7.62X25 Tokarev load data

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

I know several here load this cartridge, so I am looking for some specific data for my CZ-52.

I'd like to load 85-110gr Jword bullets and 115-120gr real boolits. I'd like to use Blue Dot, Red Dot Unique or W231/HP38.

I also read during my internet search of a load using a 155gr bullet and 3.0grs of Bullseye for 800 f.p.s. The source sited was Handloader magazine Jan-Feb 1973. Can anyone confirm this data?

I'd really like a TESTED load for 120gr cast boolit with Blue Dot powder, if you have one, But all loads are appreciated.

Thanks

SSB

[9.3X62AL]

7.7 grains of AA-7 is the "factory load duplicator" for the standard 7.62 x 25 as loaded by the Soviets for the Tokarev series of service pistols. From my Tok and the CZ-52, using Hornady limited production FMJ and RNSP 85 grainers--as well as the Hornady .308"/.312" XTP 85 grainer--I get 1375-1400 FPS. My Tok uses the 32 Magnum bullets (.3115" grooves), while the CZ uses the newer .308" XTP in its .309" grooves. I have found no better powder for this caliber using j-word bullets. I haven't confirmed this info, but AA-7 was (allegedly) originally developed to service the 7.62 x 25 by the Czechs in their high-velocity version of this cartridge (1600 FPS+). Not sure as to that, but the fuel sure does good work.

The most recent Hornady Reloading Manual has a wide selection of load data for this caliber using their bullets. IIRC, there are some loads providing 1700 FPS+. MAKE SURE there are no worn rollers on the bolt before getting intrepid with these pistols--wear will show as flat spots on the rollers. www.makarov.com has parts for these pistols, if needed.

[fatnhappy]

Coincidentally, I was reading an old copy of Handloader today, Oct 1999, with an article on reloading the 7.62 x25. If you'd like I'll scan and send it to you.

[mike in co]

i tried several bullets. even resized some bullets from 312 to 310 and 309. my plan was to get 60's to go 2000 fps... i got to 1700 fps....with aa9.

but i also got to 1700 with the hornady 85........

all in a cz52.....

[26Charlie]

I put a couple of loads that nearly match the factory for grouping & point of aim on the database:

http://gunloads.com/modules.php?name=Gunloads&cmd=souscat&cid=238

[singleshotbuff]

Fatnhappy,

That would be FANTASTIC! You can e-mail it to me singleshotbuff at yahoo dot com.

Everyone else,

Thanks for the replies! Looks like I may have to consider AA powders!

SSB

[9.3X62AL]

The CZ-52 is the pistol for use with intrepid handloads--NOT the Tokarev and CERTAINLY NOT the C-96. If you happen to have a PPSh or Skorpion laying around, the high-end stuff will work in those--but those don't exactly grow on trees in the USA.

[singleshotbuff]

Fatnhappy,

Got the e-mail. THANKS!! Just what I was looking for.

SSB

[mosin9130]

Fatnhappy,
may you send to me too the article you told?

My email is armcoll@yahoo.it
or, untill the year end, etacconi.consultant@unicreditxelion.it.
Please, send it to both adress.

Thank you,

Mosin 9130

[9.3X62AL]

Fat & Happy--

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like a copy of that material also.

outdoors4me_92555 AT yahoo DOT com

Thank you, sir!

[montana_charlie]

The CZ-52 is the pistol for use with intrepid handloads--NOT the Tokarev and CERTAINLY NOT the C-96.
The full extent of my knowledge about this round centers around the pistol I 'picked up' in Vietnam (Chinese Type 54)...and some subsequent reading about the origins of the design.
What is the C-96?
CM

[KTN]

What is the C-96?
CM

Broomhandle Mauser.


Kaj

[Bodydoc447]

May I have a copy of that article, too, please?

bodydoc447@aol dot com

Thanks!

Doc

[9.3X62AL]

MT Charlie--

Sorry about that labeling faux pas. I also have a ChiCom Type 54 Tokarev, and it is fine with loads to 1400 FPS using the 85 grain bullets/boolits. Its barrel has a tight neck and wide bore, requiring a ream-out of case necks to fit .311" boolits to match itx groove diameter. FWIW, some of the Chinese surplus ammo I bought with the pistol had .307" j-word bullets weighing 86 grains. The pistol inhales the Winchester White Box loads without a stutter, and accuracy is all right too. That TALL rear sight sends shots pretty high--I was told a while back that Russian practice was to hold on the belt buckle to hit 10-X on a B-27 target at 25 meters. Pretty close, that.

[fatnhappy]

Guys, I'd be more than happy to send you that scan, ......except, I'm out of town. My company sent me to Boston for training. I'll be gone until the 23rd. I actually have the scan on my thumbdrive, but I'm sitting at a public computer at the library, and have no means to upload it at the moment. Maybe singleshot buff can pass it along.

