Pure lead and WW's

[foxtrapper]

Since the weather is getting closer to be conducive to outdoor casting, I need some help with a mix. I have WW's that I smelted into fluxed cornbread ingots. I have been casting this mix into gas checked hand gun bullets with great results. I now have many hundreds of pounds of brick form lead that I need to smelt into ingots. If I mix by weight, the same amount of WW's with the pure lead and cast air cooled GC bullets ,will that mix make a good hunting bullet?

[44man]

Yes, but I would water drop them to cut down rifling skid. That will not change how they expand.
The only thing I find with 50-50 is I get a few fliers with every group but more then enough accuracy for hunting to 100 yards.
The mix needs a GC.
For a .454 or 45-70 revolver I am going to try 75-25 because 50-50 blew away a whole shoulder on exit.
It would work great at 50-50 in the .45 Colt, .41 and .44.

[BABore]

Years ago I was advised to switch to a 50/50 WW-Pb alloy to eliminate some of the accuracy problems I was then seeing. It worked out wonderful for me and several others I shoot with. I was advised that a 50/50 alloy should be 9-10 bhn air cooled and 20-22 bhn water dropped or OHT'd. That's what I alloyed my WW and Pb portions to duplicate it and it works well. I use it both air cooled and water dropped for both handguns and rifles. Your WW's will likely be different from mine and 44Man's. I know that he has told me before that his 50/50 mix will only harden to around 16 bhn and his straight WW's harden to around 22 bhn. Mine hit 28-30 bhn as I have a pretty high percentage of heavy truck WW's. So, while I love to tell 44Man he is wrong, cause he usually is, we are both in the same ballpark. He just has to adjust his WW proportion towards 75% to get the same hardness as I get with 50%. You would be best served to check your mix with a hardness tester til you get a similar 9-10 AC/20-22 WD hardness.

As far as having to water drop this alloy for your handguns and the need for a GC are a bunch of hooey. Your gun will tell you what it likes best. I have handguns and rifles that prefer air cooled and ones that like water dropped. Some are preverted and can go either way. Sooooo, do yourself and your gun a favor and test both AC'd and WD'd booilts with each load you work up incrementally. Your gun will tell you better than any opinion found here.

[RobS]

Professor Gun will provide you with the most useful info which means you'll have to do a little leg work yourself....................but that isn't bad as you'll have the chance to let the hammer fall a few more times this way. :)

[foxtrapper]

Thanks for the answers so far. Now how about I leave the WW's be and add Linotype to the pure lead for gc hunting bullets. If thats a good idea how much Linotype to lead?

[357maximum]

RE-READ what BaBore posted please.

YOU DO NOT NEED THE LINOTYPE :confused: and you would be better served with just 50/50.


50/50 either aircooled or waterdropped will do 90% of what I need. Pure lead fills the remaining 10%.

I traded ALL of my lino to a feller at an exchange rate in my favor. Linotype is not necessary ever never ever in a hunting boolit IMHO.

[44man]

Babore is right, WW's are never the same. I was sent air cooled WW boolits that are too soft and refuse to get hard after an oven treatment.
I have no way to make one huge batch so every batch is different.
But I would not get rid of lino because a small amount can fix soft WW's and it can be added to WW's for a little harder target boolit. It takes very little, maybe 10% or so.
It is the same in that you don't know what is left in the lino either and tin might be gone.
Every single one of us has different lead and some WW's are so soft from being recycled with the stick on weights that no pure is needed.
Does Babore have such hard WW's that after adding half pure he is reaching what I start with? None of us will ever know! :veryconfu
This is why everyone has a different answer.

[BABore]

Babore is right, WW's are never the same. I was sent air cooled WW boolits that are too soft and refuse to get hard after an oven treatment.
I have no way to make one huge batch so every batch is different.
But I would not get rid of lino because a small amount can fix soft WW's and it can be added to WW's for a little harder target boolit. It takes very little, maybe 10% or so.
It is the same in that you don't know what is left in the lino either and tin might be gone.
Every single one of us has different lead and some WW's are so soft from being recycled with the stick on weights that no pure is needed.
Does Babore have such hard WW's that after adding half pure he is reaching what I start with? None of us will ever know! :veryconfu
This is why everyone has a different answer.

Well! Didn't you hardness test any of those 50/50 boolits I sent you a couple years back? Shame! Shame!:groner::killingpc[smilie=b:

[44man]

Well! Didn't you hardness test any of those 50/50 boolits I sent you a couple years back? Shame! Shame!:groner::killingpc[smilie=b:
I did after oven hardening them and they are almost the same as my water dropped WW boolits. 20 to 22 BHN.
The problem was that I blew the entire shoulder off of a deer on boolit exit! :mrgreen:
My WW boolits from the same gun just pokes a hole. That is why I hate BHN readings as much as I hate to say "hard cast."
It comes down to working with what you have and shoot animals, lots of animals, and figure what you have to do after each one has a full necropsy.
You must pay close attention to what a boolit did inside an animal, then GO BACK TO THE BENCH AND THINK MORE. When it comes to hunting, my work is never done. That is why Jack Daniels was invented! :drinks: Darn, I wish I could afford the stuff. I think a bottle a boolit would be about right!

