"small smelt..."

[exile]

Smelted my first lead yesterday, in a Lee 4 pound pot. Bet I'm the first guy on this forum to do that. Well, it is what I have. I have a couple of questions, will probably have a million more.

1. My second batch had blue and purple dross. What's up with that?

2. What is a good lube for the mold that I can buy locally? I plan to use Lee liguid Alox, Johnson's Paste Wax and mineral spirits to tumble lube so I have that covered. (Could I use RCBS case lube, I have some of that?)

3. Can I fill the pot with soapy water to clean it provided I start with a cold pot, plug it in and let it heat up, or will that cause a lead explosion?

4. I have all new molds, so I want to clean them with mineral spirits or something? Do I need to take the mold off the handles to clean them? If so, how do I do that?

5. My new .358 gas check mold does not close properly. If I turn it upside down to close it, it does o.k., but if closed right side up, the mold blocks are about 1/8th of an inch off. I can get them to close but I have to do it by hand. My other molds just do so naturally. (Midway sent me a "we want you back discount, so this mold only cost me $ 17.15. I would rather not send it back if I don't have to. Any suggestions?

6. I am using Franford Arsenal flux (white granular stuff). I used just a pinch between finger and thumb and did it three times. Is that about right, not enough, too much? My ingots (all five of them) look pretty clean.

Don't laugh too hard about my smelting pot, it is about the size of a large coffee cup. Hey at least I am getting started, I have been shooting commercially cast boolits for years.

I just bought a Lee 2 cavity .358 gas check mold so I am going to start with that and the Lee 90 grain TL mold for my SP-101 in .327 Federal. Those are 2 boolits I cannot buy locally, so there you go.

After being on this forum for years, here come the questions!

Thanks.

exile:happy dance:

[exile]

:happy dance:Not related, but thought I would pass this on, my latest Cabela's flyer lists CCI small rifle primers on sale for $ 19.99. # 400 I think. Wish I still had my Savage .223 but I don't.

exile

[44fanatic]

Nope, your not the first guy...did my first smelt in a Lee 4lb'er. No WW, but filled it up with sinkers and some damaged Jbullets I had sitting around. Had a scare when the the tinsel fairy jumped out of 7mm hollow points.

[clodhopper]

Wow so many questions! The only dumb question is the one you don't ask,
So I will cover a few.
The colors you are getting are from lead oxydizing, either to much heat or hot for to long.
I cannot name a good lube purchased locally, I tried many before useing bullplate all have been inferior to bullplate it's avaliable from the Bullshop found on this web site.
I would not use soap water, due to rust and wetting the electric parts. just brush the pot out when cool. No steam explosin will happen when you start with a cold pot. Steam explosions happen when you put water in moulten lead.
I boil new moulds in soapy water then swab the inside with denatured alcohol. it still takes many cycles to get them working good.
Try setting the base of your .358 moulds on something flat to align the blocks, then close them.
Lubing the allingment pins and ridge with bullplate could help this too.
If you can get the crud to come to the surface and off your alloy you are useing enough flux.
Big fan of saw dust here.
Order some bull plate it will take some time to get to you but well worth it.
If you have to cast before getting bullplate the spru plate needs lube around the screw to avoid galling.

[exile]

Thanks. Glad I'm not the only guy with a Lee 4 lb. pot. Pot too hot? What a relief that is easy to fix, I had it turned up to 7, guess I'll turn it down to 6 and try that. Makes sense, since it happened on the second round.

So, the sense I am getting is that my mold is not defective, just troublesome? When I close it normally, the opposite side hits the sprue plate when closing, but it mates up if you mess with it.

I was looking in the Midway catalogue this morning, looks like Lee does not have a 10lb pot that is not bottom pour, but surprisingly the Lyman 10 lb. pot is almost as cheap as the Lee 4 lb. pot, so maybe I will get one of those.

Thanks for not making fun of my pot! Over and out.

exile:happy dance:

[exile]

:happy dance:I guess I still need to ask more questions.

I am still not sure if I have to take the mold off the handles to clean it. How do I do that? Probably a really stupid question, but I don't want to damage the mold.

What about an o.k. mold lube I can purchase locally until I can get the funds for Bullplate?

Thanks again.

exile

[R.M.]

The colors you're getting are from pure, or close to it lead. You don't get it from alloyed lead. Too hot, maybe, but maybe not. A thin layer of colored dross is fine, and the more you skim it, the more you'll get. Just get rid of the chunky crud and start pouring.