If I don't get a report that it's made its way into everyones hands by christmas, I'll mail it when I get home.

[montana_charlie]

MT Charlie--
Sorry about that labeling faux pas.
So, does that mean you meant to include the Type 54 (instead of the C-96) in the list of pistols that should NOT be used with 'intrepid handloads'?
CM

[singleshotbuff]

Bodydoc,

I'll be happy to forward it to you.

SSB

[Bodydoc447]

Thanks!!

Doc

[9.3X62AL]

Correct, MT. None of the Tokarev variants, which were made at several Soviet Bloc arsenals as well as Chinese models. The load level for these is the 85-86 grain j-words at 1400 FPS. I run my Broomhandle at about 1100-1200 FPS, tops.

HTH.

[olgandalf]

Though I have lots of milsurp ammo for my CZ52 and my recently acquired Yugo M57, I'm trying to reload. I have 115 gr lead bullets at .312, and I have Bullseye, which I use to make 32 S&W long for my 95 Nagant. Is there a load I can make , using these bullets and the Bullseye, for my Yogo Tok. It slugs at .312 or .313. And I'll be using brass formed from 223.

[spqrzilla]

To avoid confusion among readers, the C96 Mauser "Broomhandle" pistol is not chambered for 7.62x25 Tokarev. It is chambered most often for the 7.63 Mauser. However, dimensionally the two cartridges are very close. The 7.62 x 25 Tokarev was loaded to much higher pressures than the 7.63 Mauser.

[troy_mclure]

i am on the hunt for a cz52 or tt33, or variants, which ever is cheaper. i just plan on buying milsurp ammo for it. its pushing the limits of ammo cost/reloading cost.

[Hondo 60]

Have you looked at J&G Sales?

They have 2 different kinds right now.
A Polish & a Romanian

[bruce drake]

I just traded a Turk Mauser for a Romanian TT33 Cugir which had been imported by InterOrdnance a few years back.

A brand new realm for me. My first Warsaw Pact pistol. Exterior looks like a 1903 Browning Hammerless but I'm pretty sure it will be different on the inside.

[iwottopq]

Coincidentally, I was reading an old copy of Handloader today, Oct 1999, with an article on reloading the 7.62 x25. If you'd like I'll scan and send it to you.

Hello fatnhappy...can you send also to me the article??? My mail is iwottopq@libero.it
Thanks in advance...
Nino

[9.3X62AL]

I just traded a Turk Mauser for a Romanian TT33 Cugir which had been imported by InterOrdnance a few years back.

A brand new realm for me. My first Warsaw Pact pistol. Exterior looks like a 1903 Browning Hammerless but I'm pretty sure it will be different on the inside.

The Type 54 Tokarev I have is a close copy of the Colt/Browning toggle link/recoil-operated system from the 1911 series. Its only substantive difference is its sear/disconnector/ejector assembly is a sub-unit that is removable at field-stripping for cleaning and maintenance. It is retained by the slide rails' interface with the receiver's rails. Kind of a trick design, actually.

[bruce drake]

I've read that the surplus loads are firebreathers. I was thinking of loading this a bit lighter to save my brass and make for a nice plinker/trail pistol.

Bruce

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir, some of the milsurp ammo can be quite hot. If it still exists in the known world, Winchester White Box 7.62 x 25 loads gave ~1350 FPS from both the Type 54 and the CZ-52. It uses good-quality Boxer-primed brass that reloads well. I have always shied away from the milsurp ammo in this caliber; my first brass was reworked Winchester 9mm Magnum, and still have a couple hundred of those. Starline is likely "best of breed", and the few Fiocchi cases I've found do well also.

[fatnhappy]

This thread is officially old. In the interim there have been a few changes. The original posting member was banned as a deadbeat thief, I've since had a second child, my family has moved, my mother died, our American President was succeeded by an unqualified buffoon and I've ungraded a few computers.

The probability of my finding the aforementioned article is as low as my opinion of the gutless wonder occupying the White House. Unlike him I will exercise due diligence before calling it quits.

[bruce drake]

Oh my! Tell us how you really feel! :)
Hey, you should feel honored to know that this forum can provide knowledge to fellow shooters over the long span of time! Between you and 9.3x62AL, I think I'll have this TT33 running ribbons on the gunline in short time.

[GhostHawk]

I love my CZ-52, it came to me with a broken firing pin but that was no real sweat to find and replace.

As to Ammo I've been shooting the Privi Partizan as it was the lowest price of the boxer primed brass I could find at the time.
I don't shoot it a lot so I have yet to reload for it.

I think the PPU is cranking out around 1600 fps.

Sounds is worse than the recoil, it has a definite bark to it. But the gun itself seems to be solid as a rock.