[357maximum]

That is why Lincoln invented them red welders and people that can weld make 500+lb capacity smelting pots= Big ol batches of UNIFORM ALLOY=Consistency

[44man]

That is why Lincoln invented them red welders and people that can weld make 500+lb capacity smelting pots= Big ol batches of UNIFORM ALLOY=Consistency
We can do it this way. Get a HUGE smelter in the middle of the country and every shooter bring all of his lead to dump in. Melt a million pounds, cast ingots and each take home what he brought. Then we can all talk the same! [smilie=l:

[357maximum]

We can do it this way. Get a HUGE smelter in the middle of the country and every shooter bring all of his lead to dump in. Melt a million pounds, cast ingots and each take home what he brought. Then we can all talk the same! [smilie=l:

Exactly. There is an old farm house down the road that is for sale. It has some of the old painted solid steel grain bins that look like a cement truck on it's skinny end.

7,000 bushel of corn is how much lead? :shock: Figure we could fill it up/build a fire/pop some caps and wait. There is even a half full haymound in one of the barns we could use for flux.

I will light the fire.........you stir the melt eh? [smilie=s:

[44man]

Exactly. There is an old farm house down the road that is for sale. It has some of the old painted solid steel grain bins that look like a cement truck on it's skinny end.

7,000 bushel of corn is how much lead? :shock: Figure we could fill it up/build a fire/pop some caps and wait. There is even a half full haymound in one of the barns we could use for flux.

I will light the fire.........you stir the melt eh? [smilie=s:
If you want me to stir and flux, have a few 50 gal barrels of Jack handy! [smilie=l:
Babore says he will cast 1# ingots. :bigsmyl2:

[357maximum]

Good ol' Bruce ...he sure is a trooper to make such an offer. [smilie=s:

[Bret4207]

Thanks for the answers so far. Now how about I leave the WW's be and add Linotype to the pure lead for gc hunting bullets. If thats a good idea how much Linotype to lead?

Good linotype is so feakin rare these days that I think it's sin to waste it like that. Save it for that odd duck truly high velocity, hard to get fill out issue you'll have in 5 years. Linotype is a waste for hunting.

[Wayne Smith]

Ditto on the linotype. If you honestly believe you will never cast for rifle - think again! This is an addictive sport! Set it aside, you will, one day, be glad you did, or wish you had.

[BABore]

Good ol' Bruce ...he sure is a trooper to make such an offer. [smilie=s:

Hah! Childsplay and I've already seen it done with small diameter zinc alloy rods.

A 12' section of aluminum bar stock with the ingot profile machined into the full length. The first 2-3 feet has a gas pipe burner under it and the last 6-7 feet is ported for continuous flow water cooling with flow controls. A powered conveyor, with heat resistent belting, is setup after the mold to draw the bar along. A cylinder mounted notcher is mounted above the supported end of the mold and controlled with air logic valve and adjustable timer to do it on the cheap. A second cylinder mounted thumper is mounted after the conveyor to snap off the notched ingots where they fall into a tub for hilo removal when full. The initial start-up of this type of system is a little touchy til you can get the continuous ingot flowed out to the conveyor.

I estimate that you would have around 18-23k with design, build, and runoff. Build time would be around 10 weeks. Just about the time your smelt is melted and skimmed.

Bruce is a good trooper, but not toopid.:groner:

[44man]

No, NO, I have a 1# cast iron ladle that will work for a million pounds! :mrgreen: Four dips per ingot mold should use up many gallons of Jack!
Just what is more important? :drinks:

[prickett]

Yes, but I would water drop them to cut down rifling skid. That will not change how they expand.
The only thing I find with 50-50 is I get a few fliers with every group but more then enough accuracy for hunting to 100 yards.
The mix needs a GC.
For a .454 or 45-70 revolver I am going to try 75-25 because 50-50 blew away a whole shoulder on exit.
It would work great at 50-50 in the .45 Colt, .41 and .44.

Does the 50/50 mix work for 9mm's (i.e. no leading)? (regular loads, not light ones)

I'm currently shooting .358 sized 9mm's, straight WW w/o leading. Just wondering if I could expect the same results from the softer alloy.

[BABore]

Does the 50/50 mix work for 9mm's (i.e. no leading)? (regular loads, not light ones)

I'm currently shooting .358 sized 9mm's, straight WW w/o leading. Just wondering if I could expect the same results from the softer alloy.

Yes it will work just fine. #1 is to veryify your alloy and adjust til you come out at 9-10 bhn air cooled and 20-22 bhn water dropped. It may not work out to a 50/50 ratio because of your WW's. I tried both air cooled and water dropped booilts in my 9mm and either one would shoot fine with no leading. No leading is more a situation dictated by fit, powder choice, and lube rather than a hard as hell alloy.

[44man]

I don't know about a 9mm. I only shoot the bigger stuff for hunting. I have never had any leading from 50-50 up to over 1600 fps. The stuff shoots very clean.
I would think the concern with a 9 would be the fast powders and high pressures. You just need to test your gun. Don't fear trying everything.