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View Full Version : Who Knows What It Was (and tell me not to buy it)



armed_partisan
04-01-2011, 10:36 PM
Greetings all. For Spring Break, I went down to see my dad in Fort Pierce, FL. I was planning on doing some Kayaking, but the weather reports all said it would be thunderstorms all three days of my visit, so in interest in saving gas, I left my Kayak behind. Since it was BRIGHT AND SUNNY the whole time, I was super bummed, so my dad took me on a tour of all the local gun stores. He doesn't really like guns, but he's a good sport.

After much searching around in some very well stocked places in Port St. Lucie and Stuart, I found an apparently sporterized rifle in a shop that I thought was absolutely exquisite. It was a bolt action rifle with a tuned down butterknife handle, a full-length Mannlicher style stock, hand cut checkering on the wrist and forend, a pistol grip that was carved and capped. Monte Carlo stock.

It had a checkered plastic butt plate, and various fine engravings in several places on the steel, including patterns around the circumference of the barrel near the receiver, and a stippled top-strap to reduce glare. It had a single notch rear sight and a high front sight. Single Trigger (as I recall). The tag said it was $700 and said it was 9mm (which I thought was odd, but it was definitely a larger than .30 bore, but it could have been an 8mm). It was cock on opening, and had a Mauser 98 style wing safety, and bolt removal was as on all 98 Mausers I've seen.

BUT the receiver had sparse markings, but one that was clearly present said "Mod.88.9." There were no caliber markings that I could detect, and other than the confusing "9mm" designation on the tag, I have no idea what caliber it was.

The barrel was marked "L. Bayerl Regensburg", SN was "#505". From the little I've been able to learn online, it's made by Ludwig Bayerl of Regensburg, Bavaria, Germany. This is clearly a very fine, custom rifle, and while $700 isn't cheap, I've seen comparable rifles go for much more. The rifling looked good and the bore was bright. Does anybody know anything about this company? Was it a custom house or an individual? Any idea on what a fair price on this rifle would be?

Idaho Sharpshooter
04-02-2011, 02:05 PM
9x57?

Rich

armed_partisan
04-02-2011, 11:16 PM
I'm mostly curious about the maker. If it's in any of a number of calibers, I'd be interested, but I don't know if it's worth $700 or not. I wish I had brought my camera with me.

truckjohn
04-02-2011, 11:35 PM
9.3x57mm was a "Common" German hunting cartridge.... They aren't allowed to own "Military" cartridges for private use - so they wildcatted up the 9.3x57 out of the 8mm Mauser cartridge... and it became a popular commercial hunting cartridge in Europe. Apparently, many of them were re-bored from 8mm out to the 9.3mm... and off they went.

It might be one of those... but it may not be..... Personally... If I could swing it, I would like to have a gunsmith identify the specific cartridge it's chambered for..... You would probably rather not find out it's chambered in some obscure German wildcat cartridge that only had 1-set of dies ever made for it.. and they were lost 50 years ago....

Thanks

MtGun44
04-02-2011, 11:44 PM
Likely a high end German sporting rifle brought back as a war trophy from WW2. GIs basically
cleaned out the country of all sporting arms that they could find. The death rate of WW2
vets is astronomically high these days, I expect that their heirs are selling off their war
trophies steadily.

Bill

armed_partisan
04-03-2011, 12:01 AM
I thought it might be any of dozens of different 9mm or 9.3mm rifle cartridges, so I didn't try to venture a guess. If it's rare, it's something I don't have, but that's one reason I buy things. I was intrigued to think that it might be a war trophy, but if it's really a sporter built on a Mauser Model 88 action, it could be pre-WWI, and before WWI, German built rifles were still very popular in much of the US. Either way, I was very intrigued, but since everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in that shop was EXTREMELY overpriced, I don't want to take a bath on a so-so quality rifle from a mediocre manufacturer who imported these cheapo conversions in the early 1960's based on surplused 98's they found out in fields.

Has nobody heard of Ludwig Bayerl? It looked a little like the one on this page, but with the added features mentioned in my first post:
http://www.icollector.com/ERFURT-K-98-Mauser-commercial-sporting-rifle-dated-1916-1294-8mm-24-barrel-re-blued-finish_i8649760

Combat Diver
04-03-2011, 01:05 AM
Regensburg is a quiet little German town. Visted it a many times when stationed in Bad Tolz, Germany. A 9x57 can be the equivant of a .358 Winchester (9x51) if on a 98 action or down loaded to .35 Remington in a 88'.

CD

x101airborne
04-03-2011, 09:49 PM
I say if you like it, take it home. My wife would agree.

MtGun44
04-03-2011, 11:48 PM
Did the action have a split rear bridge? Here are two pix of a Model 88 Commission rifle action.
Note that it has the wing type safety and appears to have the bolt stop in the same location
as in Mauser M93 and M98 actions.

If it is a Model 88, it would not be something to whomp up hot loads with but may be a perfect cast
boolit rifle with the mild 10 gr Unique, 16 gr of 2400 (1400-1700 fps depending on bore diam
and boolit wt) class of loads. 9 mm or 9.3 are both large bores that should be very forgiving
for cast boolit work. Also, it should be a good deer cartridge at even the low pressure
cast boolit velocities, hotter than a .38-55, probably.

http://www.texastradingpost.com/m88/conversionside.jpg

http://www.texastradingpost.com/m88/conversiontop.jpg

Bill

armed_partisan
04-04-2011, 06:42 AM
It did NOT have a split bridge, so it must have been a 98 action, but it was CLEARLY marked "88.9." which is very odd. It looked like it was polished to remove the original markings on it, so that's weird as heck!

mto7464
04-06-2011, 10:18 AM
here is one I picked up. It is a custom post war job.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?198568-My-new-k98-bringback-%28pics%29

MtGun44
04-08-2011, 05:41 PM
Can't view them.

Bill

darwinmauser
04-10-2011, 01:24 AM
If it's got a plastic butt plate it's not that old . On the other hand if it's got a horn butt plate that would change things a bit. Pictures would be nice ,without them we're only guessing at what it is.

KCSO
04-15-2011, 02:16 PM
That PLASTIC but may actually be horn. The quick test is to heat a pin and stick it in and see if it sinks in. The rifle you describe sounds like a common 88 sporting rifle offered in 7,8 and 9MM and can be referenced in Arms of the World 1911. If you look there you will most likely find a picture of the gun. The 9MM or 9x57 was a common variation of the 8MM Mauser and was offered quite early, even before the Treaty restrictions of 1919. I will try and scan in a couple pages for you.

armed_partisan
04-16-2011, 05:23 PM
Thanks fellas. I wish I had gotten pictures of it, but it's about two and a half hours south of where I live, so I don't think I'm gonna get it unless it just so happens to still be there the next time I'm down that way. Then it's fate!