Cold weather and the 45APC

[mag_01]

:coffee: ----Would it make sense to load the 45APC for my auto a little hotter now that the weather has turned cold (bbrrr) . Was just a thought. Use bullseye for powder. I will probably shoot throughout the winter months on sunny days



Some days are good and some are bad and some are in-between

[9.3X62AL]

Living in southern California, truly cold weather seldom is a factor in my shooting. I would be hesitant to up-load rounds for winter without some really strong research on such things. Alliant Powder might have that kind of info, but whether they would share it or not with one of us non-technical consumers is another question.

My thoughts.....Bullseye is a high-energy fuel, that is pretty easily ignited. The 45 ACP has a pretty small powder chamber that is certainly reached fully by the firing impulse provided by the large pistol primer. Maybe your first step would be to compare the velocity given by your "summer loads" during August firings with the results found firing them in December or January. Try as best possible to duplicate the rate and volume of fire so that effects (if any) from residual heating created by firing activity are comparable.

The only specific reference to cold weather powder behavioral changes that I recall reading were by the late Bob Milek in the 1970's. This concerned the 357 Magnum and the then-new Blue Dot powder. Mr. Milek reported that at temps in the range of -35* F, Blue Dot occasionally produced unpredictable/random pressure spike indications.

I can't recall if Gen. Hatcher made references to such changes regarding the 45 ACP in his "Hatcher's Notebook" or not--I don't have a copy on hand, and returned it to its owner some years back. Someone with a copy of that work might assist here.

Surely, the using services have conducted test firings of their 45 ACP ammo to assess these matters. If someone could direct us to such materials, that would be way cool. Hmmmmm.....bad descriptor, perhaps. :-)

[BruceB]

mag, ol' man;

Not meaning to be critical here, but I've noticed on several occasions that you refer to the .45 Auto as the ".45 APC". With all the various and assorted .45 cartridges floating around, I thought maybe you'd like to correct your terminology to avoid confusion in the minds of less-experienced folks. An "APC" is either a pill or an armored personnel carrier, and the .45 ACP is the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) cartridge.

Now, "I" know what you mean, and Deputy Al obviously knows, and I'm sure almost everyone else here does, too...but the newbies might not.

Whatever we call it, it's a wonderful round. I used it for several decades in Arctic-Canada winter weather, but I seriously doubt the guns and ammo ever got anywhere near the outside temperature because they were carried inside my parka. So, I never even thought about adjusting the load for winter. The powder was usually Bullseye, with 231 coming into use in my loads in my later years in the North.

I recall one cold (-40F) day when we were out for a drive and came upon a HERD of ptarmigan on the road. I had a Colt Gold Cup .45 and eight loaded mags in the glovebox. By the time I finished shooting, I had brass, empty mags and dead ptarmigan ALL OVER the road! Good thing no one else was foolish enough to be out driving that cold day, as the gun was illegal to have out of the house. Cast boolits, of course. The gun functioned perfectly, but it was probably being kept nice and warm by all the ammo going through it.

I wouldn't worry about changing the load for winter. Some chronographing at different temps might be interesting, though.

[NVcurmudgeon]

mag, taking my lead from the original customer for the .45 ACP, the U.S. military, I don't see much need for seasonal adjustment of the powder charge. The services all got by with one load for this fine old cartridge from equatorial jungle heat to northern European and Asian winters. Just think about Guadalcanal and Viet Nam on the hot side, and frozen Chosin and Siberia on the cold side. (Yes, the U.S. was part of a little known expedition to Siberia right after WWI. Something about rescuing a Czech army outfit.)

[Sven Dufva]

Hello!
I have never notice that cold will raise pressuer. If you make a maximum load in very cold wether and use it in a hot summer day then you will found that primers and shells indicate high pressuer. That is my experience when i use VV N 105 and N 110 in 357 mag and 44 mag.
I talk about -13 to 80 farenheit.

