance from just lube change!!

[btroj]

I will slightly disagree with some of the others. I have found loads that leaded with one lube but not with another. These were not extremely hot loads either.
I will agree with the others in that a load that leads heavily is not likely to suddenly stop leading due to a lube change. Heavy leading is a sign of troubles far greater than a lube issue.
Lu mentioned BAC and CR - these are very similar lubes. I will say that changing from CR to Felix lube might make a bigger difference, if all else is right with your load.

[Larry Gibson]

Theoretically, no.
If there was one lube that was best in ALL applications, we would all want to use it.

As far as a lube to prevent leading with smokeless powders I find that Javelina comes close to "best in all applications". Perhaps Lar's 2500 Plus is looking just about as good. This is with varied alloys (used within their correct application), at temps from 20 to 110 degrees and at velocities from 250 fps to 2800 fps. One can get extreme outside those parameters but Javelina does the job best as an "all around" lube. BTW; I have thoroughly tested and tried a lot of other lubes, keep coming back to Javelina.

Larry Gibson

[ColColt]

I don't understand how a given lube can give better or worse accuracy than another. That just doesn't register as something a lube is suppose to do. I know some are worse offenders than others as for smoke but, accuracy doesn't fit the quotient to me.

[btroj]

Study up on this sight about lube purging.
I have had better luck with Carnuba Red in heat than in cold temps. Same load, different accuracy, until the barrel warmed up. Give the gun 5 shots to warm up and everything was back to normal.
Shooting cast is all about balancing variables.

As A wise man here likes to say- it only matters when it does.

[felix]

ColColt, after you realize the acceleration curve of the projectile is the key to accuracy, then you might be able to decipher the parameters involved in that, and then attribute their values to the components used. ... felix

[williamwaco]

Theoretically, no.
If there was one lube that was best in ALL applications, we would all want to use it.


Just an old fart chiming in here with an opinion nobody wants to hear.

I don't know about all these fancy lubes or metal hardening theories and all that stuff.

All I know is that I have used nothing but 50/50 alox/beeswax of several brands since I started casting before 1960.

I have used it in hundreds of thousands of .32 long and .38 special at 700 fps and in the 30-30 and .338-06 at 2100 fps and in every magnum handgun caliber in between. I never used a gas check either - not once.

I regularly shoot 2 inch groups with an occasional 1.5 inch group at 50 yards with my .357 TC using Ballisti-Cast #651 cast from recovered bullet cores. My lee tester says they measure 8.4 BNH. The charge is 13 gr 2400. It produces no detectible leading after 100 rounds. Same results in Smith revolvers. This exact same load prints in 2 inches at 100 yards from my Ruger No.1.


( With one exception ) I have never had a leading problem in any of them that was not fixed by a proper sizing diameter. ( The one exception was a .357 magnum from a reputable manufacturer with a bore that looked like the rifling was cut with a cold chisel. You could see the tool marks with no bore lite and no magnification. - I could not fix that one. Sold it. Should have sent it back.)

The hardest alloy I ever used was air cooled wheel weights.

Don't forget. The .44 magnum was invented with Elmer Keith's 1/16 tin lead bullets.

[felix]

True, WW, of what you say. Your number 1 gun will hit beer cans all day long at a hunnert. That is great!!! That is my objective with the typical lever gun, and it becomes my challenge shooting offhand with buckhorn sights. However, with my accurate guns, the objective becomes hitting floating shotgun shells, and a rarely seen water moccasin at a hunnert without miss. All day long, too. ... felix

[jonk]

I'd disagree with the premise that one lube can't do everything.

Very hard lubes don't work well at mild handgun velocities I find. However medium soft lubes can and do work fine in all applications. Felix lube and 50/50 both come to mind.

Heck, even LLA deserves mention. Given proper bore fit I find that it works as well as anything else, as long as the gun in question doesn't have TOO long a barrel- doesn't quite do the job in a few of my longer Mausers if I go past a certain velocity, but for 95% of uses is just fine.

Now accuracy is something else. I do feel that different lubes in different applications impact that.

[geargnasher]

ColColt, after you realize the acceleration curve of the projectile is the key to accuracy, then you might be able to decipher the parameters involved in that, and then attribute their values to the components used. ... felix

Felix, it must be your habits from writing lines of code that allow you to condense the essence of what would be an an entire volume into one sentence. I've spent years chasing the elusive details of these "parameters", and that truly is "the quest".

Gear

[35remington]

Jonk, I've found just the opposite. I can use straight paraffin or some heavily paraffin based lube (think commercial cast bullets) and accuracy is fine at low ~800 fps handgun velocities, but accuracy goes away at much higher speeds, which is where the better lubes come in.

Conversely, a good lube at low speeds in the same handguns, like 50-50, when applied in excess, makes accuracy terrible. A good lube demands much less be used at low speeds for me......recall the frequent advice to only lube one lube groove on wadcutters? Here's why.

The difference is that low speeds don't require much of a lube......Darr lube (paraffin/vaseline) is fine for low rifle velocities and pistols, but falls on its face at higher speeds. One of my lubrisizers has Darr in it all the time for low velocity rifle and pistol. The other lubrisizer has something better in it.

[felix]

Yes, that helps, Gear. But, could it be the chicken and egg syndrome, i.e., personality and profession? It has been more than once I wish I would have had an opportunity to design and/or program the main CPU for car/truck engines. They are just now getting close to what I would have done (in my dreams, anyway) in 1980, about when the embedded electronics became commonplace. ... felix