[clodhopper]

If your moulds are lee just stick em in the pot with the handles on use the handles to pull them back out. If you moulds are iron I would put them in the pot without the handles to insure thourogh drying. The heat from boiling water should dry any type out.
If I had to use another lube it would lee liquid alox, then a 50/50 beeswax alox type just because that's what I have.
Any of them in the cavities will bring many castings with poor fill out.
The bees wax mix will spread a long ways with heat

[exile]

Smelted another ten pounds today. Surprised how much I really enjoyed it. Surprised also at the lessons to be learned from it. I am glad I did not buy already smelted ingots after all (although I may still).

Also this morning my wife yelled at me for stealing an ice tea spoon from the drawer to get the dross out (even though I had the spoon before we got married and it does not belong to any set she has). Now I really feel a part of the brotherhood of the silver stream. :happy dance:

Thanks for all the advice. Even though I have been here awhile, I am finally getting started.

exile

P.S., turned down the heat today and got no blue or purple film on my lead.

[clodhopper]

No doubt it was her favorite spoon.

[exile]

No doubt,

exile :happy dance:

[Defcon-One]

No doubt it was her favorite spoon.

I think it was HIS favorite spoon!

If she is like my wife, her favorite spoon would be part of an expensive set or an irreplaceable family heirloom. Of course, the minute I take anything out to "ruin it" (her words) it becomes her favorite, so you might be right after all.

It is fun. I think it is becuase of the satisfaction of turning some old junk into something clean and shiny with an enhanced value. Also, it clears my mind from the daily grind.

Glad you took the plung and melted some lead. My first melt was in a small iron Lyman pot on the kitchen stove, way before I knew better. But I loved it then and still do now.

[exile]

Next question:

Cleaning a Lee mold, sprue plate on or off when cleaning in hot, soapy water? Thanks.

exile :happy dance:

[clodhopper]

I would leave the sprue plate on, your goal in cleaning/breaking in the mould is to get all the cutting lubricants out of the micrscopic pores of the mould.
These lubricants turn to gas as the mould is filled and cause poor fillout.
Seems almost like the heating/cooling cycle does some of this purging.
I have had some moulds where I cast 100 or more bad boolits, set it down, unplug the pot and walk away. Picking it up again a day or two later I start getting decent castings in ten or so.
If you can keep oils from the inside of the cavity, they seem to get better each time you use it, well for the first 3 or 4 sessions.

[10 ga]

Make fun of your pot? I don't even have a bottom pour. I use a ladle and have for years. Should see the smelting and casting stuff I've gotten from yard sales, the dump and cobbled up on my own. Only thing I have that I purchased retail was... Well the bic lighter and propane and that is only for casting, smelt with wood fire.(OK I got some molds from BRP a couple years ago but most have been swap forum buys) Oh yeah, My wife would like to claim I took some of "her" valued stuff but she just complains about me "wasting your time on this earth". Of course if I'm not hunting, fishing, trapping or casting I think I'm wasting my time! Retired and lovin it! 10 ga

[exile]

Cast my first boolits today, Lee TL 90 grain semi-wadcutter. Like you said poor fillout of the lube grooves and nose. Need to give it a better cleaning. Put them all back in the pot. The smelting goes on though.

As my fascination with this "hobby" goes on I'm sure I will pick up some good used stuff along the way.

I like this, like my Founding Fathers, I hope to continue casting, reading the Bible and struggling for freedom. Seems like a good fit to me.

exile:happy dance:

[clodhopper]

Just a coupe things, to clean your pot, when hot, gently tap it on a board to shake out the last remmnants of moulten lead, then brush out when cool.
It is said the heating element will last longer if you keep some lead in the pot, and cleaning is really not nessacary as you are fluxing every time the pot is used.
I have absoulty no negative comment on the small pot. I have one of those also.
Hopefully you have many years to aquire more tools, when you fire up the 20lb bottom pour, the six cavity moulds, and a seprate preheating pot, you lose the aura of artisan and become a production operator.

[exile]

I agree. There is a certain romance (if I can use that term in this context) of casting in a four pound pot set on a rusty COOP barrel with a mold I paid $ 19.50 for. The next mold I will try, (.358 gas check) I only paid $ 17.15 for. Thinking it might do better since it is a larger cavity, or maybe that is just wishful thinking?

exile :happy dance:

[a.squibload]

...Thanks for not making fun of my pot!

I used to smelt and cast from a quart-size enamel cookpot, your electric Lee is uptown!
Back then didn't know smelting and casting were supposed to be separate operations.

If you got yelled at by the wife you're making progress...

[Centaur 1]

I guess that I can finally admit it. I smelt with a Palmer hot pot that holds 4 lbs also. I've had it since the 70's and it works. It's slow but I can smelt while doing other things. My main source is range scrap so I fill it up and go do something else. I'll come back ten minutes or so later, and skim off the jackets. I use a muffin pan for ingots that weigh about 2 lbs each. I fill just one muffin and leave 2 lbs in the pot which helps melt the bullets that I add to it. At least I'll never pull out my back using a big heavy cast iron kettle. :mrgreen:

[Springfield]

Exile: pm me your address and I will send you a free sample of Bullplate. It is too good to be not using, really!