[Larry Gibson]

:coffee: ----Would it make sense to load the 45APC for my auto a little hotter now that the weather has turned cold (bbrrr) . Was just a thought. Use bullseye for powder. I will probably shoot throughout the winter months on sunny days

A "little hotter" than what? If your load is just on the reliable edge for functioning (many target M1911s set up this way) the auto and you truely go into some very cold weather you may indeed have functioning problems. A increase in load would be right there. However, if your load is of "service" specs now and is a good load no load adjustment would be necessary for the cold weather. In truely sub freezing temperatures a change in lube (or shoot the auto dry) may be necessary. That is lube for the pistol, not the bullet

Larry Gibson

[mag_01]

:coffee: -----Thanks guys all good information and please accept my apologies for the wrong terminology-----BruceB you made me smile and thats a good thing---I normally shoot 3.5 to 4 grs, of bull and was basically wondering if I should be on the higher side of 5grs. or so with 200 gr. boolit--Will be headed to the range again to day---Oh yes it never fails I found 49 of the 50 fired cases----I have plenty of cases but hate to lose any of them----MAG.

[fecmech]

It's my understanding that the military used 5.0 bullseye with the 230 gr. fmj service bullet so I see no problem with that load and 200 swc.( Alliant lists 5.0 at about 16k psi with the 230 gr. fmj and 5.4 with the 230 gr jhp at 19k psi) A while back I pulled a bullet from some WCC72 G.I. ball to check the load. The load was 5.0 grs which looked exactly like my Bullseye and volume wise was exactly the same volume, so there may be some truth to that story. That said, the army certainly would consider jungle to artic use when setting the specs for their ammo. Like a previous poster said if needed for functional reliability you could certainly up the load, your call.

[BD]

One thing to keep in mind for cold weather use of the 1911 platform is gloves. Fat gloved fingers, small 1911 trigger guards and the short 1911 trigger pull can lead to AD's when you're in a hurry. Luckily I found this out at the gravel pit. BD

[robertbank]

I have choned loads winter and summer and found no discernable difference i cartridge performace using 231. Titegroup is supposed to react differently below 35F and is not recommended below that. Having said that I am sure there are guys who have used it below that temp.

I use Burke's Gun Oil in the winter. It is good to -50F. Below that and nothing is going to be bothering me when I am wrapped around a bottle of single malt and a good Edmonton Oiler hockey game.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Now cut that out. You know we only shoot our handguns at the range.[smilie=1: You wanna give the Liberals up here a heart attack? On 2nd thought tell us more...:mrgreen:

Ptarmigan are funny birds. When I lived in the Territories I used to shoot them with a .22LR. Get one and you got them all. They would just walk around looking at their brothers with no heads.

Take Care

Bob

[redneckdan]

My biggest problem with winter and 1911 is lube and keeping snow out of the gun. I carry it in a thigh holster while snowmobiling, skiing and such. It nevers fails that I get snow packed into the gun at least once. I usually use grease to lube the gun but in the winter I go to CLP.

[monadnock#5]

If it's truly cold where you are, and you don't like losing your brass, you might want to pick up a military surplus shovel. Or a S&W 625-8. Personally, I hate watching my brass melt to the bottom of a foot and a half of snow pack.
Ken

[Larry Gibson]

:coffee: -----Thanks guys all good information and please accept my apologies for the wrong terminology-----BruceB you made me smile and thats a good thing---I normally shoot 3.5 to 4 grs, of bull and was basically wondering if I should be on the higher side of 5grs. or so with 200 gr. boolit--Will be headed to the range again to day---Oh yes it never fails I found 49 of the 50 fired cases----I have plenty of cases but hate to lose any of them----MAG.

My "standard" load is 5 gr of Bullseye with 190/205 gr cast SWCs. I've shot them for years in temperatures from -10 to +120 out of my M1911s. I've learned to live with losing brass over the years.

Larry Gibson

[robertbank]

If you can get your ejector/extractor tuned right an 8 x 12 tarp over the snow helps somewhat. Personally I have resigned myself to revolvers during the winter. I am cheap and up here .45acp brass is scarcer than hens teeth.

Take Care

Bob