Subsonic loads

[NSP64]

I was thinking of some subsonic loads for my .308 bolt gun. I did some searching but everything was heavy boolit fast powder. I was thinking soupcan over trailboss? or maybe unique? I have a soupcan mold with one modded cavity for plain base boolits.
I know that for heavy slow boolits you need a fast twist, mine has 1/10, so I figured short soupcan would stabilize easily enough.

[NickSS]

I have tried a 31108 115 gr Lyman sized to .311 over 5 gr of Red Dot in a 308 sounds like a 22 RF and shoots well in a couple of 308s I have tried them in.

[excess650]

The Lee 311-100-2R works for me. Start at 2.0gr Bullseye, Red Dot, Solo 1000, Clays, 700x, WST, WW231, etc and work up 1/2gr at a time until you get or lose accuracy at the distance you want to shoot. Small charges of fast burning charges may well be consumed prior to the bullet exiting the muzzle, so will be quiet. A boolit that is snug in the neck of an unsized case is more apt to seal at these low pressures.

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest you use Bullseye for such loads. Start at 5 gr and work down until the velocity level you want is reached. With that big flat nose you'll want to be under 1050 fps before the air moving around the bullet goes subsonic and it doesn't "crack". When working down watch the target very carefully noting that every shot is hitting the target. If there is no new hole or you have any question at all whether the bullet hit the target check the bore for a stuck bullet. Also cast them very soft and use a soft lube like Javelina or LLA. I push cast bullets down to 300 fps or so doing such including the .308W. Well fire formed cases and drilled flash holes (#30 or #28 drill) will keep the case shoulders from setting back after several firings.

Larry Gibson

[gnoahhh]

Larry, have you worked with tiny sub-100 grain designs in your experiments with sub-sonic loads? The reason I ask is I acquired a Lyman 313249 85gr. RN mold for loading .32ACP and .32 S&W Longs and my thoughts ran toward using it for sub-sonic tin can plinkers in various .30/30 and .303 Savage M1899s. (Provided the lube grooves don't get swaged shut when sizing them down to .311) Does this stubby design perhaps present unique problems that would make my normal 100-150 grain PB plinkers a better choice? 40+ years of casting and I'm still discovering stuff I never thought of!

[nanuk]

if the boolit can fit inside a Fired case, there should be no need to size??

[NSP64]

I dont have bullseye but I do have 231 and univesal clays.
Would I be better off using a 150 gr rn design?

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, have you worked with tiny sub-100 grain designs in your experiments with sub-sonic loads? The reason I ask is I acquired a Lyman 313249 85gr. RN mold for loading .32ACP and .32 S&W Longs and my thoughts ran toward using it for sub-sonic tin can plinkers in various .30/30 and .303 Savage M1899s. (Provided the lube grooves don't get swaged shut when sizing them down to .311) Does this stubby design perhaps present unique problems that would make my normal 100-150 grain PB plinkers a better choice? 40+ years of casting and I'm still discovering stuff I never thought of!

I regularly shoot Lee's TL314-90-SWCs over 3.2 gr of Bullseye in .308Ws and other similar cartridges (.30 & .31s) up through the '06. I use 2.7 gr in the 30-30 and lessor capacity cases. Velocity runs 800 -950 fps depending on barrel length and cartridge. accuracy is generall 1"+ at 50 yards. This is an excellent load and one I highly recommend; no recoil and very little noise. I also have a 311227 (90 gr RN) but since the Lee mould is a 6 cavity vs 2 cavity for the Lyman guess which I use most often?

The Lee bullets drop .314 - .315 depending on alloy and i TL them with LLA and push base first (keeps the base square) through a .314 sizer. Those work fine for my .32 revolvers and .31 cal rifles. I will push them nose 1st through a .311 sizer for the .30 cals. With the lube on them the lube grooves are swaged into the bullet on sizing and not wiped away (suggest you try that; lube them first before sizing). I also suggest pushing them through base first.

Be warned; this is a very addicting load. Do not let your wife or kids shoot these loads if you want to do other than cast, load and clean guns with no shooting for you:???:

Larry Gibson

[GabbyM]

1-10" twist has stabilized the RCBS 30-180-FN at sub sonic velocity in the rifle we tried it in. That bullet from my mould drops just at 200 grains from soft lead. It took a Kentucky deer from a custom Mauser in 7.62x39mm loaded sub sonic. Shot went clear though with large exit hole. Deer two stepped after the heart lung shot. Not sure if the bullet expanded or yawed. Maybe a little of both.

[gnoahhh]

Thanks Larry. No wife, no kids, so I can have them all to myself!

[excess650]

I dont have bullseye but I do have 231 and univesal clays.
Would I be better off using a 150 gr rn design?

Both of those powders will work. 231 is the quicker burning of the two, so will take less powder than Universal which is similar to Unique.

I have a 140gr plain base that I use in the 30-30 and it likes 6.0gr Universal, but I doubt its subsonic. It is relatively quiet, soft recoiling, and accurate.

100gr vs 150gr? Given similar velocity, and provided accuracy is suitable, the lighter projectile will yield a softer recoil impulse and make it easier to hit as less follow through will be required. We're splitting hairs here.:popcorn:

[excess650]

if the boolit can fit inside a Fired case, there should be no need to size??

That will work to a point. If the boolit is too undersize, it won't stay in place, so pressure and velocity will vary, and accuracy will suffer. I've shot 30-30s and 32-20s numerous times without resizing, but was careful about handling the rounds, single feeding, etc. Neck sizing, partial sizing, or using a collet die will minimize working of brass. Cat sneeze loads aren't going to expand cases anyway.

Larry mentions drilling the flash hloes oversize so the primer force goes into the case rather than setting the shoulder back on the case. This shouldn't be necessary on rimmed cases, but probably not a bad idea either.

My answer above was related to sizing cases, obviously, but I may have misunderstood. If the boolit as cast will fit in the neck of a fired case, it (the boolit)shouldn't need sizing, IMO. I generally shoot closer to what will chamber than worring about .001" over groove diameter. The closer the boolit fit in the throat, the less apt a load will be to gas cut the boolit.

[NSP64]

We're splitting hares here.:popcorn:

Exactly what I would like to do. Lol
Ok , so I will load up some with universal, unique, and 231. Under some soupcans, 150gr, and 180gr boolits. Report to follow.

[Bulltipper]

I picked up my new YHM .308 suppressor on Friday. I shot full house thru it Saturday. I began fooling around with Subsonic stuff on Sunday. Yeah. Well I had the Chrony out and had sacrificed some 200gr SPBT to the cause. I got 1100fps with 9.6 gr Unique. No supersonic crack and I live at about 2500' MSL. 9.7 grains gave a SS crack. I had researched the 300 whisper last night to make sure I was stabilizing that bullet through the can and I learned that a 1 in 10 twist will stabilize up to a 220 grain bullet at subsonic speeds according to the website at SSK industries. they went to a 1 in 8 to stabilize over 220 grain bullets at sub sonic speeds. I am having a blast playing with this thing! God love the Free State of Oregon and our own good Jackson County Sherriff Mike Winters!!

[fixit]

i've been doing cat sneeze (that's what the finn's call them) loads for some time! they can be a lot of fun, considering at the extreme bottom end, the firing pin striking the primer on my finnish mosin nagant makes more noise than the gun going off!! most of my loads go between 1 and 3 grains of red dot, with either a 90 grain 32 wad cutter or a 180 grain 30 cal gas check, minus the check, both from lee molds. the 180 with 2.5 of the r.d. will penetrate a 1.25 treated lumber decking board at 50 yards!!