[exile]

Thanks so much Springfield, I sent them a check for two bottles last night.

Smelted again today, tried some casting again, using a larger cavity mold, (358 gas check mold) same issues, incomplete fill, rounded rather than sharp edges. Also some trouble getting cavities to fill to the top, I think my Lee ladle needs to be cleaned. Tried cleaning the mold with alcohol this time, guess I am going to have to use soap and water, which I really did not want to do. Seems to me that water and a mold would not be a good combination, but what do I know.

Man I thought the smelting would be the hard part. I guess you guys weren't kidding when you said (paraphrase) that casting was as much art as science. I will keep trying though.

exile :happy dance:

[R.M.]

Exile, how fast or slow are you filling. Too slow of a fill will cause you problems too.

[exile]

Probably too slow, as I am still somewhat skittish of molton lead. I will try to pick up the pace. Still fascinates me every time I get a clean pot full and pour it into the ingot mold though. Hope I never lose that sense of wonder. Reading the instructions that came with the mold last night it seems there are about 10 reasons for an incomplete fill. One said to try pouring on the edge of the sprue hold rather than directly into it. Think I will try that as well.

exile:happy dance:

[Echo]

I still have my old steel 4-lb Lee pot - use it to gather scrap boolits for recycling. Had it for over 40 years.

Don't worry about putting the mold w/handles in H2O. Hit it with Brake Cleaner, then make it a Christian setup (boil the he[[ out of it!), dry as best you can, set it on top of the pot, and it will be dry real soon.

Sounds like your alloy needs a little Sn sweetening - either that, or else you aren't casting hot enough. Not being a ladle caster, I can't give much more help.

[bumpo628]

If you're using the lee ladle, then the lead may be cooling down too quickly. I tried that one at first and had issues too. I switched to the rcbs cast iron ladle and it is much better. The cast iron holds the heat a lot longer than that little stamped steel ladle.

[exile]

Smelted again today. Smoked my mold, tried casting again, had the same results. I know I probably need to clean the mold real good, just too lazy to do it. May try the RCBS ladle too. :happy dance:

exile

[a.squibload]

... I am still somewhat skittish of molton lead.

Casting the other night, every time the wax flux ignited I would jump!
Spilled a few drops of the precious fluid.

No, I mean the lead. Unlike whiskey you can scrape it off the garage floor later.

[exile]

Amazing how precious that lead looks once it gets clean, you don't want to lose any of it.

exile:happy dance:

[wvmedic]

exile, the Wife and I did our first pour on Wednesday and had a blast. We used a 7.5 quart dutch oven and a Lyman Lead Dipper. The Lyman is cast also, it did real good. We did pour allot on the edge of the sprue hole, also made a little stream between the two when pouring the other cavity. It worked really well, also noticed sometimes when I was pouring that when I started a pour. I would hit the sprue plate between the cavities and the lead would run into both at the same time, this worked well also.

As for cleaning the mould, what I did was take a couple Q-tips with rubbing alcohol and swab out the cavities. Then before we started pouring I took a lighter and smoked the cavities real good, no problems with fill out. That is until we started having issues with the alignment of the mould, I thought it might have been an issue with needing to re-lube the alignment pins. Well I did re-lube the pins, however in doing so I got wax in the cavities. Then we started to have problems with fill out, so I re cleaned with the alcohol and no more fill out problems.

Any way, keep at it and enjoy.

Jeff

[Springfield]

exile: it isn't a dirty mould, it is probably just not hot enough. Dip it in the lead to pre-heat it if you have to.The last 3 Mihec moulds I bought I didn't even bother to clean them, just started casting. The hot lead burns out any oil in a hurry, and smokes the mold a bit so I don't have to. A hot mold almost always fills out well, cold ones never do. IMHO

[exile]

The Lee instructions say preheat the mold for 8 seconds. I gather that is not near long enough. So, how long should I preheat a Lee 2 cavity mold? From what I hear the aluminum molds have to get pretty hot and stay that way to be effective. I am just not experienced enough to move quick enough to keep them hot. I guess I will learn.

Thursday I went looking for wheel weights. Went to the place where I bought 2 sets of tires, NO. Went to the place where I bought my wife's car, NO. Went to the place where I have done maintenance on my car for the last 9 years, NO. Went to the place where my wife takes her car for maintenance, Maybe. I am just a little frustrated.

exile

[bumpo628]

The Lee instructions say preheat the mold for 8 seconds. I gather that is not near long enough. So, how long should I preheat a Lee 2 cavity mold? From what I hear the aluminum molds have to get pretty hot and stay that way to be effective. I am just not experienced enough to move quick enough to keep them hot. I guess I will learn.

