Smelting without a thermometer ???

[Mad Mucus]

G'day casters,

Ready to have a go at my first smelting(WWs).

I've had a Lyman thermometer on order for a while now but can't wait any longer... so how can I tell when the ideal melt temperature is reached before removing clips, fluxing etc. ?

Thanks

Mucus

[Harry Eales]

G'day casters,

Ready to have a go at my first smelting(WWs).

I've had a Lyman thermometer on order for a while now but can't wait any longer... so how can I tell when the ideal melt temperature is reached before removing clips, fluxing etc. ?

Thanks

Mucus


Marcus,

Once your lead or wheel weights have melted, give the lead (alloy) just a couple of minutes more heating, then skim off the dross, flux, skim again, and start casting.

Once your mould has warmed up to operating temperature and produces shiny un-wrinckled bullets, turn the heat down slightly. It doesn't take a lot of heat to maintain the temperature, once the lead/alloy has melted. If your bullets look crystaline on the surface your mixture is too hot.

A crystaline finish looks like the new galvanised finish on steel. Another guide to your metal being to hot, is that when you knock off the sprue, it takes with it a part of the bullet base, leaving a hollow. Don't throw these away, melt them down again and use a lower temperature in your melting pot.

I've cast lead bullets myself for over 45 years and have never owned a temperature gauge at all. Men have been casting bullets for centuries, temperature gauges have only been around for a few decades.

After a short time practicing, you will soon get the hang of it. Remember also that moulds can overheat, the guide to this, is the longer time it takes for the sprue to harden. If this happens, put the mould to one side for a few minutes to let it cool in the air. Never try and cool the mould using water, it will warp the blocks.

If you cast and the mould doesn't fill or you get the wrinkled bullets after casting over 20 bullets, it's likely your metal is not hot enough, so increase the heat a little, and try again.

Harry

[ron brooks]

The only problem not having a thermometer causing would be getting the pot too hot and causing any zinch weights too melt. i would suggest either not running wide open or being really sure of the weights you do smelt, if you are in doubt of some save them until you have a thermometer.

Ron

[BruceB]

"Never try and cool the mould using water, it will warp the blocks." -Harry

Now Harry, I've been water-cooling moulds for many years, and never warped a single one. These include aluminum and iron moulds of sizes up to the standard Lyman 4-cavity size.

Most of this cooling has involved just placing either the blocks or the sprue plate on a wet cloth pad, but on occasion I've also plunged an entire hot mould under water. All these moulds survived such treatment in perfect condition.

Have you ever warped a mould, yourself? I ask this because the majority of mine have come to me in used condition, and I have yet to see a warped set of blocks in at least a hundred moulds I either own or have owned. With the number of moulds I water-cool, I'm sure I would have seen this 'warping' by now, if it was a common occurrence.

My speed-casting method absolutely requires the use of a wet pad to cool sprues rapidly, and I wouldn't be doing it if I thought there was a likelihood of warping the mould. This might be one of the handloading taboos which everyone repeats, but which few have seen occurring in real life.

[felix]

It is weird to say the least. Warping comes from having the screws too tight with the handles. It seems the screws and handle steel twist and shout at a different temperature than the blocks, and this difference in temperature causes the mold to warp instead of the screws and handle metal because the mold material is softer. If both are allowed to move at their own rate upon heating, then it appears neither will hold a permanent stretch. ... felix

[montana_charlie]

I have seen one warped mould. It was one of the PGT loaners that went around the country for guys to try out. That mould would only touch on three corners.

I have always assumed that warping is caused by improper pre-heating while using a torch...especially a type of torch which uses fuel hotter than propane.
CM

[FISH4BUGS]

G'day casters,
Ready to have a go at my first smelting(WWs).
I've had a Lyman thermometer on order for a while now but can't wait any longer... so how can I tell when the ideal melt temperature is reached before removing clips, fluxing etc. ?
Thanks
Mucus
I just smelted another batch yesterday without a thermometer. The key is to get the heat just low enough to melt but not hot enough to melt zinc. Set your heat source (I use a 60,000 btu Hurricane Products propane burner and a large cast iron pot) just high enough to melt the lead. That will take some trial and error. The temp is not critical in smelting other than NOT too hot to melt the zinc.
Melt the first bunches in small batches until you build up a nice pool of molten lead. Add WW's in handfuls (say about 3 or 4 handfuls at a time - less if you pay attention closely) and stir them around. They will melt rather quickly, and skim immediately. If you are doing it right, you will get the zinc ones before they have a chance to melt. There ARE zinc ones.....unmarked ones at that! Keep the heat down to a minimum.....that is the trick.

[versifier]

Zinc weights are easy to spot - when you see clips floating free and there are still one or two weights that haven't melted, skim them all off. No big deal. Doing too many at a time and at too high a temperature can get you into trouble, but most of us are using Coleman stoves or turkey fryers that don't put out that much heat and relatively small (less than 2 gallon) cast iron posts or Dutch ovens. You can still process an awful lot of ww's in an afternoon, even with a small setup - not TONS, but hundreds of pounds. If you reach the point where you need to be processing tons, there are members here who have the smelting rigs to do it and will share their designs with you. But by that point, you will know and not need to ask. I generally clean out all of the trash (valve stems, cigarette butts, etc.) as I add them to the pot, (less smoke and obnoxious stench) and I pick out any obvious zinc weights then, but there are always a few that get by me and those I spot and skim as the good ones melt. It doesn't take long to get used to spotting them at the right time. I have never bothered with a thermometer when smelting or casting, never felt the need. I pay attention to what's going on during the smelting, not leave and do other things while the weights are melting down. When casting, the appearance of the boolits and how easily they are dropping from the mould tell me enough about how hot they are.

[RU shooter]

Not trying to hijack this thread ,But whats the deal with zinc ? Will something terribly bad happen when or if you melt one in with the regular lead WW Or will it just screw up the lead in the pot thats melted already and you have to discard that batch? What do you do if you melt one or three in your mix? can you skim it off or ? If you have alot of these zinc WW can you melt them seperately and cast them into bullets Sorry Boolits I'm still catching on!.........................RU

[mooman76]

Zink doesn't pour good bullets. It makes the lead not want to flow good so the bullets don't form out right and it only takes a little to screw up a batch!

[floodgate]

RU:

And yes, you can cast bullets from zinc, but they will be very light and hard; there was a lot of tinkering with "Kirksite" (a zinc alloy used for "pot metal" parts like carburetors) in the '40's by people chasing high-velocity for pistol and rifle rounds. Also, not only do traces of zinc prevent lead-based alloys from pouring and filling out freely, the opposite is also true: ANY trace of lead - even the use of a pot, ladle or mould that has EVER been used to cast lead - will "poison" zinc, and the bullets will eventually crumble into a crystalline powder; you have to "keep kosher" in your casting kitchen.

floodgate

[FISH4BUGS]

Zink doesn't pour good bullets. It makes the lead not want to flow good so the bullets don't form out right and it only takes a little to screw up a batch!

Just HOW MUCH will it take to screw up a batch? 1 zinc WW to 5 lbs of WW lead? 1 zinc WW to 10 lbs of WW lead? How much? Has anyone ACTUALLY figured this out?