Argentine carbine value ?

[KYCaster]

Stopped at a pawn shop down the road and saw an Argentine Calvary Carbine and just can't seem to get it out of my head.

I've done a little bit of internet searching and can't find much in the way of current prices. A couple of examples on the auction sites have current bids of $150 to $200, but those are in pretty sorry shape and no telling where they will end up.

Found a guy who described one he got for $275 that had been refinished. He redid the stock, which turned out very well, but the metal looked to be pretty rough.

Anyway, this one has some issues with the wood. The toe of the stock has been poorly repaired with a piece of wood that doesn't come anywhere close to the original color. It also has a crack extending back from the tang about 1 1/2 in. (Has a reinforcing bolt through the wrist)

The metal though, looks very good. I'd say 90% or more of the original bluing. With the exception of the butt plate which is very badly pitted I can find no rust at all above the stock. The crown looks good, I can't see any cleaning rod wear at the muzzle and all the numbers match.

I didn't have a bore light available so all I can say about the bore is, it looks dark.

The price tag says $550 but this guy will generally deal a little bit.

Now, before you enablers jump on me for not bringing it home, let me tall ya...I just paid for my liability insurance, renewed my business licenses and put new tires on the service truck (it still needs brakes and ball joints) and cash is in VERY SHORT supply.

So do you think this guy is out of line...seems a bit high to me, but I've never really been tempted by an Argie till I picked this one up.

I checked Gun Parts Corp for a stock and they have them priced at $56, but OUT OF STOCK. I imagine they'll adjust the price when they get some in.

What do you think?

Jerry

[x101airborne]

1909's down here are in short supply and getting shorter. Most of these ranchers have used and abused them up till there are none left. And that corrosive ammo finished what the careess rancher started. Still, I think that anything around 500.00 is a bit high. This is my guess, but I would think a decent condition argie should / could be had for under 400.00. BUT, then again, I saw my first Turk 98 the other day for 299.99! Good shape, sure. But I remember buying them for 69.99 each and you pick from a crate of em. Aint what it used to be!

[357maximum]

If it is a true carbine and not a pseudo carbine made from a hacked off rifle it is worth about +- $275 as you describe it.

A true carbine in top notch shape with the crest intact ................then and only then would it be worth anywhere close to what he is asking.

[Ilwil]

There are two models of the cavalry and engineer carbine; the 1891 and the 1909. I think the 1909 is sturdier. Factors to consider are whether it is German made, or Argentine made, and some of the 1909s are Argentine made. Also, has the crest been ground off? They usually are on the 1891s. I also think $500.00 is too high unless it is German made, the crest hasn't been ground, and the carbine is in exceptional shape.

[KYCaster]

There are two models of the cavalry and engineer carbine; the 1891 and the 1909. I think the 1909 is sturdier. Factors to consider are whether it is German made, or Argentine made, and some of the 1909s are Argentine made. Also, has the crest been ground off? They usually are on the 1891s. I also think $500.00 is too high unless it is German made, the crest hasn't been ground, and the carbine is in exceptional shape.



Sorry, should have been more specific.

It's an 1891 cavalry carbine.....no bayonet lug.

Made by Lowe, so earlier than 1896.

Crest is intact. Crest, proof marks and lettering don't show any signs of polishing or refinish as far as I can see....but I'm no expert by a long shot.

Thanks for the comments. More opinions welcome.

I think I'll go back with a good bore light and a magnifying glass. If I can get him below $450 I'll probably put it on layaway. (and hope I can pay it off in 90 days)

Jerry


Edit to add........If it was cut down from a rifle then somebody went to a lot of trouble to make it look legitimate. Muzzle, crown and front sight/muzzle cap to stock fit looks very good to me.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The 1891 Engineers carbine that I bought last Summer at a large gunshop cost me, tax and out the door, $225. It had the wood refinished, the metal finish was original and syill held a lost of dark blue coloring. Only 1 part, floor plate, didn`t have the same number. It was made by Lowe in Berlin. So yes, $500 is a bit steep.Robert

[Uncle Grinch]

I also think a '91 Arg Carbine in good plus condition should run $250~$350 max, unless there is something very unique about it.

