An American Rook Rifle

[pls1911]

Need some serious thought here...
I've been interested in rook rifles for years, and have all the other guns and calibers I'll ever use. It's time to put one together.
Keep in mind the origens and purpose of the rooks: medium bore, quiet, low power guns of gamekeepers on old english estates.
The idea:
A friend recently bought a H&R BC for which I made up several .45/70 loads to try, Nice gun, shoots well, especially with recoil reducers and Lee Shaver's tang sights.
Never to be a Sharps or a Rolling block, but a danged nice gun.
Nice lines.... would make a wonderful (and near silent) rook rifle if chambered in .38 special... a single shot with nice lines, good for crows and critters to maybe 75 yards with cast bullets and tang sights, near silent, no recoil, dirt cheap to shoot, and just plain fun, especially if the ejector was functional.
The same could be achieved with a down loaded .30-30, but that would be contrary to the traditional "low power cartridge "approach.

The challenge would be to find a replacement (octagon) barrel that wouldn't break the bank.
Either bore and reline, or have one made up.
If the factory would make a limited run, I am certain there would be a niche market for this, though it may generate more interest than we think....
Ok... give your thoughts, ideas, barrel maker references...

[hickstick_10]

I like the lines of the so called "rook rifles" and I always was on the look out for a ruger #3 action to make one up on, or a martini cadet. Those "little sharps" would also make a fine gun although expensive. http://www.littlesharps.com/ and the dakota arms version would be even more so.

I imagine those 8mm swede rolling blocks would also fit the bill.


low power guns of gamekeepers on old english estates

Yes and no, a rook is a bird, in the years of the rook rifle it was popular to make pies out of rooks and conies. So they're basically a rifle for shooting crows.

[pls1911]

Yes you're right all around. Rooks were crows and ravens and these guns were carried by for pest control (Blackbirds and all) as well as small game .
The days of the relatively cheap ruger #3s are gone,
the little sharps would be fine but would break the bank,
I'll not convert any sharps or rollers I now own.
IF a Martini cadet could be found (I remember even 10 years ago they were at give away prices) it would make a great Rook, as would .32 Rf rolling block,,, but good condition pieces are hard to find and should be left alone if in great shape... and sorry ones too, in poor shape.
Looking at the gunsmithing requirements of several the options I'd think we'd have a hard time beating something built around a BC.
I'm interested to see what a spare made to spec barrel would cost.
Depending upon how much work we can do ourselves, I think we could come up with a very nice HR Rook with peep sights, interchangeable two barrels for $500-$600, maybe less.

[shaggist]

You might want to look at the single shot .410 shotguns with a barrel liner in your choice of calibers. Winchester, Savage, Stevens, Sears and a number of off-brands from over the years would make a great platform from which to build a rook rifle. Barrel liners are available from Brownell's, Redman's, and Track of the Wolf in a choice of calibers, one of which should be suitable to adapt to whatever caliber you are trying make. A bit of Googling will help you find what you need.

[Wayne R. Scott]

I have what I consider a rifle that is very close to a rook rifle. I have a T/C Contender Carbine that has a 23" Custom Shop .25/20 barrel. With a cast 85 grain boolit and and 2.0 grains of bullseye I have a quiet rifle that will rock any rook.

I have been thinking about having another barrel made for the .32 S&W Long. I think Ed Harris had a .410 single shot relined to .32 S&W Long. I think he called the loads "Cat Sneeze" or something like that. Google .32 S&W rifle, whisper loads, cat sneeze loads etc. I think you may find some thing interesting.

Wayne

[pietro]

I did it the easy way - since I already had a petite Remington #4 Roller in .32 RF, I simply converted my breechblock/FP to CF, and shoot .32 Short Colt CF through it. :drinks:

.

[LIMPINGJ]

I am with Wayne on the TC Carbine. The 32 S&W Long is going to be the next barrel I get.

[John Taylor]

I have made up several Rook rifles on 410 single barrel shotguns and a few others. From 32 ACP to 44 Mag but most were 32 S&W. I did one for myself on a Crescent rolling block using a 308 barrel in 32 S&W and it shot great with factory shorts. Sometime a load has to be worked up for best accuracy. I have a cadet action that I am going to build next in 32 S&W.

[wellfedirishman]

A 223 with heavy cast bullets should do the trick, and H&R sells a decent inexpensive 223 Handi rifle for about $250 or so. Cast bullets loaded with Trailboss would be quiet and effective on birds and bunnies.

[2Tite]

You might try going to the Cast Bullet Associations' forum. Search "bunny guns". There's been a good bit of discussion and development in this same regard. Interesting stuff. I've done several H&R 20 ga shotguns into 32 H&R mag rifles. My friends have'nt let me keep one for myself. Right now I'm ready to build one for myself but can't decide whether to go with the H&R mag or 25 Hornet.

[pls1911]

I thought of the .38 special application for a number of reasons, primarily because I already load for it and have components for many, many thousands of rounds on hand, as well as several bullet molds. It's very efficient, and from a rifle length barrel ( about 24") most bullets should quietly hold just under 1000 fps.
Cheap to shoot, available everywhere, quiet, "big bore" for the application as a nominal rook, but in my mind would qualify on the basis of age, low pressure, and modest velocity.
What's not to like?
I've searched for Rem #4 rollers in .32 rimfire, but decent ones with bad barrels still bring a premium, and with conversion efforts would be pricy for an experiment.
I'd really like to learn what a replacement barrel for a H&R BC made up in either .38 spl would run....
I'll check the CBA site... thanks

[Good Cheer]

Thirty years ago there was a boy in a shop around SLC that was rebarreling 22RF bolt actions to 38Special wadcutters. Wish I'd a got one.

[uscra112]

Stevens Model 101 - a sturdy little mini-Maynard that was made for the centerfire 44-shot cartridge. Easy to rebarrel for the .32 S&W Long, and there ya go. Model 101s go for $300-$400 on Gunbroker. I got one of mine for $200 at a show, 'cause the bore was poor. Frank deHaas once wrote that the action is probably sturdy enough for .38 Spl. if loads were kept very light. Maybe chamber it for .38 Long Colt, which would preclude getting any .38 +P loads into it.

[NickSS]

I used to own a Piper rook rifle in 360 Rook which was basically a 38 long colt loaded with a 125 gr outside lubed bullet of 363 diameter. I shot cut down 38 spl cases with HBWC bullets which expanded nicely and shot quite well out to 50 yards. The idea of a 38 spl rook rifle is a good one but you would need to load it down to get quiet loads. I have an H&R 357 mag barrel for my handy rifle and have it setup with a receiver sight and a blade front sight. Loaded with 125 gr RF Lee bullets and 3 gr of red dot it works well for potting pests around the house without making a lot of noise.

[troyboy]

That would be my suggestion as well. You can send a shotgun or rifle frame to h&r and the will install a 357 barrel for about 150-160 with shipping. Still a value but the prices are constantly on the rise and the availability is spotty at times

[shaggist]

If you will go to Gunbroker, click on shotguns, click on single shot, and enter '410' in the search block, you will find a number of different makes, all suitable for a rook rifle platform. Add a barrel liner in the caliber of your choice, and you will have a neat, well-proportioned rook rifle of which you can be proud. The starting prices range from $25 to $300+, so there is something there for everyone.