Swaging bullets for the 308 & 50 bmg

[bobthenailer]

Im looking into swaging jacketed bullets for a friends 30 cal & 50 cal BMGs !
Ive gotten the info from Corbin . I just wanted to know if anyone else has done it and what were there results or recomedations ?

[BLASTER62]

I swage 223 308 6.5 44 45 458 on a Corbin Hydro Press as well as a couple of his smaller presses, to tool up for 50 cal you need a hydro press, the smaller cal's are no problem. you cant beat commercial co's on price unless you build special or out of production bullets. then you have the problem of getting lead & copper at a good price, and lots of it. Small S press & C&H are good for personal use and some sale's to other people. Beside that its fun to make to make your own Boolits.

[bohica2xo]

It takes a certain dedication (and powered presses!) to swage bullets for a beltfed MG.

I made bullets for my M60 ammo, but never bothered to for the 50 BMG. Even a few years ago it was still cheap enough to shoot surplus / pulled / demilled bullets & ammo in .50 that it was not worth the effort. When the pulldown stuff got hard to find, I turned bullets instead.

Today, the price of projectiles has driven many new people to the swaging idea. Big bore (.338 & up) rifle bullets priced above a dollar each, and some handgun stuff over a buck each as well has changed things.

You will need a hydraulic press if you want to make 50 BMG bullets. That or a 15 ton punch press with an unusually long stroke.

The 50 bullet is right on the edge cost wise. If you pick up a small screw machine cheap (like a B&S OO) you can make 50's from bar stock. I shot a bunch of 11L14 steel bullets through my M2HB. The price of the steel bar is much lower than the copper & lead for conventional bullets. The machine runs more or less on it's own, and the bullets are very accurate.


B.

[bobthenailer]

Thanks for the replies ! Keep them comeing
MY friend ownes a machine shop so turning the bullets could be a option.
He did say something about there's a steel alloy with some amount of lead in it and its slipper than reg steel ? but we dont know if its useable

[BwBrown]

I would think that with a steel turned bullet, the issue would not be "slippery" but "HARDNESS"
Seems as though a solid steel slug would serve to forge the lands right out of the barrel?

Maybe with a sabot it would work.
Bob

[BT Sniper]

Well........ swaging 308 bullets is fairly easy. Lots of info here posted on that project. As for the 50 BMG.. I have'nt tried it yet but I sure would like to just need a big powerful press! Yes probalby not cost efective yet for the 50 but it sure would be COOL! Probably less then those $3 a piece A-Max bullets though.

[bohica2xo]

We shoot a lot of steel bullets in 50 BMG. As long as the bullets are soft, and have driving bands they are fine. More than one FCSA match shooter has taken home a trophy with a steel bullet.

11L14 is a very ductile leaded screw machine stock. From MG barrels with Stellite / Hard Chrome bores, they are great.

Free machining brass is also good, but more expensive.

If you plan to machine bullets, scale up a Barnes TSX 30 cal bullet. The relief grooves or driving bands reduce bore drag & give the solid material a way to handle the displacement from the rifling. The shape is good, so just scale it up.

Most foreign ammo is steel jacketed. Some US 30 cal stuff was as well. 7.62 x 39, 7.62 x 54, 8 x 57 - all steel jacketed. All of the current Tula or Wolf 223 ammo is steel jacketed too - even the 62 grain HP's. Barrels tolerate it just fine.

B.

[rbt50]

i make and sell 50 bmg and do it on a corbin hydro press.

[BwBrown]

"as the bullets are soft, and have driving bands"

Ah... driving bands - no steel against steel - I stand corrected - or at the least, educated.
Silly me pictured a steel bullet trying to engage the rifling, wiping lands and grooves into oblivion.
Thanks,
Bob

[Storydude]

"as the bullets are soft, and have driving bands"

Ah... driving bands - no steel against steel - I stand corrected - or at the least, educated.
Silly me pictured a steel bullet trying to engage the rifling, wiping lands and grooves into oblivion.
Thanks,
Bob

Not all steels are Rc65. ;)

Some are very very soft. And yes, he;s talking about steel on steel.

A Ledaloy grade with 10+% Lead in it will deform very nicely and just about as easy as a hard copper bullet.

[bohica2xo]

yup, steel on steel.