If you shoot it a lot watch the rollers on the lock up system. When they start getting loose its time to replace them with some hardened steel rollers.

Go here for parts

http://www.harringtonproducts.com/
Firing pins are 30$, rollers are 18$ site is very good with instructions, pictures and tips.

[fatnhappy]

I have good news and bad news. The bad news, I can't find the scanned file. The good news, I found the issue of handloader in question.

I stopped to glance through a couple other issues, some more than 20 years old. Lord how I miss the likes of Finn Aagaard, Ross Seyfried and Al Miller. One of my favorite articles written by Al Miller was about the 8x57, a cartridge which he held in high esteem and respect from the battlefields of Europe.



Update: I found the scan file. If anyone else would like it please let me know.

[kopperl]

Got a couple of CZ52's I'd part with.
What part of the Gulf are you on? We go to Rockport often.

[bruce drake]

I'll gladly take a copy if you don't mind
bmdrake71@gmail.com

Bruce

[fixit]

check out j,d,jones's experiments in wisper type rounds for heavey bullets in this round. he was using 150s, 180s and maybe heavier in rifles chambered so. cartridges of the world has a write up on this under wildcat or proprietary catridges.

[GhostHawk]

Love a copy, billj69@gmail.com, and thank you!

[jrayborn]

I'd take a copy if it's no trouble fatnhappy. Thank you.
jrayborn AT myfairpoint.net

[Cowboy_Dan]

fatnhappy, in case you didn't see/follow my PM, I would love a copy of this.

mauckdan[at]gmail[dot]com

[GhostHawk]

Got mine and thank you VERY much.

Even just knowing which powders to look for for this cartridge is a big help.
Although I was surprised to see 10 grains of IMR 4227 being listed.

Considering how how hard pistol powders are to find right now I may go with the 4227 as I've seen it available several times in different locations in the last couple weeks.

[Dale in Louisiana]

I'd like a copy:

tanker@mostlycajun.com

dale in Louisiana

[dpoe001]

would i also be able to get a copy
dpoe001@yahoo.com

[billybadmedicine]

I would like a copy please
billybadmedicine@yahoo.com

[dpoe001]

wow mine slugs at .310 i am using lc 223 resized and 6.2 grain blue dot.Thank you for the article it was a great read!

[Lespem1]

I would also love a copy of mentioned article
lespem1@yahoo.ca
thanks in advance

[lejuch]

Fatnhappy,
i would greatly appreciate a copy of file referred to in this thread
lejuch2@gmail.com
thanks in advance

[HARRYMPOPE]

I load the ideal 115g 3118 over 4g of bulls-eye(or 4.5 unique) velocity is 1250 in the pps43.the 311316 is also accurate.

[.30Calibre]

Thanks to fatnhappy for providing this interesting info.

Shoot a lot of .30Mau (cast) here, but it's always interesting to see published .30Tok load data to compare charges with. Folks use some heavier projectiles loading with the Tokarev. The heaviest boolit I've ever gone up to in the C96 is a 95gr cast LSWC (meant for .32cal applications) sized down to .309dia to fit the C96 bore lit with a 5.7gr charge of AA7; this is fairly light, just (slightly more than) enough to cycle and lock open. The closest this article comes is a 100gr JHP projectile over 6.5gr of AA7.

Now I ain't sayin' I'm fixin' to do it, but would it pound the C96 more to use the 110gr projectiles? Just wondering out loud here for opinions and hoping to better understand conceptually: how would the extra 15grains of projectile weight effect the equation in the Broomhandle?

[farside]

If possible, I would love a copy of the article, fatnhappy! I'm reforming 223 brass for my Russian TT33, and am currently working on loads with 700x. Any more info is much appreciated. :)
Phil

[Tackleberry41]

I would like a copy for reference, expand the powders I can use. rmxcrackshot@yahoo.com

[OuchHot!]

If not too much trouble, I would also like a copy of the article. rdhcaiATmsn.com
thank you very much!

[twisted sister]

Hi fatnhappy, I am new to this forum and I am new to reloading. I am really interested in that article from oct /Nov 1999 in handloader magazine as I have a Romanian tokarev. I know it has been several years since this was first posted but is it possible to receive a copy of this article and how would I go about it . Thanks TS

[carlsonwayne]

If a copy of that article is still available, I would love and appreciate a copy. sw62944@gmail.com Thanks in advance!?

[Ricochet]

Continuing thread necromancy, fatnhappy, if you're still around and still have that article I'd like to see it too. Thanks! SlidePicker@gmail.com

[LIMPINGJ]

I just recently got a Tok so am looking to load for it. I would like a copy if you still have it. JIM38WCF@GMAIL.COM

[GONRA]

GONRA hasa 7.62x25 Tokarev tracer handload that may (or may NOT) be of interest:

Czech M52 pistol with heavier Wolff recoil spring and Harrington parts that improve trigger pull.
RCBS 7.62x25 Tokarev dies purchased decades ago when they were a "special purchase" item.

