40/1 Pb/Sn how fast?

[MtJerry]

Gas checked 358156 HP (cup point) 155gr final weight dip-lubed (ala Ranch Dog) with 45/45/10.

How fast do you think i can push this out of a Marlin 1894 and not exceed the pressure of the alloy?

I'm thinking around 1000fps ....

What say the gurus of the silver stream?

[fecmech]

I am not a Guru nor do I play one on TV but this is from my experience. A lot depends on the accuracy level you are willing to accept but I think a conventionally lubed 358156 with gas chk at 40/1 would not surprise me at 1500 fps. I shot 30/1 and 40/1 429421 HP's out of my Super BH at 1400 fps when hunting woodchucks. That's a plain based bullet and it would average 3"@ 50 yds off the bench with no leading and really make a mess on the chuck. Now the 45-45-10 part is something else. I use it with good results in both rifles and pistols up to +P .38 level loads and it works fine. I tried it one time with my mag load of 15/820 and the Lee TLSWC (HT to 18 BHN) and got streak leading in my GP100. I never get leading in that gun with any conventionally lubed bullet with any mag load period. YMMV

[Larry Gibson]

Assuming you mean 40 lbs of WWs with 1 lb bar of 50/50 solder added?

There is no direct correlation between the "pressure of the alloy" (assuming you mean the yeild strength) and attainable velocity as derived from Lee's table (assuming that's why you ask). The attainable velocity with accuracy is going to be based on the alloy of the bullet with regards to the fit of the bullet, the design of the bullet, GC'd, rate or not, the weight of the bullet (heavier bullet has more mass and obturates sooner all other things being equal), the rate of barrel twist and the accelleration rate based on case volume and burning rate of the powder used along with a few other esoteric things. It does not depend on an arbitrary chart based on the yeild strength of the alloy. The yeild strength of the alloy simply means that is when the alloy will begin to obturate. Obturation can be good up to a point then it can be very bad which is where design and fit come into play.

Given your alloy and that GC'd 358156 bullet sized .359 or perhaps .360/.361 there is no reason you should not get 1700-1800+ fps with very good accuracy from your Marlin rifle. With WWs + 2% tin I get 1400+ fps from a 6" barreled revolver with that bullet and excellent accuracy. I even get the same with a much softer alloy for hunting.

To quote Bass; "let professor gun tell you what it likes".

Larry Gibson

[MtJerry]

Negative Larry ... I am talking about 40/1 Lead/Tin.

Very soft boolit (bhn of 10 or so) with a gas check. I am wondering about leading (yes I know there is a GC), and specifically the soft boolit being able to hold onto the microgrooves and not skip across the lands.

I have a .358 barrel using a .360 sized boolit.

I am not new a casting and lubing, but have never played much with soft alloys hence the questions.

Thanks for the comments ... I appreciate education :-)

[Larry Gibson]

MtJerry

Well now, that does put a different perspective on it. I'd say 1000 fps would be close if you were talking revolver. You're talking rifle here with no "jump" to the barrel. Again, the 358156 is a GC'd bullet with a short stubby nose. You might be surprised that with the right powder you might sneak up higher with very good accuracy, perhaps 1200+ if that's where you want to go. I'd change the alloy to 1-16 and then climb right on up to 1600 - 1700 or maybe even 1800 fps dending on the barrel's condition.

Larry Gibson

[MtJerry]

I am looking for a light, general purpose load for my Marlin with a soft enough alloy that I will get some expansion as well.

I have other loads with 50/50 (WW & Pure) alloy that work well already and was just looking for that lighter, walking around load.

I'm thinking with a nice slow powder I can sneak up on 1000 and will maybe shoot for a bit more. Any suggestions on powder? I'm leaning towards IMR 4227 or Lil'Gun.

I already have a load with the same alloy as mentioned in the original post using an Ideal 358439 with a MASSIVE hollow point at around 900fps with a Bullseye load that I shoot out of my Ruger LRC. Now that one is a great load and expands well!!!

Thanks again for the thoughts and mental gymnastics!

[runfiverun]

4227 should work okay for a shot here and there.
you could look at something like a case full of aa-1680 for a gentle push down the bbl.
i can see 1,000-1200 fps doing pretty well here.
40-1 was used in the 45 colt forever at about 900 from a 7-1/2" bbl.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd try the 4227 but keeping the velocity down to 1000 fps may not result in a clean burn or consistent ignition with that slow a powder in the rifle barrel (I don't think you mentioned the length?). Lyman's starting load of 4227 with the 358156 in a 20" rifle barrel is in the 1200 fps range. Remains to be seen though, certainly worth the try. If the 4227 didn't give the results I wanted I would be inclined to next use a powder such as Unique or one close to it.

Larry Gibson

[MtJerry]

How fast do you think i can push this out of a Marlin 1894 and not exceed the pressure of the alloy?


Standard 20" barrel ... I was looking at the article by Glen Fryxell on the Marlin 1894 and found this:


The Lee cowboy bullet over 4.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special cases gave fine accuracy (1 1/2" 5-shot groups at 50 yards) with an average (and very consistent) velocity of 1128 fps.

The weight the Lee Cowboy bullet is the same as what I am working with so I may give this Bullseye load a try but with magnum cases. Only problem I see is that he does not mention alloy type for the bullet in the article. I suspect at the load he mentions, with the 40/1 alloy I should do well.

I think the key to my goal is matching the alloy with the speed that will produce expansion. Again the main reason for my original question.

I am going to give a 4227 load a try with a target velocity of 1000 to 1100 fps. and see what happens.

[runfiverun]

if it's glen writing that, the alloy is most likely ww's and 2% tin.
he rarely strays from that alloy.

[MtJerry]

I suspected that as well.