I put 2500 12L14 .224 diameter machined bullets down an M16 barrel to prove velocity was not an issue either. Barrel was just fine.

I would not recommend doing this with a soft or low alloy barrel - like an original 1886 Winchester or 1873 Colt.

Machinegun barrels are made to tke a beating. A barrel made from 4150, heat treated to spec & chrome lined will shoot soft steel all day long.

B

[lup]

I swage .510 bullets for 50bmg in a RCE multiswage hydro press.

commercial jackets and 7mm mag jackets.

lead core and lead/tungsten frangibles


not possible in a hand press using conventional techniques. (I did find a way to make acceptable projectiles by using the 7mm mag brass as a starter, shearing off the belt, running the case through a reducing die, filling the case with frangible material, forming the point in stages and then running the completed bullet through a sizing die again to ensure roundness and shank size. (Too much work unless you don't have access to a power press.)


excellent results on the target with 600 - 850 grain bullets.
(Frangible bullets often solved the penetration problems at ranges that had caliber restrictions)

[KTN]

I have a question about .50 BMG bullets.
How thick should jacket walls be ?
I'm thinking about drawing from 0.03"-0.04" brass sheet. Would it hold together ?


Kaj

[kneerg]

lup
where do you get your commercial jackets for the 50?

Kevin

[bobthenailer]

Thanks for the responce from everyone !!
after doing some more research and talking to Corbin and Linja barrels ,We have decided to turn our bullets from 11L17 9/16 round bar stock on a full automatic including stock feed cnc machine . we already have the machine to use and to swage we would have to invest over $6.000 in equipment and do everything by hand.
Thanks Bob !

[bohica2xo]

Good to hear back from you.

If you have a machine with a bar feeder, you are all set - no need to buy a swage tool at all.

The 50 BMG loves turned steel bullets. Have fun!

B.

[BT Sniper]

Would love to see some pics of finished bullets when you get around to it.

Great screen name too by the way.

Swage, or Turn ON!

BT

[lup]

lup
where do you get your commercial jackets for the 50?

Kevin

Northwest Custom Projectile
or Bob Sauter

[bobthenailer]

Not compleatly sure as we have to make some, but we figure we can make bullets for around 32 to 40 cents each , our cost .depending on lost material when turning.

[Mayor]

I swage .510 bullets for 50bmg in a RCE multiswage hydro press.

commercial jackets and 7mm mag jackets.

lead core and lead/tungsten frangibles


not possible in a hand press using conventional techniques. (I did find a way to make acceptable projectiles by using the 7mm mag brass as a starter, shearing off the belt, running the case through a reducing die, filling the case with frangible material, forming the point in stages and then running the completed bullet through a sizing die again to ensure roundness and shank size. (Too much work unless you don't have access to a power press.)


excellent results on the target with 600 - 850 grain bullets.
(Frangible bullets often solved the penetration problems at ranges that had caliber restrictions)

lup

Tell me more PLEASE!
I am interested in the frangibles. Actually very interested in a soft point or hollow point that will expand for hunting purposes also.........

[lup]

I can't speak to making hunting bullets since I don't hunt dinosaurs. :)

For frangibles, I've been pressing graphite coated lead and tungsten shot into the jackets, point forming and using a plastic ball to close the end.

They're far less likely to ricochet which my ranges appreciate.

[Mayor]

The frangibles sound interesting.....
No dinosaurs here but three Hogs in the last couple of months weighing from 480 to 578 pounds. Multiple shots just to stop them and more than one coup de grace:Fire:

I have a blind where I regularly see large pigs and I am itching to shoot one with the AR50. Not worrying about (or at least minimizing the worry about) the projectile after it passes through is of utmost importance to me.

How do you feel about selling me enough frangibles to wotk up some data with?

[Mayor]

lup

Ya there?

[BT Sniper]

I like where this is going! 7mm mag cases with rim turned of and filled with 600 grains of lead shot should do quite the number to a large hog:Fire:

[Mayor]

I like where this is going! 7mm mag cases with rim turned of and filled with 600 grains of lead shot should do quite the number to a large hog:Fire:

My thought exactly but I can't get replies to any of my inquiries here.
Shot 8 more hogs last night, finished each off with 12 gauge slugs (the Lyman "pellet" shaped ones) and found that when cast of WW and pushed to about 1400FPS they will shoot all the way through a 200 pounder............Fun as hell chasing them in the jeep with three guys shooting 10 round auto loading shotguns with bucksot though:drinks:

[HHI 812]

I am looking for advice and/or ideas on a .510" bullet that would expand from a subsonic velocity for hunting. My cartridge uses a 50AE case, and I now shoot M33 BMG pulled bullets at subsonic for plinking.

[Gunnut 45/454]

I'm sorry but if your wanting cheap 50 BMG rounds the only option is to cast a GC Bullet. As been noted by all here producing a swagged bullet is big money anyway you cut it. Maybe go paper patched if you must get full velocity rounds.

[HHI 812]

Would paper patch stop leading on a pure soft lead bullet?

[Gunnut 45/454]

HHI812
Pure lead? Probably, but harder alloy most definately. A 50BMG full bore load is 2700 fps a harder alloy paper patched should be doable. In an automatic questionable after you heat the barrel up. You have to shoot a pretty hard bullet.

[midnight]

My experience with cast bullets in the BMG is with conventionally lubed ones. I have used both linotype and wheelweights. My linotype bullets will shoot <1 moa at 2100 fps. When I push them to 2300 fps, groups open up to about 4 moa at 100 yds. I tried wheel weight bullets at 2100 fps but couldn't keep 10 shots on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. The wheel weight bullet does not appear to be strong enough so I'm not sure a soft lead paper patched bullet would be strong enough either. My bullets range from 833gr to 965gr. Haven't shot the cast much since I started swaging a 12 s ojive bullet with 1.770 jackets from RCE. I make either a flat base or RBT, open tip or lead tip of from about 700 to 800 gr using a soft lead core. A hydraulic press is a must on a bullet this big. I use a RCE HydraSwage. Soon I will be making copper tubing jackets for it. It is a very, very, very expensive proposition. I only do it because I want to and I can. I may try the lead shot core idea if I can get them balanced well enough to shoot well.

Bob

[Mayor]

I'm sorry but if your wanting cheap 50 BMG rounds the only option is to cast a GC Bullet. As been noted by all here producing a swagged bullet is big money anyway you cut it. Maybe go paper patched if you must get full velocity rounds.


I wasn't looking for "Cheap 50BMG rounds".........just looking for something that will expand on pigs and hopefully eliminate some richochet issues.

Maybe you are referring to someone elses post?

[HHI 812]

My cartridge(50AE opened to .510", the way it was originally designed)was developed in this case, only for subsonic suppressor velocities, with the heavy 50 BMG bullets, although been able to get lighter 460 gr bullets to 1400 fps. Don't really want more. Wanted a heavy soft bullet, to expand on game, at around 950 fps muzzle velocity. I have a fast 1:8 twist, and concerned with cast bullets taking a while before it grabs rifling fast twist.

[Mayor]

My cartridge(50AE)was developed only for subsonic suppressor velocities, with the heavy 50 BMG bullets, although been able to get lighter 460 gr bullets to 1400 fps. Don't really want more. Wanted the heavy to expand at around 950 fps muzzle velocity.

I would look into a custom Hollow Point mould for this if I were you. Bernie at Old West Moulds would be a good candidate as he likes to experiment........

[Gunnut 45/454]

Midnight so what is the twist rate of your 50? I thought they were pretty slow rates like 1:10, 12"? If they are 1:9 or faster then I could see why you'd have a problem with faster push. To much speed on a big hunk of lead. Any defect in the cast would show up as yours did .

[midnight]

I am quite sure the twist in my BMG is 1:15. Another reason I have been reluctant to use paper patched bullets is the muzzle brake. I am afraid paper would be certain to lodge in the brake and destroy accuracy of subsequent shots if not completely removed. No way am I going to shoot the beast without the brake.

Bob

[DukeInFlorida]

I'm still saving for my 50 BMG gun, but have all of the accessories to feed it:
Brass
Powder
Press with dies
Swede Nelson's amazing 830 grain group buy mold - I plan on running these in pure linotype. The other option was to water drop wheel weight alloy, but I have enough LINO to make a LOT of projectiles. They will be lubed with Ben's Red or Carnauba Red. They are also gas checked.

Several other people who fire the same cast boolit report great success with the mold.

I'm not expecting to ever be able to swage these with my RockChucker.