Thursday I went looking for wheel weights. Went to the place where I bought 2 sets of tires, NO. Went to the place where I bought my wife's car, NO. Went to the place where I have done maintenance on my car for the last 9 years, NO. Went to the place where my wife takes her car for maintenance, Maybe. I am just a little frustrated.

exile

It took me a year to find a shop that would sell them to me. I just found it last week and I've already bought about 450 lbs from them. Try the smaller shops, particularly those that sell used tires. They seem to be the most likely to deal.

[exile]

As Chief Dan George said in "The Outlaw Josie Wales", [Smelters] "vow to endevour to persevere."

exile

[2wheelDuke]

The Lee instructions say preheat the mold for 8 seconds. I gather that is not near long enough. So, how long should I preheat a Lee 2 cavity mold? From what I hear the aluminum molds have to get pretty hot and stay that way to be effective. I am just not experienced enough to move quick enough to keep them hot. I guess I will learn.

Thursday I went looking for wheel weights. Went to the place where I bought 2 sets of tires, NO. Went to the place where I bought my wife's car, NO. Went to the place where I have done maintenance on my car for the last 9 years, NO. Went to the place where my wife takes her car for maintenance, Maybe. I am just a little frustrated.

exile

You'll know when you have the mold too hot. If you pour, and the sprue doesn't solidify and frost over within a few seconds, it's too hot. I know my Lee mold is too hot when the sprue takes a long time to cool, then when it is cool enough, the dropped boolits go flat like drop cookies when they hit the rag.

I give it a few more seconds before my next pour, or even press it briefly on a wet rag when it's that hot, but don't dilly-dally too long, because you want to keep it up to temperature when it's there.

And keep the faith in looking for wheel weights. I live in urban S. Florida and there's a ton of cars on the road and there must be hundreds of tire shops within 50 miles.

I must have been told no by at least 10 shops before I finally found one that'd deal with me. My scores aren't huge with them, usually a coffee can at a time, but it's only costing me a few bucks worth of cuban coffee each time I stop by.

[exile]

I thought about taking a six-pack of beer along with me, but I don't want to get some guy fired for drinking on the job. My best friend lives in South Florida. I used to go visit him quite often when I was in college (ninety dollar round trip plane ticket, sleep on the floor, live on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches) but then he got married and that came to a halt.

I appreciate the encouragement, seems like this will be a continual battle.

exile

[exile]

So now I'm really confused! Following the instructions that came with my Lee mold (I think) I have been setting aside the "shiny" wheelweights, due to the fact that they may contain zinc.

Now I see that someone on the site (no offense intended to that person, whoever he may be) is selling ingots smelted seperately that are either zinc or may contain zinc.

What should I be doing with my shiny wheelweights? Should I not be using them at all? Should I smelt them seperately? Should I be adding them in a little at a time to my other weights? If I am supposed to use them, what are they for? What are the pros or cons against using them or not using them?

So much to learn! Again, no offense intended to anyone on the site. Thanks.

exile :happy dance:

[clodhopper]

Try starting with your lead hotter, as in turning up the control knob, with the four pound capacity of your lead pot, the mould is sucking away some heat right at the start, your lead might be just a little to cool to pour right once you have the mould hot. You can back off the heat once you get going.
When I preheat a lee mould, with the mould and sprue plate closed I first dip the extended portion of the sprue plate in moulten lead untill the lead that solidifies in the steel plate falls off. Then I dip the mould blocks (closed into the melt as directed by Lee instructions.
The steel sprue is slower to equalize the heat across the entire plate, so I heat it first, while aluminum blocks heat uniformly and quiclky with just the corners of the blocks in the moulten lead.
Now after heating the blocks start casting quickly.

[a.squibload]

...The steel sprue is slower to equalize the heat across the entire plate, so I heat it first, while aluminum blocks heat uniformly and quiclky with just the corners of the blocks in the moulten lead...

Dang, why didn't I think of that? Will change my routine, thanks.
Trying to maintain mold temp but casting from a small pot.

Exile, "shiny" is not the only clue, try to dent the WWs with sidecutters, pliers, etc.
Zinc is really hard, lead will dent. Don't throw those away yet!
Other tests, search the forums, lots of info on detecting zinc WWs.

Some guys cast boolits and even cannonballs with zinc so it's useful, just
not so useful if it gets in your lead!

If you're sticking a steel pole in the ground, spot weld a zinc WW to it first for
a sacrificial anode (weld clip to pole for good electrical connection).

[exile]

Thanks guys. I may be ordering a Lee 10lb bottom pour pot in the next few days so that may help me to keep the mold temperature up to a satisfactory level.

exile:happy dance: