The Rugers

[LAH]

Driving down to Va. tomorrow to shoot a few with a couple sixgunners. So while they were handy I snapped a few pictures.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Firearms/DSC00443b.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Firearms/DSC00446b.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Firearms/DSC00445b.jpg

[Richard_Otto]

What Caliber is the Fluted Bisley?

[LAH]

What Caliber is the Fluted Bisley?

45 Colt.

[Richard_Otto]

Nice, I have a fluted .41Mag Bisley. I prefer the look of the fluted cylinder on blued guns.

R.O.

[LAH]

Those 41s rule.

[white eagle]

just picked up a 45 c Bisley still waiting for it though
you have a nice looking family
what do ya have a couple 45's and a 44 ?

[MtGun44]

Some'a them hoglaigs got funny handles! :bigsmyl2:

Nice guns, sir.

Bill

[LAH]

just picked up a 45 c Bisley still waiting for it though
you have a nice looking family
what do ya have a couple 45's and a 44 ?

Top to bottom:
45 Colt
44 Mag
357 mag

[roverboy]

I'm gonna have a .45 Colt Bisley or Black Hawk someday.

[LAH]

I'm gonna have a .45 Colt Bisley or Black Hawk someday.

For the hard kicker I like the Bisley better.

[*Paladin*]

Nice looking trio of revolvers. I am not a huge fan of the looks of a Bisley, but I agree with LAH, they are much better for comfort in shooting warmer loads, IMO, over the SAA style grip.

[LAH]

My first 45 was a 4 5/8" BH. Those are fairly lite. If I moved my Keiths much above 900 fps the trigger guard began to bang my middle finger & the right side the trigger guard would scrape my trigger finger.

I attended the Noreaster the first year & had chance to shoot a couple Bisley Rugers & was sold.

[ktw]

My first 45 was a 4 5/8" BH. Those are fairly lite. If I moved my Keiths much above 900 fps the trigger guard began to bang my middle finger & the right side the trigger guard would scrape my trigger finger.

To touch on a couple of your recent threads...

My first single action was a 4 5/8, 45 Colt Blackhawk as well. Mine had a set of Pachmayer grips on it. I shot it quite a few years. Later I moved on to the smaller, SAA frame sized guns.

I always had the problem you described, too. Back then all I shot were Keiths, and I loaded them at 1200 fps because that was the thing to do. It hurt. About this time I met Lloyd Smale and looked at the size of his middle finger knuckle. Rather than man up and take the abuse, my solution was to start loading down into the 800-900 fps range. Moving on to the smaller framed guns reinforced that.

Eventually I tried 454190, a 250 grain round-flat bullet. It was astounding to me how much better that bullet flew true at longer ranges when started at moderate velocities than any of the Keiths I had ever tried. Based on my long range 'berm impact studies', if I were to park something the size of my truck broadside down at the 300 yard line I would have been hard pressed to hit it half of the time with my moderate velocity Keith loads but I could have put a 454190 through the drivers side window every single time. Same gun, same shooter, same sight picture, same day.

So I pretty much gave up on the Keith style bullet. Didn't work well for me in the 800-900 fps range, particularly for longer range plinking.

If you, or anyone else, has a successful formula for Keiths launched at 800-900fps I'm all ears, but as it stands I only consider them useful in the 1100-1300 fps game (knuckle busting territory).

-ktw

[LAH]

Keiths won't shoot slow? I hear this more & more. Let me say first I've not shot 100-200 yard groups with this type load except in the .357. The Lyman 358429 & 5.5 grs. of 231 will stack them pretty good.

On to the 45 Colt. My first one was really a 7 1/2" NM which I kept only a couple months & shot very little so I don't really count it as my first. It would shoot the RCBS 45-255-SWC & 9 grs. of Unique [Skeeters Load] into just over an inch at 25 yards. Like I said, the little sixgun was with me only a short time & I traded it for the short barrel mentioned above.

I've plinked at long range with slow Keiths with good results [I thought] but there is no substitute for putting them on paper.

[ktw]

Keiths won't shoot slow? I hear this more & more.

I don't know if they will or not. I do know I have had much better results with round flats in that velocity range, particularly when shooting out past 100 yards. I used to think I was just a lousy shot with a handgun. Since moving to the round-flats I learned I wasn't nearly as bad as I thought I was.

I have a S&W 38 Special revolver, no 357 Mags. I did borrow my father's Marlin Cowboy in 357 Mag for a while some time ago for some load development work. I did not have a lot of luck with 358429 (Lee 6 cavity group buy version) in either of those guns. As far as plain based bullets, the Lee 358-158-RF shot better, and the NOE 359640 shot far better, in either gun than 358429 did.

The only thing close to a Keith that does work for me is the RCBS 32-98-SWC in the 32 H&R, and that really isn't a Keith. In my experience, the 32-98-SWC shot better across a wide range of loads than the Catshooter 32-98-Keith group buy bullet did.

I still have several Keith molds. I still have a supply of Keith bullets cast up. I'd be happy to discover it's simply something I've been doing wrong. Until then I'm sticking with the round-flats and 640's for the sub 1000 fps loads.

-ktw

[LAH]

Well said ktw

[Bass Ackward]

This is why the old adage to always work your loads up at the range you want to shoot has been around. The first place that problems are going to show up is at longer range.

The more a bullet is damaged by the gun during the firing process, the harder you are going to have to make it, the faster you are either going to have to spin it or push it to get it to fly well and it will still go waco at some farther distance with a defect. Since you can't change twist rate, you have less options.

Or you can lessen the damage to the slug with a more gentle cone angle or correcting gun cylinder alignment.

If you can use your imagination, with every olgival or RFN, there is a semiwadcutter nose shape inside that has extra lead on the front to act as a guide and protect the front band so that it can perform it's function and rotate the cylinder and enter the bore square.

Opinions that result from success or failure on hard bullets, Keiths or any other semi wadcutter design is more a testament to today's gun quality for cast.