[Tom-ADC]

Can't recall the company name but the last Shotgun News I looked at a vendor had two different types for under $300 if memory serves me right. May not include complete bolt?
http://www.reconord.com/1891_Argentine_Mauser.html

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/9C6BFD0E97DDEBF/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/5561AB04090CE6E/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/9BCF2D538C49552/standard.jpg

...............I have one of the engineer's carbines. These were sure handy, and dare I say 'cute' little rifles? :-) Even have one of the Argentine Army carrying sleeves for it. The little scudder backs off a full load smartly, and a 185gr Lee at 1800 fps will lift the forend up off the rest[smilie=l:

...............Buckshot

[KYCaster]

http://www.fototime.com/9C6BFD0E97DDEBF/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/5561AB04090CE6E/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/9BCF2D538C49552/standard.jpg

...............I have one of the engineer's carbines. These were sure handy, and dare I say 'cute' little rifles? :-) Even have one of the Argentine Army carrying sleeves for it. The little scudder backs off a full load smartly, and a 185gr Lee at 1800 fps will lift the up off the rest[smilie=l:

...............Buckshot



Handy and "cute"....that's what attracted me to the one I found.

So......if you don't mind, would you care to put a value on yours just so I can compare it to the one I found? Other than the poor stock repair on the one I'm eying, yours looks to be in similar condition.

Thanks for your reply.

Jerry

Oh....one other thing....how do you see that leeeetle tiny notch in the rear sight? :shock:

[Buckshot]

Handy and "cute"....that's what attracted me to the one I found.

So......if you don't mind, would you care to put a value on yours just so I can compare it to the one I found? Other than the poor stock repair on the one I'm eying, yours looks to be in similar condition.

Thanks for your reply.

Jerry

Oh....one other thing....how do you see that leeeetle tiny notch in the rear sight? :shock:

...............I can't really put a realistic price on it as I haven't been paying attention to them. I paid $150 for this one but that was maybe 12 years ago so is immaterial. I'm sure you're wanting to shoot it and not just admire it in your gunsafe. I believe (personally) that $450 is too much and I'll bet he could drop $100 as I'm sure that $550 price was a 'Just in case' price. Like just in case some wild eye'd guy late to the whole milsurp thing came in :-)

After that wishfull $100 came off, it'd be dicker time. He'd still have wiggle room built into it. And since you're wanting to shoot it, it should be solid. Good barrel and crown with correct headspace. If mine was for sale, for a quick sale I'd ask $300 for it but would take $250.

...............Buckshot

[KYCaster]

Thanks for the reply Rick. I think your take on the situation is spot on. I'm sure he'll drop the first $100 easily...I'll just have to see what happens after that.

I hate to start dickering for something I want badly...I know I'll come out on the short end of the deal :groner: , but I've always been a sucker for cute little things. :oops:

Jerry

[Boz330]

Thanks for the reply Rick. I think your take on the situation is spot on. I'm sure he'll drop the first $100 easily...I'll just have to see what happens after that.

I hate to start dickering for something I want badly...I know I'll come out on the short end of the deal :groner: , but I've always been a sucker for cute little things. :oops:

Jerry

In that case I have a cute little 577-450 Martini Carbine you might be interested in. A handy little rifle for the deer woods, puts them down like Thor's hammer. It doesn't have that loooong bolt action so it is much handier.

Bob

[Ed in North Texas]

There are two models of the cavalry and engineer carbine; the 1891 and the 1909. I think the 1909 is sturdier.

The 1891 is an 1889/91 action (same action as the Belgian 1889, though there are lots of minor firearm variations in the Belgian model, with a barrel shroud being one of the most obvious). Strong enough, though not a terribly strong action when compared to the later 98 Mauser action.

You are correct that the Modelo 1909 is "sturdier", it is an 1898 action based rifle. I always thought it was a real shame that so many of these fine rifles were "re-chambered" and sold as .30-06 rifles. The 7.65x53 cartridge is a fine cartridge by itself, capable of .308 performance. In fact Norma produced ammo which far exceeded the performance Lyman and other manuals recommended loads for the '91 action - and did so with a load safe for the '91.