New (purchased decades ago) Starline 7.62x25 *---* brass, chamfered case mouths.
Winchester small pistol primers.
Surplus (got 'em in 1990's?) ORANGE tip 98-99 grain US Carbine bullets.
(Stored in sealed paint can!)
Loaded cartridge 1.372 inch OAL.
5.5 and 6.0 grains 800X powder both function Just Fine.
(4 o'clock 8-20 feet ejection.)

Shot 8 rds. each load yesterday 01/25/2017 (SNOWY, COLD)
on my 105 Bradford County acres up in PA.
Surprise: All 16 rds. traced!

[eb in oregon]

Coincidentally, I was reading an old copy of Handloader today, Oct 1999, with an article on reloading the 7.62 x25. If you'd like I'll scan and send it to you.

So, old thread, but what did you think of the article? Actually I'm going to be trying some H110 soon with 110 RNSP's and Speer 110 HP's as I use the same bullets in the M1 Carbine and I no longer use cast bullets in the M1 Carbine due to issues of lead being blown into the gas piston system. I do load some lead bullets for use in a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine, which work superbly in the 7.62x25, but I'm trying to limit the number of different type bullets I keep in stock.

Edit: If anyone is still desiring a copy of the article of October/November 1999 "Handloader" I can try to send a "zipfile" via email.

[Outpost75]

Velocity Test Data for 7.62x25 in TT33 Pistol

Handloads in Starline cases with CCI500 primers

Ammunition Description___________Vel@15ft., Sd, ES n=10
________________________________TT33, 4.6”

Romanian Type P Ball, Factory 22, 1984____1461 fps, 27 Sd, 76ES
Yugoslav PPU Ball,_____________________1310, 26 Sd, 66ES
Hornady 86-grain SP, 7.4 grs. AutoComp___1353, 20, 71
Accurate 31-100T, 7.4 grs. AutoComp_____1450, 16, 50
Accurate 31-087B, 5.3 grs. Bullseye_______1433, 28, 71
Accurate 31-087B, 10.8 grs. #2400_______1321, 11, 32
Norma 93-gr. FMJ .307”, 10.8 grs. #2400__1277, 18, 44

233770233772

233773233774

[Wayne Dobbs]

I bet those penetrate a very long ways in flesh!

[Bigger behind the trigger]

Coincidentally, I was reading an old copy of Handloader today, Oct 1999, with an article on reloading the 7.62 x25. If you'd like I'll scan and send it to you.
Hi my name is Grant A. I would love a copy of the load data. My email is gallenatkinson@gmail.com. I just bought a M-57 and I order some Starline brass and 500 90 gn hp. I have data but it's not much. Thank you and Happy Shooting.

[geseastrand]

I would also be eternally grateful for a copy of the article if anybody could make that happen. seastrandgeoff at yahoo.com Thanks!!!

[Conditor22]

geseastrand welcome to cast boolits

https://www.makarov.com/tokloaddata.html

Lyman#4
https://i.imgur.com/hsXYkBo.jpg

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I wish Lyman would provide separate data for .30 Mauser from 7.65x25 for Tok and CZ-52.

[jdfoxinc]

The top end around 1300 fps is 7.62x25 range.

[Outpost75]

The top end around 1300 fps is 7.62x25 range.

I found the Lyman loads would not cycle my Cz52. I had to increase them a bit.

Refer back to my post #57 in this thread.

[Conditor22]

The top end around 1300 fps is 7.62x25 range.

I've been loading around the 1450 range to get good accuracy in an M57,

I'm guessing that Outpost75's load of 5.5 gr of BE is around the same velocity.

the Tokarev is a hot little round

European factory Ammo is faster.

Sellier & Bellot Ammunition 7.62x25mm Tokarev 85 Grain Full Metal Jacket
Muzzle Velocity 1647 Feet Per Second

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100047829/sellier-and-bellot-ammunition-762x25mm-tokarev-85-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-50

the PPS-43C Submachine Gun 7.62x25mm was one of the most popular in WWII. lightweight, light ammo (you could easily carry more) with 200M accuracy. easily penetrates lite body armor.

the PPS-43C Submachine Gun 7.62x25mm is fun to shoot :) (with proper license)

**classic firearms is selling the PPS-43 modified to a semi-auto pistol

[charlie b]

I wish Lyman would provide separate data for .30 Mauser from 7.65x25 for Tok and CZ-52.

You mean like this. From 45th Lyman manual.

241892

Interesting that these loads are more powder and less velocity than above.